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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Zenfolio Users
Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 6:36 PM on 08.05.15
->> For all of you that use Zenfolio for your websites and gallery hosting, what are your thoughts and opinions about some of the changes they have recently made?

1. E-commerce mobile functionality (without the use of a special mobile ap).

2. Increasing subscription fees on premium plans from $140/yr to $240/yr

3. Forced "configuration" button when clients order prints rather than a direct "add to cart". Customers now have to click 5 times just to add a single print to their carts now.

4. Overall site performance. Slow renderings of images, system errors generated by Zenfolio servers, and strange behavior for those using IE browsers (all versions) to view galleries.

BTW...I know that many of you don't host galleries or sell prints on-line. Others use to but stopped years ago. However, many of you still do and consider it to be a significant portion of your overall revenue stream.
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Jack McCoy, Photographer
Baldwin | NY | USA | Posted: 11:25 PM on 08.05.15
->> Number one: I'm not exactly following you Kevin. Customers can now purchase prints, photo products, etc. on their smart phone browsers, which has been long over due. Did I mention long over due?! Previously, not having this service created problems in regards to people complaining to me that they couldn't use their phones to order photos, meanwhile, at the time, they were not even aware that they didn't have the ability to order on their mobile devices.

Number two: if that price increase is true, that is a pretty big increase.

Number three: People should be forced to configure their photo before purchasing. I can't tell you how many times people have ordered photos and paid for them, and then ask me to crop/"fix" them.

Number four...have not had an issue with that whatsoever.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 6:56 AM on 08.06.15
->> 1. Mobile E-commerce (ability to BUY) - Yes,41 months to be exact. Just wanted to know folks thoughts. Mine are:

Previously the plan was to jam E-commerce-BUY functionality into a revised version their Photo Moments Mobile Application. I know this because a had several long email exchanges with a member of their development staff earlier this year (Evan Chung). I told him that most photographers were already happy with the mobile version and would never use the Photo Moments Ap (very few people like it or use it). The only thing that was missing from the mobile version was the ability for clients to BUY. Having clients download an ap from iTunes (et.al) was a horrible idea. So, instead, they used the PM App as a backbone for the BUY functionality through the mobile version of their clients web sites. This was a good call on behalf of the developers.

http://forums.zenfolio.com/discussion/15152/buy-option-only-in-photo-moment...

My only reservation is if the new BUY functionality is easy enough and the system stable enough for clients to actually use it to purchase prints. I've tried it and it's not as easy as some think it is.

2. Subscription prices were recently increased this week. They have said that this only applies to new accounts and that existing accounts would be locked in at their current rates for the plan they are enrolled in. However, if you upgrade or downgrade you will loose that rate lock. However, Zenfolio has made promises like this before and then changed their minds forcing new rates at renewal time for existing customers.

2 years ago their price for their Premium Plan was $100.00 per year. In 2014, they increased it to $140. Last week they increased it to $240. What was their reason? "To be competitive in the market."

https://secure.zenfolio.com/zf/signup/plans.aspx?_ga=1.99180502.911262089.1...

3. Forced Configuration (Cropping) - Personally, I've never been a fan of letting clients adjust crops. I believe it's the responsibility of the photographer to apply the proper crop to images (based on the print ratio) when filling orders.

Also, having the client take extra steps to "configure" their prints just slows the order process down. They use to be able to add a print to their shopping cart with 2 mouse clicks ... now it's 5.

Finally, Zenfolio has changed the crop tool. They use to have handles that could be used to adjust the crops. Now they use a zooming tool which is more confusing to use. They changed this tool because the crop handle tool was too hard to use on mobile devices.

http://forums.zenfolio.com/discussion/15493/dont-like-the-new-photo-crop-zo...

4. Overall Site Performance - Zenfolio has acknowledged that they are having problems with images being rendered quickly. Fact is, some users have reported that it takes hours before images are displayed in their galleries after they are uploaded (regardless of the number of images uploaded or their file sizes).

Also, Zenfolio's uploader has been crashing and displaying "lost connection" errors directly from the servers. It doesn't matter what browser you are using. The uploader simply is unstable and crashes. It's been that way for months.

