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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

How do you archive your images
David Rosenblum, Photographer
Jacksonville Beach | Fl | USA | Posted: 10:26 PM on 07.05.16
->> Hi all,

I swear there was a thread on here a while back about this but I can't find it.

What does everyone prefer when archiving their images?

Does anyone use a cloud to store archives, such as Amazon?

Thanks in advance.

DR
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Mike Janes, Photographer
Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 11:33 PM on 07.05.16
->> LaCie 20TB x2 in two different states. Used to use DROBO but can actually work off the LaCie unlike the DROBO. Also, PhotoShelter has unlimited storage now, can't beat that! Having your archive anywhere you go at the click of a log in!
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 11:42 PM on 07.05.16
->> Personally I would never use a service that was so very big that I was not known as an individual. I want and require serious customer serve and service that I can really trust.

I have used PhotoShelter since they started in business. I know both founders of the company and the CEO, personally. I know if I call or e-mail for support, I get a response from someone who likes actually knows about me. I know about the financial stability of the company and they hardware and geographic redundancies.

Go with an Amazon or some other huge operation and what you are is just a customer paying a cheap rate. Something goes wrong and they lose your archive or something else, all you are going to get is a "We apologize" and maybe a chance at suing them. Not eh way I am going to trust my professional work for myself or my clients.

In addition I use multiple hard drives backups of all my photos. All redundant. And by the way, LaCie has a history of lousy customer service and ruining many a photographers back ups. I am sure years back we had many a discussion here about LaCie as well as on other boards.
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 11:44 PM on 07.05.16
->> Sorry about the typos, never multi task lol
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Brad Mangin, Photographer
Pleasanton | CA | USA | Posted: 12:26 AM on 07.06.16
->> I can't say enough good things about PhotoShelter. I have been with them since the beginning and have over 89,000 images dating back to 1987 searchable in my online archive with them:

http://brad.photoshelter.com/search-page

I also use them for my super cool portfolio website:

http://www.manginphotography.com

Like Ian I know the founders and CEO and trust them with my entire business. That says a lot about them.

Best of luck with what you decide.
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David Rosenblum, Photographer
Jacksonville Beach | Fl | USA | Posted: 8:09 AM on 07.06.16
->> Thanks guys, I will look into Photoshelter. Seems to be a pretty trusted service.

Btw @Brad, loved the iPhone stuff at The Players this year. I'm probably a foot out of your frame to the left in the Jason Day trophy shot you took. :)

Clearly I was in the wrong spot.
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Stanley Leary, Photographer, Photo Editor
Roswell | GA | | Posted: 10:01 AM on 07.06.16
->> I use PhotoShelter and even have my clients using it as well.

Here is a blog post by PhotoShelter where I talk about it.

http://librisblog.photoshelter.com/case-study-meet-the-visual-asset-manager.../

I highly recommend every photographer use something and become familiar enough to help their clients to also do this with their collections.

Photographers need to solve all the problems they can for their clients when it comes to photography.
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:03 AM on 07.06.16
->> I use LaCie's at my home and also store duplicates in another state. For my archives, I use zenfolio.com. I have never had an issue with their customer service-I find them AMAZING. I have probably close to 170k images stored with them. ANYTIME I have emailed for support, I get a response within 20 minutes-even when I email at 3am! There have been times they have tried to explain things to me and I didn't understand and they have taken screenshots and numbered them in order to show me what I need to do.
For $140 yearly, I get unlimited storage and a few $$ extra now for RAW.


DLR
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Stanley Leary, Photographer, Photo Editor
Roswell | GA | | Posted: 10:44 AM on 07.06.16
->> For my offline database I use Cumulus Single user

I started using this in 1993 when a version was given with the Nikon Scanner.
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Doug Thompson, Photographer
Floyd | VA | | Posted: 10:51 AM on 07.06.16
->> I've used backup hard drives and double-protect by backup on a second DSL line that runs full-time backup of all photo and video to a web server I own and Photo Shelter. Currently have more than 300,000 images and 250 hours of video.

The biggest challenge of archiving is digitizing my film images from a career that started in 1962. I still have several boxes and negatives that need scanning and I try to work on those at least once a week but that schedule is not aways kept (too much CRS for an old fart).

