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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Lens Testing? That's An Arrest...
Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 7:49 PM on 04.05.14
->> http://www.newschannel9.com/news/top-stories/stories/suspicious-photographe...
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 1:33 AM on 04.06.14
->> Well, first off...he wasn't arrested. Jim, Putting that in your header is no worse than the imbeciles who called the police. Yes, it's reprehensible this happened to this guy....but after all...it is Georgia, N.C., S.C., Miss., etc, etc, etc....
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 7:44 AM on 04.06.14
->> Only people in the south care about their kids?
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Mike Janes, Photographer
Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 10:09 AM on 04.06.14
->> This isn't about caring for your kids, it's about the overreaction of these people who didn't have the common sense or decency to just ask the guy who he was and what he was doing. I've been approached and asked who I was at youth events, very politely I may add, a few times when covering my local league at road games - most of the time they think you're from the paper, but couple times they've told me it's because parents were overreacting and instead of asking me themselves they went to the league staff who handled it correctly.

Been on the other end as well while coaching. Several times had to approach someone parents or I questioned, every single time it turned out to be absolutely nothing and always wondered why the parents didn't just ask the person themselves using their common sense. The one instance that sticks out the most can't imagine if did something like this instead of just asking who he was, which turned out to be one of my players grandparents! Yet had others worried and complaining because there was a "stranger" happily taking photos - people need to think.
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 1:01 PM on 04.06.14
->> It is unusually sad commentary on society when taking a photograph has become a precursor for suspected criminal activity.
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 1:11 PM on 04.06.14
->> Mike - Exactly. It's certainly not about the South.
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Michael Augustin, Photographer
Bensalem | PA | USA | Posted: 2:27 PM on 04.06.14
->> "Other than that, how did you like the lens...?
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 5:08 PM on 04.06.14
->> If a baseball commissioner is sending out emails to several people with photos of someone and calling the individual pictured a "potential child predator" yet has zero evidence to support said claim, not only could he create undue hysteria among the recipients of the email, but could he not also face a liable lawsuit from the person he's calling a potential child predator?
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Sam Santilli, Photographer, Photo Editor
Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 11:55 AM on 04.07.14
->> First, the photographer should have said hello to the coaches, told them he was just testing a new lens. Problem solved.
Second, a coach, parent, relative, league pres or officer, should have simply walked up and said hello, what ya doin? Problem solved.
Third, by the time the third tier TV station aired the story, the story was over. Was this even news? No child was threatened, no adult did anything wrong, or for that matter, anything pro active.
I work mainly in the youth market. For almost 20 years now. And I still introduce myself to to umpires, coaches, parents, etc, whenever I am at a new venue, or a visiting team is in town.
But we are dealing with a GWC, 'nuff said.
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Randy Sartin, Photographer, Assistant
Knoxville | TN | USA | Posted: 2:37 PM on 04.07.14
->> I'm so proud to be from Tennessee right now :)
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Al Goldis, Photographer
East Lansing | MI | USA | Posted: 3:08 PM on 04.07.14
->> Sam, really? You're supposed to introduce yourself and convince coaches you're no threat before you can take photos?!
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James Broome, Photographer
Tampa | FL | US | Posted: 3:11 PM on 04.07.14
->> Al - Not if you don't mind all the trouble this guy went through. Of course not.

We're not discussing what's legal and what isn't. We're talking about common sense. Yes, common sense instructs you to say 'hello' and introduce yourself if you're photographing 'for fun' in a new league or park. Especially in a case where no one knows who you are.
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 4:54 PM on 04.07.14
->> "You're supposed to introduce yourself and convince coaches you're no threat before you can take photos?"

There goes most of the pictures Cartier-Bresson ever took.
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Mike Janes, Photographer
Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 6:18 PM on 04.07.14
->> You're talking about a guy who is probably not used to attending events and figured what's the harm walking across the street in the community he lives and taking some photos of local kids to test out the new lens. It's extremely easy to say what you'd do as a seasoned professional that has been around the block a few times in these situations but that's not who you're dealing with. We're in a time where fear is king and common sense is on vacation, guy did nothing wrong and if this was a newspaper photographer who randomly stopped to get some shots for the paper many would probably be saying he doesn't have to introduce himself since he's just out doing his job. Sure, would have been the smart thing to do, but who expects something like this nonsense to happen?
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Sam Santilli, Photographer, Photo Editor
Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 8:18 AM on 04.08.14
->> Al, like James said.

Mike has it right:"who expects something like this nonsense to happen?"

All three elements of the event came together for the perfect storm of surrealism. GWC just shows up, league pres overreacts, local TV station reads social media to fill dead air on a slow news day.
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 11:04 AM on 04.08.14
->> "There goes most of the pictures Cartier-Bresson ever took."

I'm not sure which I find funnier about this statement: The implication that introducing yourself to the coaches will completely change how they and their players will act, or the idea of comparing an amateur photographer testing a new lens at a little league baseball game to Henri Cartier-Bresson.
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 12:14 PM on 04.08.14
->> Brad. You should really look at a large body of HCB's work. If you do you just might understand the statement.

Heck, you might even try going to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Cartier-Bresson or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candid_photography.
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N. Scott Trimble, Photo Editor, Photographer
Kirkland | wa | usa | Posted: 2:00 PM on 04.08.14
->> Thing is Jim, HCB tested his lenses on ponds of ducks, which typically only stop complaining when you feed them bread.


