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Drone for Photos Runs Afoul of FAA
Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 10:12 PM on 03.19.14
->> "Exclusive footage from the Nationals’ quadcopter"
http://curlyw.mlblogs.com/2014/02/17/exclusive-footage-from-the-nationals-q.../


"Nationals In Hot Water Over Drones At Spring Training"
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2014/03/17/nationals-in-hot-water-over-drones.../
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 10:59 PM on 03.19.14
->> I thought there was a Fed ruling that scuttled the FAA on this…for now...
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 11:49 PM on 03.19.14
->> Scott...

A judge threw out the lawsuit against Pinker and the regulation against commercial flying. However, within 24 hours the FAA filed an appeal with the NTSB. That appeal also acted as an automatic stay of the judge's ruling. So everything is back to square one for the time being.
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Juerg Schreiter, Photographer
Fort Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 12:08 PM on 03.23.14
->> fire up your commercial drones for now

http://gigaom.com/2014/03/07/go-ahead-fire-up-your-commercial-drones-for-no.../
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Mike Isler, Photographer
New York | NY | US | Posted: 12:28 PM on 03.23.14
->> Juerg, your link is regarding the original ruling. As Doug mentions above, the FAA appealed that ruling, putting the drones' legality on hold again.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 1:09 AM on 03.24.14
->> It appears that at least one clearly commercial drone use is underway.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/18/drugstore-drone-san-francisco_n_49...
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor, Photographer
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 3:46 AM on 03.24.14
->> Eric, The court ruling referred to in the HuffPo story is the one that is currently stayed pending further court actions.

--Mark
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 12:16 PM on 06.22.14
->> http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NATIONAL_PARKS_DRONES?SITE=AP&SEC...
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Jeffrey Nycz, Photographer
Warsaw | IN | USA | Posted: 8:33 AM on 06.23.14
->> What federall statute would I be violating by commercial use of a drone? What if the business using drones is not-for-profit?
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 12:07 PM on 06.23.14
->> Reading between the lines. The park system sees a way to make money.

" Commercial operators like moviemakers can also apply for a permit to operate a drone, he said."

If you have the money and want to pony it up I'm sure you could fly a C-5 Galaxy at 100 feet above the ground.....
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 1:34 PM on 06.23.14
->> Jeffrey...

Your question appears general in nature versus what the national park service is looking at doing. I'll answer generically.

I'm currently involved in discussions with ASMP, NPPA and FAA over the use of drone/UAV technology as this is a new field that is definitely a business growth candidate. The wrench in all this is the FAA's definition of "commercial."

While from the media side editorial and commercial are different by their intended uses (news vs advertising), the FAA defines something being commercial if there is any sort of monetary compensation involved even if not directly.

Here are some examples from the FAA that I've been given and from other sources. If you use a UAV to do some aerial pictures of your home for posting on Facebook or your website that's fine; however, if you give any of those SAME photos to your real estate agent to use to sell your house then it is illegal because you'll eventually receive money for the sale of your home. If shoot a photo of an event on your day off and share prints with friends or those in the event that's fine; however, if you give the photos free of charge to the paper you work for that's illegal because your paper earns revenue from its newspaper sales and advertising that features your imagery. This is what happened with the Spokesman-Review. If you shoot aerials of a sports team practicing for fun that's fine; however, if the team uses the pictures/video during the regular season on its big screen that is viewed by "paying" fans then that is illegal. This is what happened with the Washington Nationals baseball team. If you use a UAV to make fantastic aerial scenics that you display in a free museum showing that's fine; however if the photos are for sale or the museum charges admission then that's illegal.

As to dealing with a non-profit that won't fly either. (pun intended) Being a non-profit is only an IRS categorization on how the company uses the revenue it generates. As such, because there is money involved even though not directly through the use of your aerial photos, that is what it makes the use of UAV imagery by the non-profit illegal in the eyes of the FAA.

As crazy as all this sounds on whether money is involved or not, that is the way the rules are. A federal judge struck down the money notion earlier this year as being nonsensical. However, unlike normal court proceedings where that judge or another must issue a stay to have the verdict put on hold, under NTSB rules all the FAA had to do was object and "ask" for the stay to have it automatically granted regardless if a judge objected or not. Thus, the current non-commercial policy remains in effect until the NTSB rules on the stay of which there is no time frame or deadline for it to do so. My guess is that nothing will be done since the FAA is in the progress of rewriting its own rules that are due out later this year. So right now it is a waiting game.

Can you go ahead and do aerial work and charge for it? Yes. However, there are consequences should you be caught just like if you decide to drive faster than the posted speed limit. The choice is yours.

Does this answer your question(s) for you?
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 5:51 PM on 06.24.14
->> Here's the link to a story today on the FAA's stance on drones versus model aircraft:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/06/faa-grounds-amazons-drone-delive.../

And here's the PDF link to the FAA's interpretation of its model aircraft rules from Monday:
http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/uas/media/model_aircraft_spec_rule.pdf

Without naming names, it clearly targets Amazon's plan and those of others who are looking at delivering packages via drones/UAVs.

It also gives a list of no-no's such as those I referred to in my previous post. One deals with agriculture. A farmer cannot use a drone to see if any of his/her crops need extra water, fertilizer, etc. when those crops are intended for sale. However, by FAA "commercial" reasoning you can use a drone to inspect the same fields for the same answers if you plan on eating all the food yourself.
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Jeffrey Nycz, Photographer
Warsaw | IN | USA | Posted: 8:13 PM on 06.24.14
->> Doug:

Outstanding. Thank you. I continue to build an aerial database of stills and video and should the opportunity present itself, decisions will need to be made. It's all very confusing but a tremendous opportunity for growth.