I've wondered what has happened to the negatives and slides of images shot for others over the past half century. I've contacted some previous newspaper employers and some have assured me that they are somewhere "safe" and others don't know where an image I shot in, say, 1972, might be now. I have clippings and sometimes faded prints but nothing else.
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 12:23 PM on 07.23.16
->> I'm right in the middle of trying to find another portfolio site and there are some really good ones. I don't archive on-line, but I do love the image quality of Photoshelter. The back end is a bit hard to figure out, but so far it's been tremendous. Their customer service is very good!
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Tim Gangloff, Photographer
Knoxville | Tn | USA | Posted: 12:35 PM on 07.23.16
->> I use smugmug and have for almost 10 years...maybe not that long, but a very long time and have over a TB of images uploaded. Unlimited storage, sales store if you want that, etc. I'm not familiar with photoshelter and I'm sure they are really good, but the cost is about 2x that of smugmug ($45 vs $25 / month for high end plan), so maybe you can get by with something less that photoshelter. As you mentioned, Amazon has storage and I think it's free for Prime members, but I don't know what the limitations are. I highly recommend online/cloud backups as you can generally access them from anywhere you have a connection. One thing to look at is long term availability. Once you start using a company, it's very difficult to switch when you have tons of images.
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Frank Niemeir, Photographer
Woodstock | GA | usa | Posted: 4:12 PM on 07.23.16
->> Get the DAM book http://thedambook.com/

The author also posted some free Lightroom tutorials with videos at
http://shutha.org/lightroom_workflow_lesson_plan

You don't want to confuse archiving and storing with hosting.

Photoshelter gives you 100GB of cloud storage for $29.99 each month. Plus they offer other hosting and customer support.

Amazon S3 gives you 100GB of storage for $3.00 each month. But you also may be charged when retrieving files.

You can get you a 2T external hard drive that will cost you around a nickel ($.05) per G.
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Michael Granse, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 12:55 AM on 07.24.16
->> My images are stored on an array of hard drives at home and are also stored to Photoshelter. The number of bad things that would have to happen in order for my images to be lost is enough that losing the images would be the least of my problems.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 9:13 AM on 07.24.16
->> I use a Seagate 2GB and 4GB external portable USB Drives. I buy them when they are on Black Friday or Cyber Monday type sales. I've only had one Seagate fail in 10 years and I always upgrade when capacities and speed improve.

I currently have 5 backup copies of all images from the past 10 years plus images stored at no cost (unlimited) on Zenfolio. 4 backups are stored in a waterproof/fireproof safe that is bolted to the floor of my basement. The other is always near me (and secure) no matter where I am.

Like Mike G., if something happened, loosing all of my images would be the least of my problems. Very well put Mike Granse! Very well put!
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Stanley Leary, Photographer, Photo Editor
Roswell | GA | | Posted: 5:29 PM on 07.24.16
->> Everyone should know that hard drives and Memory cards require a charge to hold memory. If you let them stay unpowered for too long it is like buying new batteries that have sat on the shelf a long time.

Advantage of online storage is that it is powered.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 9:08 PM on 07.25.16
->> Dear Kevin Krows:

Thank you for contacting Seagate Support. I will be glad to answer your question for you.

The STDR2000100 and STDR4000100 do not need a charge to maintain memory.

Regards,

Brooklyn
Seagate Support


(The above referenced drives are 2TB & 4TB External USB Portable Drives that I use in my business)
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Tom Ewart, Photographer
Bentonville | AR | USA | Posted: 9:02 AM on 07.26.16
->> I'm not sure where Stanley got that info, and pretty sure the hard drive info is false if it is a traditional hard drive, but they can fail for other reasons. I have hard drives which are usually used in a write once type of configuration and everything is backed up to CD/DVD/Blu-Ray and stored in a large CD Binder and only used in case hard drive failure. I just hope my Optical Disks don't rely on a charge to hold memory or I'm in a heap of trouble.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 2:09 PM on 07.26.16
->> Dear Kevin,

I understand your concern. Memory cards are plug and play storage devices and all they need is a compatible environment and host device(Camera) to work with. Memory cards do not need any charging to store pictures.

Please reply to this email should you require further assistance. We are glad to help!

Best regards,
Evan G.
SanDisk® Global Customer Care
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 5:40 AM on 07.27.16
->> Now....back to David's original question regarding archiving.

First, archives consist of images that have been selected for permanent or long-term preservation on the grounds of their enduring value. Archiving is different than backing up as their primary objectives are different.

A backup is focused on restoring your computer system to a normal state in the event of a technical failure like an internal hard drive or system board. Backups rarely include archives as there size often exceeds the capacity of the backup drive.

Second, you should never rely on one source for archiving. You should, at minimum have two sources (Redundancy). How many more beyond that is dependent on how valuable the images are both now and in the future (even after you expire). Sale of archived images and prints, is almost 40% of my retail business so that's why I have multiple copies safely stored in multiple locations including on-line servers.