Also, the thing to remember, sad but true, is that media has changed the environment for us, feeding the masses on errant 'razzi photographers that pop out of Reese Witherspoon's drawers to get the latest photo of their kids, and whatever latest pervert does what to innocent children. we are in an uphill battle, and being forthcoming and congenial in this kind of situation helps, a air of entitlement to having a camera and doing whatever the Hell you want only digs the hole deeper.

I am willing to bet HCB was as good as he is because he knew how to read his environment and address it to melt in, not rake against it to stand out, and that is what you do when you pick a fight too quickly when approached.

This is not to say you cower down to every situation, but at the very least you be prepared to represent yourself intelligently even to those who aren't able to do the same themselves.
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 2:20 PM on 04.08.14
->> Right, Jim, because as a photojournalist for the last 17 years I've never studies the work of HCB.

I hear Robert Caps and Bill Eppridge have some great stuff, too.
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 2:20 PM on 04.08.14
->> *Capa
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Al Goldis, Photographer
East Lansing | MI | USA | Posted: 2:27 PM on 04.08.14
->> I'm well aware of the uphill battle we all face. Even as a legitimately accredited member of the media I have to deal with it on a regular basis. The whole "photography is a criminal act" attitude that is so pervasive today gets really old.

But here's the irony. Although I'm not a child predator (or terrorist) so I couldn't say for sure, it seems to me that the last thing child predators (or terrorists) would want to do is draw attention to themselves with big, professional camera equipment.
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 10:28 PM on 04.08.14
->> Brad, your "I'm not sure" statement suggest that you haven't looked at HCB's work.

Most of his most famous and most admired photos were candid photographs taken without the subject's knowledge and without their being forewarned. If you tell people before the fact the you're going to take their picture then, well, it ain't going to be candid, is it?

If you're happy taking set-up photos then you have fun with that.
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David Evertsen, Photographer
Orlando | Fl | USA | Posted: 11:34 PM on 04.08.14
->> I am sure that no one was worried about anyone holding up an iPad or tablet videoing the games. Helicopter parents should be worried about the folks sitting next to them, as a several of my LEO friends would say.. Not the guy standing out for everyone to notice..
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 12:02 PM on 04.09.14
->> Jim, your statement "If you tell people before the fact the you're going to take their picture then, well, it ain't going to be candid, is it?" uses broad brush strokes to paint a picture that is mostly unrealistic.

This is to say that just because someone knows their photo might be taken, or is being taken, that the photos are no longer candid. Your broad definition laughingly implies photographers need to hide in the bushes and be completely unknown to their subjects in order to obtain candid images.

There are situations where a photographer's presence changes the behavior of the subject for sure, but are you honestly going to tell me that Brad Mangin's photographs of professional athletes in action, Bill Eppridge's photographs of Bobby Kennedy or Aaron Huey's intimate images from the Pine Ridge Reservation (you'll probably have to look up that last one) are, as you put it, "set up" because the subjects knew their photos were being taken?

Please.
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 1:16 PM on 04.09.14
->> Brad, we're talking HCB's candid street photography, not sports-action photography, news photography or long term National Geographic assignments.

And yes, in each case, it's reasonable to think that the subject's foreknowledge of photographic coverage would influence the subject's behavior.

Athletes do lots of things because they know cameras are on them. You know that they do. Politicians often schedule campaign stops around "visuals". You should understand that as well.

If you're not just being a contrarian and really don't understand then I can only be sorry for you.

Boner.
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 5:40 PM on 04.09.14
->> Actually, Jim, what we're really talking about here is a guy with a new lens who is testing it out at a little league baseball game, so I highly doubt creating images a la Henri Cartier-Bresson was really his intent, so your point is moot. But for the sake of argument, would you consider the photographs on your member page candids? Most of your subjects clearly knew of your presence, so by your own definition, they are "set up."

And on another completely random note, did you actually just try and make a dig at my last name? I sure hope not, because it would be pretty embarrassing. I mean, really, I've got a pretty good sense of humor about it (one has to, right?), but c'mon, dude, I heard better shots in middle school. Considering your comments as a whole I'm sure you thought you were being clever, but in reality you've just proven you're no more creative than a seventh grader.
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Sam Santilli, Photographer, Photo Editor
Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 7:44 PM on 04.09.14
->> Jim vs Bradly...it's the Flint, MI Mega Bowl...the friggin' Mega Bowl! Saturday, 8pm. Jackie Moon will be officiating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0iF9HA7SJs
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 9:28 PM on 04.09.14
->> Bradley.

Thanks for having a look at my member's page.

Boner.
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James Broome, Photographer
Tampa | FL | US | Posted: 10:07 PM on 04.09.14
->> Your member's page. Heh.
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 11:41 PM on 04.09.14
->> Given the context, James gets a star for creativity.

Jim, not so much. He can't even spell my name right. Meh.
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 12:42 PM on 04.10.14
->> Boner?
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Andy Mitchell, Photographer, Assistant
Chattanooga | TN | USA | Posted: 12:46 AM on 04.11.14
->> I live about 20min from this park and have friends and relatives whose kids play there, and I have heard it all. I cover a rec park about 30min from this park and tonight was the first night I had been there since this issue. I have been questioned a few times by parents, but tonight I was questioned multiple times per game and fields. I have permission and pretty much everyone knows me, but I was on the T ball field(new parents)shooting and just got hammered with questions. I had one lady ask who I was, I told her I was with the park, and handed her a card. She then went to the concession stand and inquired about me and then called the park baseball president and asked about me, so I spent some time easing parents minds.
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Thread Title: Lens Testing? That's An Arrest...
Thread Started By: Jim Colburn
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