Finally, people using Internet Explorer to make changes to their site (design changes, price sheet changes, etc.) are getting error messages directly from the Zenfolio servers - "An error has occurred. Please contact customer support."

These are just a few of the issues .... None of them have been resolved.

http://forums.zenfolio.com/discussion/15135/loading-images-for-preview-and-...

http://forums.zenfolio.com/discussion/15007/upload-failed-chrome-safari-the...


Believe me, I still think that Zenfolio is one of the best options for photographers looking for web hosting with a tightly integrated e-commerce and lab fulfillment via MPIX Pro and Millers. I do wish they had other labs as MPIX/MPIXPro/Millers are actually the same company and same lab. I don't like the fact that they have a monopoly on Zenfolio photographers and wish they would add a couple more labs like WHCC and Bay Photo.

Finally, the reason I started this thread was to get SS members, who use Zenfolio, to exchange thoughts and ideas as to what works and what doesn't work for them. Thought a thread like this might also be helpful resource to those SS members who are looking at Zenfolio for hosting and selling prints (both the good and the bad).
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Tim Cowie, Photographer, Photo Editor
Davidson | NC | USA | Posted: 12:11 PM on 08.06.15
->> I have 4 sites and haven't noticed any problems other than the previously mentioned occasional site issues.

Allowing customer to crop is fine, you can still set your parameters to "approve" photos before going to printer and adjust crops if necessary.
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 3:55 PM on 08.06.15
->> Does anyone know of any statistics of how often someone actually uses a cell phone (mobile device) to order a print from a web site? All this gnashing of teeth over mobile device functionality; just because you can do something doesn't mean people will or want to. Personally, I always order from my laptop, never from a mobile device. Not enough screen real estate to make an intelligent decision.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 4:48 PM on 08.06.15
->> I don't know how many times I have asked Mr. Google the same question. There are several "business use" studies most of which would support how you use your mobile device (viewing, research, and so on). I've never seen a credible study of "consumer use" behavior as of yet.

Don't get me wrong Mr. Hawkins, I'm in your camp on this one but I also said years ago that:

1. Email would never replace a letter delivered by the USPS.

2. Cells phones could never replace a land line.

3. You can't run a small business from the internet...you need bricks and mortar.

4. Who needs a data plan for their cell phone? Phones are for talking on.

I'm 55 but I feel like I'm 90 when it comes to predicting stuff like this.
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Doug Strickland, Photographer
Chattanooga | TN | USA | Posted: 4:52 PM on 08.06.15
->> Phil, I can't find any exact statistics for you but what I've been hearing generally is that a tremendous number of people now exclusively use mobile devices for internet access. They either prefer it (probably tablet users) or, more commonly, it is the only means they have of accessing the internet. I know that mobile viewers of our paper's web site have overtaken desktop users, but of course nobody is ordering things from us either. If mobile is the only way you access the internet, though, then it makes sense that you would also use it to order things.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 5:01 PM on 08.06.15
->> Tim --

What percentage of your clients actually use the crop tool?

Have you ever had to replace orders because you missed seeing the crop adjustment that a client made or didn't crop it exactly as they did?

How about a client making a crop adjustment that showed blank white space or a crop that simply was too tight. In cases like this, do you send the client an email...send a manual proof of the crop that will actually be applied.

Not trying to argue the point but would really like to know some of your "boots on the ground" experiences when things don't happen exactly as they should or what additional time you spend making crop adjustments for your clients.

Thanks
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 5:03 PM on 08.06.15
->> Doug -- I don't think that's what Phil is asking. He wants to know how many people actually use mobile devices to place orders which is WAY different than content gathering and viewing.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 5:09 PM on 08.06.15
->> "If mobile is the only way you access the internet, though, then it makes sense that you would also use it to order things."

Not sure I agree with your conclusion. Ok for us to disagree??
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 5:13 PM on 08.06.15
->> Tim -- Is you main website a Zenfolio site?

