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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

What do you send to the cloud or your server?
Marvin Gentry, Photographer
Birmingham | AL | USA | Posted: 10:08 PM on 04.15.17
->> Ok backing up some files and sending them to my cloud service. Its unlimited but trying to figure out what does everyone keep?
Do you only keep what you select or do you keep 100% of your take?
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 10:37 PM on 04.15.17
->> Keep the photos you've taken on hard drives that YOU own and control.
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Marvin Gentry, Photographer
Birmingham | AL | USA | Posted: 11:47 PM on 04.15.17
->> I do that but I was thinking of using my unlimited storage space as an offsite backup. I have unlimited storage on photoshelter
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 12:16 PM on 04.16.17
->> Standard backup strategy is 3-2-1 -- three copies, two of them on different media, and one offsite. Using Photoshelter could qualify as two of the criteria. But just keep in mind what happened to Digital Railroad.

What is your other media? A RAID system like Drobo? Another media are DVDs but even they aren't permanent and susceptible to its technology being ended like floppy disks.

The only true non-destructive media that's left, in theory, is b/w film because the imagery is made of silver that won't deteriorate if done properly versus color like Ektachrome and Kodacolor that is essentially dye-based. If there is something very important that I want to last multiple lifetimes I shoot it on b/w film which is archivally processed and stored.

Now before you dismiss that strategy, think of this:
My uncle was a pro photographer before, during and after WWII and I now own his images. While the color film has aged and faded, his b/w is as good as the day it was shot -- some over 90 years ago.

In 2009 there was the 100th anniversary of the catholic cathedral in my city. I called asking what they were doing photographically for historical purposes and was told there was a time capsule box they were filling to be opened in another century that will be filled with documents and a DVD of pictures. When I asked if they were also going to include a laptop with DVD player, instruction book and explanation of what 110-volt AC power was, etc., the person on the line went silent because all that technology could very well cease to exist in a couple decades let alone 100 years away. I was hired to do the official photography that included a cardinal from Italy who presided. I did the official group portrait of all the religious dignitaries on 4x5 T-Max and made selenium toned FIBER-based prints. The 8x10 prints are in the time capsule along with the caption written on archival paper using a lead pencil because ink fades. A 16x20 print is in the arch-diocese office in an archive quality frame and another copy was sent to the Vatican for its archives. Being properly processed and toned they should still look crisp and clean 200+ years from now.

And for those important images that were shot digitally only, I make a high-grade inkjet print and then copy it onto b/w sheet film using polarized light for maximum clarity.

One more thing, DITTO to Jim about physical ownership and control.
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Marvin Gentry, Photographer
Birmingham | AL | USA | Posted: 7:29 PM on 04.16.17
->> Doug I understand what you are saying but more of the question I am wanting answered is. You shoot an event, you edit the event and get your keepers. Do you keep the complete take or only your selections?
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Gavin Werbeloff, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 8:57 PM on 04.16.17
->> In terms of keeping everything vs keeping selects, I like to keep everything. You never know when you're going to find a forgotten gem that might not have been relevant when you shot the assignment, but years down the road it could be. I'd hate to be in a position where I deleted an image that I wanted later. Additionally, I shoot all RAW and have Lightroom generate XMP sidecar files so edits can easily be recreated should something happen to the computer or Lightroom catalog.

As cloud storage has become so popular, I think a lot of photographers have struggled with how to integrate it into their workflows and backup plans. I know I have. The files are too big, and there are simply too many of them for me to just store them in the cloud. Moving them up and down is cumbersome, and while many ISP's have great download speeds, very few have the uploads speeds required to make cloud storage a viable primary option.

I've settled on using cloud storage as my "in case of disaster" plan. I have a RAID 1 array attached to my office computer where images are stored, and the connection is fast enough that I could edit off it if I wanted to. I have it set to sync to the Library folder on the computer overight while I'm asleep. I also have a RAID 1 array at home, which is connected to my router. It essentially functions as a NAS and is sync'd to my office RAID. It's not necessary and I just do it because I found the old RAID enclosure. That takes me to 5 copies of each image.

After each project is complete, I upload it to Amazon Prime Photos. The folder on Amazon is organized just like the library on my desktop computer. I upload the folder that contains the image files as well as the XMP sidecar files for the edited selects. I hope I never need to download the Amazon backup, it will mean that my office computer as well as my home have pretty much been destroyed.
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 8:57 PM on 04.16.17
->> I keep the entire take minus what is obviously out of focus for the simple reason you may not know what will be needed later on. It has happened on numerous occasions.

Here's a great example:
Back in the early days of digital photography the practice was to save what was used and delete the rest, and is still done today with some. This was practiced by the wire services and papers because hard drives were not cheap way back then nor were storage devices like Zip drives. (The first 96-meg CF memory cards were over $300. Now you get 64-gig cards for $35.) Then came a breaking story about Bill Clinton having a relationship with a young intern and there was an event where she was seen hugging the president while wearing a beret. Those who had shot digital that day did not keep their outtakes but one photographer who shot film did. He ended up licensing his hug photo for big, BIG bucks.

I have personally covered events where there was value afterwards from outtake frames. And with the very low cost hard drives today there is no reason not to save even when you're shooting 50-75 meg RAW files.

And here is a case in point from the last two weeks:
My uncle was a pro photographer before, during and after WWII. In the 1950s he was one of the founding photographers for the custom car show industry -- Autorama, World of Wheels, etc. He kept all his negatives, and I now own them. I was contacted by a magazine doing a historical story on a 1932 Ford coupe that was shown at a 1962 car show in Pittsburg. He originally published only three photos from that shoot. The magazine wanted everything. So I gave them a group discount for the entire take -- $950 -- which would have been only a fraction of that amount if he kept only what was used 45 years ago.

And I've made other deals with outtakes because the client wanted something different from what was previously published so they could claim the photo has "never been seen before" as a promo.

This all goes back to the old adage "better to have and not need it than to not have it and wish you did." With photos, outtakes can be highly profitable later on.
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 9:09 PM on 04.16.17
->> Bad math... what was used 55 years ago.
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Stanley Leary, Photographer, Photo Editor
Roswell | GA | | Posted: 6:31 PM on 05.05.17
->> Marvin

I think the simple answer is to keep anything you will need.

1) portfolio images
2) anything that client pays for that you can charge them later for when they call because they lost their copy.

Now for those Portfolio images I would keep the RAW and JPEG files.

Clients should be happy with you giving them the same quality you gave them the first time.

Through the years clients have called because they cannot find images. It is an easy way to provide that 2nd mile service and make some money.
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Thread Title: What do you send to the cloud or your server?
Thread Started By: Marvin Gentry
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