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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

"Behind Photographs" Meets SI
Ben Krause, Photographer
Minneapolis | MN | United States | Posted: 5:38 PM on 10.06.14
->> Interesting, the photo concept used in this week's SI Leading Off about some NHL players looks really familiar to me as I'm sure it does to many others here as well. It's too bad Mr. Mantoani didn't have any involvement in this project at all. He seems intimately familiar with the concept.

http://victoriawill.tumblr.com/image/98964063712

"On the eve of the NHL season, SI asked some of hockey's biggest stars to pay tribute, in their own words and handwriting, to players from the past (and present) who meant the most to them."

I do suppose we're all at least somewhat inspired by the work of others. Sometimes that inspiration is a little more evident than other times.
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Christy Radecic, Photographer
San Diego | CA | | Posted: 7:25 PM on 10.06.14
->> Tim Mantoani's personal project "Behind Photographs" was a culmination of years of hard work, research, relationships and authenticity in Polaroid photography. This isn't just familiar, it's a direct rip off down to the effort to duplicate the framing.

I'm so saddened that the decision makers at SI clearly used the idea without even reaching out to Tim (personally confirmed) with their desire to copy his work. He should have been the first call on this project and if it was to go forward, he should have been the photographer to shoot the piece.

IMHO, the SI Leading Off spread is a huge disappointment and another inexcusable abuse of our rights as a creative photographic community.
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Jamie Sabau, Photographer
Columbus | OH | US | Posted: 9:37 AM on 10.07.14
->> Before you start laying blame on the "decision makers" at SI, you should be aware that it looks like the photos may be part of a larger campaign by the NHL involving video tributes as well (see them on the NHL Network). The NHL may not have been aware of Tim's work either, which could make this a huge coincidence as difficult as that may be to believe.
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Ben Krause, Photographer
Minneapolis | MN | United States | Posted: 10:27 AM on 10.07.14
->> Brad Smith, who is certainly a "decision maker" at SI, was at the photoshoot. He was instagramming behind the scenes photos of the shoot. I'm certain that Brad is aware of Tim's work and the resemblance that SI's Leading Off photos have to that work.

https://instagram.com/p/su8Xk2GVIL/
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Darrell Miho, Photographer
Los Angeles : SFO : HNL | CA | usa | Posted: 1:34 PM on 10.07.14
->> this is ludicrous. with no disrespect to Mantoani and the work he has done, the concept of shooting someone holding another photo is not a new concept. it's been done before and it will be done again.

should advertising agencies have contacted Irving Penn first (when he was still alive) every time they wanted to shoot an ad campaign on a gray or white background?

do we need to contact the Ansel Adams estate every time we want to take a black and white landscape photograph on a large format camera?

there are very few "new" ideas in photography. most photographs will have some similarity to other photographs taken by someone else. and while these photographs may be similar to Mr. Mantoani's, it's clearly not a new and original concept.

to call it a "rip off" is far-fetched. the lighting is clearly different and the framing is anything but special. can we not take vertical 3/4 length body shots on a dark background now just because someone else has done it before?

what made Mantoani's project special was that he used a 20x24 polaroid camera to capture images of photographers holding iconic photos that they had taken.
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Stew Milne, Photographer
Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 3:26 PM on 10.07.14
->> I think I need to patent the process of taking photos of someone holding a photo .
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Ben Krause, Photographer
Minneapolis | MN | United States | Posted: 4:16 PM on 10.07.14
->> I don't think anyone is trying to make an argument that what SI did is some kind of copyright infringement or anything of the sort. That's not the issue at all. Given the nearly exact similarities of Tim's work (Polaroid edging effect, hand written notes from the subject of the photo at the bottom of the photos, framing of the portraits, etc.) besides the technical elements used to create the images, like a 20" x 24" Polaroid camera, I thought Tim deserved some recognition for providing the inspiration of that photo shoot, that's all. How you feel about what SI did is up to you.
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Christy Radecic, Photographer
San Diego | CA | | Posted: 5:18 PM on 10.07.14
->> My thoughts exactly, Ben. There is no arguing that anyone owns the idea of taking a picture of a person holding a picture.

It's that you are directly using someones work and you didn't even think to make a courtesy phone call and ask Mr. Mantoani:

"What do you think if we try this in a spread with NHL players in our next issue of SI?"

https://server.christyradecic.com/screengrab.jpg
 This post is:  Informative (2) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Ben Krause, Photographer
Minneapolis | MN | United States | Posted: 6:21 PM on 10.07.14
->> That photo says it all, Christy. They used Tim's book as direct reference material while at the photo shoot as seen in that photo. The classy thing to do would have been to reach out to Tim to get his input or use him directly since what they were clearly trying to achieve was the "Tim Mantoani 'Behind Photographs' look".

That's just my opinion and while I have no influence whatsoever over what SI does, at the very least I just wanted to make sure that Tim received some recognition he deserved for creating the evident inspiration behind that photo shoot that appeared in print nationwide.
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 2:35 PM on 10.16.14
->> Very disappointing to see...
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Jason Myers, Photographer
Nashville | TN | USA | Posted: 3:39 PM on 10.18.14
->> Way to go peanut gallery..Sounds more like jealously in my opinion. If SI wanted Tim they would have called him. I'm a big fan of his work and projects but SI wanted Victoria who is a very talented photographer in her own right. I see more crying from these posts lately than the showcasing of new/interesting creative content. How about this, before condemning someone else for something that has nothing to do with you, do something we've never seen before. Don't be hypocrites.
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Ralph Mawyer, Photographer
San Antonio | TX | United States | Posted: 6:58 PM on 10.18.14
->> Ben K. >> "They used Tim's book as direct reference material while at the photo shoot as seen in that photo."

Agree, SI can use anyone they desire, but it does beg the question a bit as to why they used someone else, if they are trying to replicate his approach.

Probably not a message board post, but would be interested to know if any of the heavy hitters here have asked SI directly about their rationale.
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Thread Title: "Behind Photographs" Meets SI
Thread Started By: Ben Krause
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