(btw...I've always enjoyed looking at your work. You have a good eyeball man)
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Tim Cowie, Photographer, Photo Editor
Davidson | NC | USA | Posted: 6:04 PM on 08.06.15
->> Kevin -

Thanks for the notes. My main site is Livebooks (which needs some serious updating btw). You can sell on Livebooks, but I don't use them for that - just portfolio.

Couldn't tell you the % of clients that use the crop - I think probably 50% of those that order pictures, also crop.

I have had to replace photos, but at worst, only a handful a year.

I do go in and correct crops if there is white space or if in general, they really cropped poorly (at least in my opinion). I don't inform the clients - very rarely is it a major change. Only once did I have to reprint a particular print - in the end, they needed to order a different size format.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 6:18 PM on 08.06.15
->> You said you had 4 Zenfolio sites. I can understand the reasoning behind maybe two (portfolio & E-commerce) but why 4 different sites? Are all 4 of the Zenfolio sites public or are they private sites that you simply direct clients to place orders?
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Tim Cowie, Photographer, Photo Editor
Davidson | NC | USA | Posted: 6:32 PM on 08.06.15
->> Individual sites for clients.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 7:09 PM on 08.06.15
->> Got it. I've often thought about letting my clients have their own sites and then charging them a fees to manage it and fill orders. This would be in addition to shooting fees already being charged.

So much of the success of print sales is dependent upon the AD who controls the communication pipeline to coaches, athletes, and parents. If the client owns the site, maybe it would be a greater priority for them including driving revenue for themselves. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 8:34 PM on 08.06.15
->> Doug said "...a tremendous number of people now exclusively use mobile devices for internet access."

Now for the hair-splitter; do they "access the internet" as a
1) hotspot to link a laptop
or
2) browsing on the phone itself.

I use mine for internet access as a hotspot every time I travel. To which mode of "mobile access" are they referring?
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 8:24 AM on 08.07.15
->> Here's a good study - Half way down the site you will see e-commerce Orders by Device

https://www.custora.com/pulse/device


Summary - 2015 vs 2014

Tablets 10% / 11%
Phones 17% / 11%
Desktop 72% / 78%

While desktop/laptop use for placing orders has declined and smartphones has increased, the vast majority of consumers use larger devices to place orders - tablets, desktops (and laptops).

I'm wondering if the larger smartphones (Now referred to as "Phablets"has had an impact on the increased use of phones. It also might explain the decline in tablets...you think??
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Osamu Chiba, Photographer
Vista | CA | USA | Posted: 7:51 PM on 08.07.15
->> I apologize my off-topic post in advance.

In case some of you don't know, Apple's policy does not allow you to sell any physical products or services in an iOS app. In our case, for example, you can not sell prints.

Yes, digital image files are okay. However, in my understanding, everything must be on iTune Store. Why? Because Apple wants *30%* from your sales, every single time. Outrageous, isn't it?

Assuming my understanding is correct, my event photography business model does not work. I mean, it's unrealistic to put all of my pix, a couple of 1000's / event, on their server. Even if they say okay, assigning a list of products to each pic is probably NOT in their thinking.

And that's where my iOS development stopped. Interestingly, it is technically possible to make an app just like a regular e-commerce site. I did that, but I knew Apple would reject that so I took the feature out.

Lastly, yes, all of iOS apps (and anything that goes to iTune Store, probably) must be approved by Apple. And they pay special attention to the apps that have the in-app purchase option.

O
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 7:10 AM on 08.08.15
->> No apologies needed. This is news to me.

Zenfolio's "Buy" option isn't an ap but rather a part of their feature that allows sites to scale to the device that is being used to view the photographers web sites. You have the option to turn this on or off. When they added the ability to "Buy" they used the link that puts you through to the same transactional server that they use with their Photo Moments Ap (but the ap does not need to be installed on the clients smart phone to make this happen.)

I'm not a developer but this is how it was explained to me by their technical support staff.

http://forums.zenfolio.com/discussion/15152/buy-option-only-in-photo-moment...
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 7:37 AM on 08.08.15
->> I'm trying my best to keep an open mind regarding technology particularly when it comes to how my clients access, view, and do business with me through my web site. As I have confessed, I have been very wrong in the past by underestimating the impact that technology has on our business and personal lives.