Third, anything can happen to your archives including those that are stored on-line. Consider recent hacks into in to carefully guarded computer systems connected to the internet (DNC, Department of Defense, Target, and others). If a sophisticated hacker really wanted to access and delete your on-line archive they could do it. We don't want to believe that's true nor do we want to believe that it would ever happen. I'm sure that's Debbie Wasserman Schultz thought as she was typing emails regarding Bernie Sanders.

Fourth, physical drives, regardless if they are internal or external, local or on on-line servers, will eventually fail or become technically outdated and need to be replaced. Do you wait for failure to happen, for the drives to reach 90% capacity, or for them to operate like a snail compared to current technology? No, you don't.

10 years ago, storage costs were very expensive. Today, by comparison, not only are drives larger and faster they are also a lot less expensive. My first external USB drives were USB 1.0 and 100GB and I paid $200 per drive. Today I use USB 3.0 4TB drives and recently paid $129 per drive. That's not even the most advanced technology either. The newest technology is USB 3.1 Solid State Drives that continue to get larger and will eventually start to decline in price to affordable levels. Simply put, there's no reason for you not to upgrade backup and archive drives as technology advances and costs continue to decline.

Finally, the most important part of a successful backup and archiving plan is the PLAN itself. It's not in your head ... it's on paper and stored in the same places you store your files. They are not random notes but rather instructions written to others on how they can restore computer systems and access your archived files. Forcing yourself to put these instructions on paper will also force you to give careful thought and consideration to the technology sources that will support your plan. As such, how you backup and archive your images will no longer be "random", "impulsive", or "reactive". It will be structured, well thought out, and proactive.

So David, do you have a written plan? Do you even know why archiving (for you) is important? If you got hit by the bus today, what would your images be worth? Who would use your archives to produce income from them? Would they know how to do that? What's your willingness to spend money to protect your valuable assets (your archive)? Are you looking for cheap and free or are you willing to pay more than you should just so you can say you use a particular brand of hardware or on-line service?

My hope is you are looking for a solution that's effective based on YOUR NEEDS, YOUR OJECTIVES, YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES, and the value you place on YOUR ARCHIVED FILES. Do your homework and make decisions based on FACTS. While Sportshooter is a good place to get some ideas on what others do, you shouldn't be taking advice from any of us including myself. Archiving is not a "one-size fits all" topic.
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Stanley Leary, Photographer, Photo Editor
Roswell | GA | | Posted: 8:18 AM on 07.28.16
->> Since so many folks come here other than just our members to learn, I want to pass along what I have been told through the years by computer experts.

The Rule of Three.

It's a long time computer-person rule of thumb that you can apply to your life now. It's also called the Backup 3-2-1 rule.

3 – copies of anything you care about. Let me explain why 3. As you are backing up your computer to your backup if there is a problem [lightning hits] then you will loose 2 copies at one time. This is why you need that 3rd source. When backing up you need one more that isn't being touched.

2 – different formats - Example: Dropbox+DVDs or Hard Drive+Memory Stick or CD+Crash Plan, or more

1 –off-site backup - If the house burns down, how will you get your memories back?
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Chuong Doan, Photographer
Kansas City | MO | USA | Posted: 12:53 PM on 07.28.16
->> I currently use both Amazon Prime (unlimited photo/jpg/raw backup) and Backblaze (unlimited everything- $50 year). Amazon is a manual backup process. You have to select the files you want to upload each time.
Backblaze runs in the background so you don't have to constantly update your backups.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 6:34 AM on 07.29.16
->> @Stanley - Don't recall that from my IT days. We did use the Grandfather-father-son backup scheme however which did include a provision for off site storage of backups. It's been 10 years since I left the industry so I'm sure that on-line storage is included somehow in that scheme.

I still contend that David's question was not about backups but rather archiving files for long term permanent storage. I see these as two different issues requiring two different strategies and methods based upon their primary objectives.

I agree that many folks come here other than just members to learn. They should understand that what they read, for the most part, are our opinions and thoughts based on personal experiences and should validate all of them with the experts themselves. When it was stated that, "Everyone should know that hard drives and Memory cards require a charge to hold memory.", I felt compelled to contact both Seagate Support and Sandisk Support for validation of that claim and posted their official responses.
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Stanley Leary, Photographer, Photo Editor
Roswell | GA | | Posted: 10:29 AM on 08.10.16
->> I do remember this from my IT days. The rule of three could easily include the cloud as one of those.

I do know that most reputable cloud systems use a similar method.

The rule of three is simply have it in three locations.
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Thread Title: How do you archive your images
Thread Started By: David Rosenblum
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