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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Screen Shots on Facebook, etc
Sam Santilli, Photographer, Photo Editor
Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 10:46 AM on 10.28.15
->> When you see one of your images...or many of them from an event....on Facebook with your watermark on them, what do you do? Do you send a message to the person, post something in the comments, or try to call them? Or do you just sigh and move on? Thanks, Sam
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 11:36 AM on 10.28.15
->> Send a take down order to Facebook saying the copyrighted photo is yours and being used without permission. Facebook will then have the person remove the image or freeze the person's account until it is.

Here's the link:
https://www.facebook.com/help/249141925204375
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Mike Janes, Photographer
Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 4:56 PM on 10.28.15
->> See them pretty much on a daily basis and frankly just do not care, they have a big watermark across the middle and appear just as they do on my website. I've gotten sales from parents seeing them, and honestly can use my time more wisely to make money than do the take down notices that will generate zero dollars. I don't even sigh anymore, half the time I'll "like" them. Of course it'd be a little different if they were using it to promote something, or was a business using them to do likewise, but that rarely happens. Just the player in the photo taking a screen grab and posting it, not a big deal to me anymore.
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Max Waugh, Photographer
Bothell | WA | USA | Posted: 5:22 PM on 10.29.15
->> Facebook will remove the photo if you file a report. Filing a report is a minor pain (and you need to provide an alternate link to another website showing "proof" that the image is yours), but Facebook's surprisingly good at removing stolen content quickly.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 8:31 AM on 10.30.15
->> I agree with Mike on this. Put a (BAW) Big Ass Watermark on it and then spend your time working on your business developing quality relationships with clients.
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Jim Pierce, Photographer
Waltham | MA | USA | Posted: 10:23 AM on 10.30.15
->> I see this all the time and it does not really bother me. If I sent Facebook e-mails to have these removed it would take me far too much time. In addition the people posting these know me well and this would have negative impact on my business as the "kids" that do this have parents that are my customers. I do have watermarks with my name all over them so everyone knows who took them, so some advertising is going on too.

Could not be bothered far too many more important things to work on.

Jim
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 11:43 PM on 10.30.15
->> I typically only do something about it if is is actually some kind of third party advertising. Simply, if there is a person or entity making money on my work and unauthorized, I will go all out. DMCA and messages and e-mails are immediate. Social Media sites will remove them following their DMCA process. Anything past that and I go right to the advice of my attorney whether it be billing or threat of litigation. I do not worry about "burning bridges" or their arguments or excuses.
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 1:26 PM on 11.01.15
->> Ditto what Kevin posted: "Put a (BAW) Big Ass Watermark on it and then spend your time working on your business developing quality relationships with clients."

You will be completely in awe how little of your images get screen grabbed and shared with a BAWdy watermark.

My advice is to treat your watermark like a marketing tool and at least include your URL. Go all out and put your email address or other contact info in the mark. No one will want to share it, with your name and contact info on it. If they do share it, you might generate some revenue or expand your brand to a new individual or group.

OTOH, you can use a different strategy and simply register everything you post to the web, hook up with IP attorney and go after every misuse. Just to tempt unauthorized use, don't watermark it and make the full res available. Likely one could generate more revenue from successful infringement collections than actual licensing ... lol
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Randy Sartin, Photographer, Assistant
Knoxville | TN | USA | Posted: 9:41 PM on 11.06.15
->> Guess I see this different. I thought Facebook was a place where you put stuff to share it.

Yeah, if it happens to be one of the very few images I create that is actually worth a crap, I'll watermark it. Other than that, if the local high school quarterback wants to grab it, I really don't give a crap. I'll comment on his image with a link to my blog or Facebook album, but it's really not a big deal to me.

Have a friend that uses the BAW technique, that seems to work for him pretty well but he spends a lot of time going after people that are photoshopping the BAW out. I teach photoshop to high school kids that can pull that out in like, well, 15 seconds.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 9:40 AM on 11.07.15
->> Randy - Then you don't know what a BAW really is.

- Use multiple solid colors (I use white/red/black)
- No opacity - 100% (Fully covers portions of the image)
- BIG Clunk of Mess - not a single line of text.
- Smack dab in the Middle - not in the corner.

Let's see your high school students Photoshop that out in 15 seconds.

The only images that are not watermarked on my site are those that are displayed on my portfolio slideshow. That's 30 out of 300,000 images. I can live with that. I leave plenty of room for paying clients to make out the subject matter, determine clarity / quality. But that's it.

On to taking care of clients that value my work.
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Mike Janes, Photographer
Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 11:08 AM on 11.07.15
->> If they can take out our watermark in 15 seconds, they deserve the photo! :D
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 6:06 AM on 11.08.15
->> I totally agree Mike. Totally!!

If you do find a someone that is pinching your images, there's nothing that says you have to continue taking more images of them in the future. Right??

NO SOUP FOR YOU!!! Come back one year!!
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Randy Sartin, Photographer, Assistant
Knoxville | TN | USA | Posted: 8:31 AM on 11.09.15
->> OK Kevin, you got me there...that is one BAW!!!
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Rick Hiebert, Photographer
Morden | Manitoba | Canada | Posted: 12:31 AM on 11.10.15
->> I'm with the majority here for sure. Solid color BAW right across the center (my business name)...no way they can recreate what's missing.
However, I've always been tempted to create a water mark that reads, "I stole this photo from (business name)", or some twist off that.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 5:11 AM on 11.10.15
->> Rick - RESIST THE TEMP ...Don't go there. It sends the wrong message to your honest customers and people that may want to hire you. You want to protect your copyright without being an overly protective jerk (OPJ). BAW and move forward with your business.
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Tim Cowie, Photographer, Photo Editor
Davidson | NC | USA | Posted: 4:05 PM on 11.10.15
->> I'm in the minority here, but I chase those that infringe. I have had reporters pay out of their own pocket because they used an image without permission and their paper wouldn't pay for it.