This past summer I even changed all of my printed marketing materials from business cards, note cards, stationary, etc. to better prepare myself. For example, my business card is now vertically oriented and includes my QR code that can be scanned by a mobile device to launch my web site.

I used the vertical orientation to make the scanning process less cumbersome since most smartphones and tablets are, themselves, vertically oriented. My first draft of my new business card was oriented horizontally. I handed some samples our to my family members and the first thing they did was fumble around with the card in their hand when trying to scan the QR code. My 22 year old daughter said, "This would be easier if the card was turned vertically."

Those of you that know me personally know that I'm somewhat anal about little details. However, in my 30+ years in business I have discovered that the smallest of details often are related to the biggest results or opportunities.
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Jack McCoy, Photographer
Baldwin | NY | USA | Posted: 12:17 PM on 08.08.15
->> My wife, who writes for a trade publication that focuses on mobile usage among businesses and consumers has data that says, "Up to 60% of consumers used mobile exclusively (no desktop no laptop) when making a purchase decision across the categories of telecomm, restaurants, auto and entertainment." This is from "The Third Annual Mobile Path-to-Purchase Report," from xAd and Telmetrics. Granted, this doesn't answer your exact question regarding actual print orders, but I know that the younger generation makes purchases on their mobile devices on a frequent basis compared to some of older people who might resort to making the purchase on their laptop.

In fact, in the same report, it said "Last year in 2014 10.6 billion on-line visits were made on a smartphone versus 5.8 billion made on a PC."

Meanwhile, when consumers are "purely shopping" online specifically, smartphones saw a 26% increase in usage from 2013. Another 29% of shoppers said smartphones were their most important shopping tool. This information came from the same source as above.

That said, with Zenfolio only adding mobile options last week it's a little bit mind blowing to me since they seem a little bit late to join the race.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 4:13 PM on 08.08.15
->> Does Smug Mug Pro, Photoshelter,or any other hosting service have e-commerce mobile sites?
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 4:30 PM on 08.08.15
->> Jack - Like the way you list your packages and show the discount savings %.

Does any one package sell better than others? I only have one for T&I work which is 2-5x7 and 1 - 8x10. I've never tried packages for events.
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Jack McCoy, Photographer
Baldwin | NY | USA | Posted: 3:11 PM on 08.09.15
->> Kevin, just checked the stats and my smallest package price wise, which includes 2-4x6's and 1-5x7, is selling almost two times as much as my other packages. Thats said however the packages are still way behind on the most commonly ordered products which are 4x6's, 5x7's 8x10's and digital downloads...in that order.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 6:34 AM on 08.10.15
->> It's interesting that you mention that. Last year I offered three packages (Good...Better...Best if you will). Regardless of the savings involved, my customers still seemed to cling to the single prints.

While the opinions of a few of my customers doesn't represent all of my customers, here are some of the observations I made:

1. Some customers found the process of ordering packages a challenge. Having to populate and configure the package with Zenfolio can be confusing to some.

2. Some customers are interested in saving every penny that they can regardless if there is greater value in a package for a few dollars more. For example, I had several people purchase two single 5x7's for a cost of $26 rather than buy a package that had two 5x7's and one 8x10 at $30. I sell an 8x10 for $20 so the value of the package is $56.00.

3. My sales of digital downloads is now my #3 selling item on my site. I only sell one size download ... 1800x1200 @300ppi for $20.00 and it's for personal use only. I've spent a considerable amount of time this past year promoting the value points of my personal use downloads. Two of those points .... immediately available for download and.... no shipping costs seem to be the points customers value most.

4. The more products I offer for sale, the more confused my customers get. In the past 2 years I have narrowed down my offerings to only those products that customers actually purchase and are easy to order.

Thanks for your willingness to share information regarding your sales experiences.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 8:08 AM on 08.10.15
->> For those that didn't know or those considering Zenfolio, here are 10 sideline notes you may be interested in:

1. Zenfolio was acquired by Art.com in 2012 by Art.com. Here's some info on their company:

http://corporate.art.com/aboutus/default.asp

2. Art.com recently hired Arnaud Collin, former eBay executive and photo industry leader, as Zenfolio's General Manager. This is the first time that Zenfolio has had a GM with a business background (sales and marketing) rather than a "application development" background. I see this move as a big plus for Zenfolio Photographers as their greatest growth opportunity is finding ways to increase the e-commerce business for photographers so they can charge 10-12% service fees against the sales. I'm good with that!!

3. In the past two years, Zenfolio has seen explosive growth in new accounts. However, the growth has been mainly from photographer's that have very little experience in photography and far less experience in business and running a web site. This may (or may not) be the reason why they recently increased the annual fees for e-commerce accounts by over 70%. SmugMug Pro did the same thing about 2 years ago. While this is only a guess, I do know that the growth of new, less experienced, photographers has placed an overwhelming demand on the Zenfolio support staff which limits their ability to take care of their more experienced accounts.

4. Zenfolio only has one relationship with a print lab - Miller's Lab. MPIX and MPIX Pro are simply marketing brands of theirs. All of their prints, however, are printed using the same equipment and papers. Zenfolio would like you to believe these are three different companies. This is one of the greatest weaknesses of Zenfolio as Millers has a monopoly on all Zenfolio accounts and charges prices that are much higher than their piers like WHCC, Bay Photo, Adorama Prints, or EZ Prints. I think the new Zenfolio General Manager will be addressing this shortly as he is scheduled to meet with Millers this month (according to inside sources).

5. Zenfolio is not a good solution for those photographers that are involved in editorial and commercial use licensing. They do not have a "rights managed" feature in their system and don't plan on developing one either. Photoshelter will most likely be the best solution for photographers that need that feature. BTW... I do find it interesting that Photoshelter has been a bit more aggressive trying to capture more of the e-commerce print business. Who knows, if they could iron out a few corners they just might have a better offering than Zenfolio. Photoshelter is certainly worth keeping an eye on.

6. Zenfolio's site uses Flash and the code that the entire program is written in is not up to todays standards. They have taken a lot of heat over this over the past several years. Here's a link I posted not too long ago in their forum .... but there are many more.
http://forums.zenfolio.com/discussion/15442/chrome-and-firefox-block-flash-...

Unofficially, I've been told that the Developers are working on a long-term solution so we may see a complete re-write in the next year or two.

7. Don't buy the Premium Business package. The Premium plan is plenty. Premium Business was designed specially for photography companies that have multiple photographers and need multiple user accounts (with custom administrative rights). There are some other features in the Premium Business Account like lower service fees. Crunch the numbers and you'll discover that you will need to drive a lot of additional business to justify the cost.

8. Zenfolios email support, training videos, webinars, and support documents are VERY GOOD! The only people who struggle are those that don't use these resources and rely only on the user forum for support (which is randomly monitored by Zen Support Staff).

9. There are better individual support staff than others. Not sure if they are higher ranking or more experienced but Peter, Adam, and Brian have always taken great care of me and given me straight information on any technical problems. They own your problem and dig for solutions until your problem is resolved and are great on follow-up. These guys are why I rate Zen #1 for service.

10. Finally, don't underestimate the power of Zenfolio when it comes to web design and features. It just takes time to learn all of the bells and whistles and design possibilities. If you want, there are several third parties that Zen can refer you to that can custom design your site for you and then hold your hand and teach you how to manage it. A little over a year ago, Zenfolio deployed a "Sand Box" feature to their site which allows you to redesign your site without publishing it until you are completely finished. It works great when you are developing your site yourself or when working with a third party.

Shari Warren of Warren Creative Design Services is a professional designer and illustrator that works with Zenfolio Photographers. I've not used her myself but she has a good reputation and seems to know her stuff pretty well. Her rates are reasonable based on the value she brings and the time you will save doing it yourself. If you don't value your own time or have an abundance of time for learning then you don't need her services.
http://www.zenfolio.com/zf/news/12-05-18a

Direct Link to her web site:
http://www.warrencreativedesign.com/services.html
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