I realize Facebook/social media is a different animal, but people get something from me. If it's a good client, I tone the message down, but get it across.

Here's my take. We can't bitch about not getting paid our worth or bitch that people are stealing our images unless we are willing to call people on it. I feel if we let people do it, then we are creating a norm.

Small drop in a big pond, but feel that it is our duty to protect the business - what's left of it.
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Jack McCoy, Photographer
Baldwin | NY | USA | Posted: 5:32 PM on 11.10.15
->> Thanks for that Tim, was waiting for someone to have that stance. Couldn't agree with you more. In my situation there only has been less than a handful of instances that involved non-clients using photos (a couple with my BAW right on it). Was compensated each time after confronting them with it. Just ignoring it and moving on kind of goes against so much that is preached in our profession and on this site...no?
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Mike Janes, Photographer
Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 7:48 PM on 11.10.15
->> Actually saw that before Rick, however it was a link to the photo where instead of the photo showing up it was an image saying it was stolen from whoever the source was, along with how hot linking is not allowed.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 9:07 AM on 11.11.15
->> Tim / Jack:

Is your position more from an editorial or commercial use infringement? If so, I agree and so does my attorney who handles these issues for me and goes for the jugglers. These people should know better and they will pay dearly for the education if they don't.

However, I don't make it a practice chasing down a high or college school student who has pinched an image from my site. If I did, I wouldn't be able to take care of my customers and my reputation within the community circles would be mud.

FWIW .... I respect everyone's position on this as there is no right answer. You just need to pick the battles you can fight, win, and benefit from.
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Tim Cowie, Photographer, Photo Editor
Davidson | NC | USA | Posted: 9:18 AM on 11.11.15
->> Your high school and college student today will be editorial or commercial employees tomorrow.

We are creating a culture that makes it okay to steal. Then we get mad at them when they are adults and they do the same thing. It can be treated as an educational exercise if you wish. They understand plagiarism, but not copyright infringement.

How much time I spend on looking for improper use of images is one thing. A nice (or not so nice) cease and desist order takes 30 seconds. I almost always provide them with a cheap out to continue using the image.

If your customers and community can't understand that, then I think you have the wrong client base. If it's handled with tact, then it's usually not a problem.
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Michael Myers, Photographer
Miami | Florida | USA | Posted: 12:11 PM on 11.11.15
->> I guess I've got a unique viewpoint. I created an account on the facebook maybe 8 years ago, collected a zillion friends, of whom I knew maybe two or three, then decided I wanted nothing to do with the place. I haven't been on it in years, and refuse to get "sucked in" to what I think of as a quicksand trap. If I knew how, I'd delete my old account.

Are my photos there? Probably. Am I going to figure out how to use the place again, and somehow look for my photos? No way.

Regarding the comments up above, I long ago just decided to put watermarks on any photos I care about that are on-line, and if people want to steal them for posting on a social network, it's not worth my time to go after them. If they showed up elsewhere, I would probably feel differently, depending on where I found them.

Nowadays, I put my photos on Smugmug, which at least makes it a little more difficult for thieves to take them - but there is nothing I know of that prevents a "screen capture".
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Mike Janes, Photographer
Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 2:01 PM on 11.11.15
->> If photographers not spending time sending cease and desist notices to kids screen grabbing a photo for their Facebook is what teaches them to steal, then we have a much bigger problem in what they're not being taught in the programs that give them degrees to be tomorrows editorial and commercial photo buyers.
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Jack McCoy, Photographer
Baldwin | NY | USA | Posted: 2:52 PM on 11.11.15
->> Kevin, I don't think there should be any difference whether your position is from an editorial or commercial one...it's all the same if someone is using your photo without permission. Do I go looking for people using my images without my consent or compensation...no. Do I contact them and send them a note saying they need to pay for the images they are using without my consent if I happen to come across something or someone points out to me someone is using my image on their site blog etc...yes. And as Tim mentioned " I almost always provide them with a cheap out to continue using the image."
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Mike Janes, Photographer
Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 3:04 PM on 11.11.15
->> Jack, reading what Kevin wrote he seems to be saying that if someone is using it editorially or commercially then that's when he would go after them, he's not separating those two. Who he's not going after is the high school kid posting it to their social media page, as has been the main discussion.
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Bradley Leeb, Photographer
Champaign | IL | USA | Posted: 3:53 PM on 11.11.15
->> I know it's the exception to the rule, but I've had a good experience befriending a company using my image. I had previously taken an adversarial approach to my images being used but decided to take another approach one day. I discovered a start-up company that used an image of mine on Facebook that they had gotten from another client of their product in use. I contacted them and let them know I had taken the image and since they liked it, perhaps I could help them with their marketing by taking other images of their product in use.

Long story short, I've worked just a couple of weekends this year at events where their product was in use and done some on-site portraits, and as soon as some logistical obstacles are figured out, I'll soon be doing some product photos for them. In just those couple of weekends alone, I've netted over $5K from them this calendar year. Not to mention, the founder of the company and his staff (basically his family) are amazing people and I love working with them. I'd much rather have a great working relationship and the potential for a continuing income from them over the coming years than a one-time piddly compensation for one photo used on Facebook.
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Thread Title: Screen Shots on Facebook, etc
Thread Started By: Sam Santilli
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