One could deal in a barter system but I'm sure the Feds would fall back on "something of value" being exchanged. Look forward to some type of ruling but realize it will more than likely be in the next year. In the meantime, I continue to acquire images and gain experience in flying. Traveling to Tehquamenon Falls in upper Michigan this weekend to image directly over the falls.

Thanks again for the explanation.
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 4:09 PM on 06.28.14
->> Portland co. defends drone accused of peeping
http://www.kgw.com/news/Local-company-causes-Seattle-drone-flap-skyris-imag...
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Alan Look, Photographer
Bloomington - Normal | IL | United States | Posted: 2:21 PM on 07.24.14
->> Not sure which of the Drone (UAV) threads this belongs in, but this one looks like it deals more with the legalities.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/executive-order-drone-privacy-barack-...
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 12:19 PM on 07.25.14
->> An employee of Amazon flew his drone up and around the Space Needle in Seattle, and allegedly hit a window with it.

http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2014/07/24/amazon-employee-allegedly-flies-dron.../
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 11:54 AM on 08.17.14
->> "Legislature mulls curbs on use of aerial drones by paparazzi"
http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-pol-drones-paparazzi-20140817-s...
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
Sycamore | IL | USA | Posted: 10:41 AM on 08.28.14
->> CNN has this drone footage of earthquake damage in Napa, Calif. I don't know if the drone was operated legally, but the footage is a pretty impressive example of how drones can be used by journalists.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2014/08/25/orig-drones-eye-view-of-eart...
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 7:32 PM on 08.28.14
->> Google is now testing UAV package delivery -- in Australia -- where government regulations are more friendly than the FAA's.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/google-drones-110430.html
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Mark Peters, Photographer
Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 8:58 PM on 08.28.14
->> http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/earthquake-broken-glass-drone-napa

It will be interesting to see where this goes - the person that posted to the drone footage of the earthquake damage apparently did so to drum up publicity for his drone photography business which he hopes to market to vineyards and to market the footage to business owners to assess damage.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 11:00 PM on 08.28.14
->> the FAA will lose this fight.
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 2:15 PM on 09.01.14
->> A TV station has reported that a student at the Univ. of Texas was taken into custody and had his drone seized when he was caught making aerial imagery of the college's opening football game.
http://kxan.com/2014/08/31/ut-police-investigating-drone-use-over-dkr/

The story states under Texas state law that making aerial images of property without the property owner's permission is against the law -- which is true. What the story didn't say is that one doesn't need permission to fly and photograph public property which the campus is since it is part of the state run system.

Here's the link to the state law on a website that follows drone use for those who want to do aerial photography in Texas.
http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/summary-and-analysis-of-the-texas-drone...
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Al Diaz, Photographer
Miami | Fl | USA | Posted: 11:30 PM on 09.02.14
->> FAA allows recreational drone demonstrations for first time ever at an air show & it's in Cleveland. http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/faa-allows-recreati...
I've seen drones used at:
-Miami Dolphins vs St. Louis Rams at Sun Life stadium, Miami
-Miami Dolphins Practice Field, Davie
-Miami Hurricanes vs Louisville Kentucky at Papa John's Stadium, Louisville
-World Golf Championships-Cadillac Championship in Doral
-Sony Open Tennis on Key Biscayne
-David Beckham tour of Kendall Soccer Park, Miami
Got buzzed by drone outside Russell Athletic Bowl in Orlando
No arrests that I'm aware of but apparently the quote is true,
"Don't Mess with Texas."
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 8:18 AM on 09.03.14
->> Drone runs afoul of angry ram (you can skip the first two minutes).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfLCb4ewDDc
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Troy Taormina, Photographer
Houston (Richmond) | Tx | USA | Posted: 6:45 PM on 09.11.14
->> Shooting the Texas A&M game last weekend, I was in the security update room before the game with all the officers that work the game. The issue of drones was brought up and the officer leading the meeting said (summarizing): 1. He talked to the County Judge who informed that they would prosecute if the drone has a camera attached. 2. If officers see a drone, they are to ask the person to land it and determine if there is a camera attached. 3. If no camera attached, no arrest. Don't know the legality of any of this- just passing along what I heard.
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Gene Boyars, Photographer
Manalapan | NJ | United States | Posted: 9:05 AM on 09.22.14
->> When I pulled into Met Life Stadium yesterday for the Giants game, I noticed a sign on the parking entrance booths forbidding the flying of model aircraft...no idea about the legalities of it but they don't want you doing it there...
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Kevin Novak, Photographer, Assistant
Panama City Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 10:14 AM on 09.22.14
->> Gene, it's private property, they can make whatever rules they deem necessary.
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Gene Boyars, Photographer
Manalapan | NJ | United States | Posted: 10:24 AM on 09.22.14
->> Kevin,

I am not so sure it is private property.....I would need to go back and look more carefully but I think the stadium, the race track and the arena are all owned and operated by the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority, a state of NJ agency.
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Kevin Novak, Photographer, Assistant
Panama City Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 5:31 PM on 09.22.14
->> I know in MD, the stadii (that should be a word, but it's not) were built under the auspices of the Maryland Stadium Authority a quasi-gov't agency. But they are considered private property for the setting of rules, etc (they were funded with lottery revenue).
Could be a whole different ballgame in NJ.
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Gene Boyars, Photographer
Manalapan | NJ | United States | Posted: 10:01 PM on 09.22.14
->> Everything is different in NJ.....and I will leave it at that Kevin. Bottom line is you better not be planning to fly a drone around Met Life Stadium. I was just surprised to see it posted at the entry to the parking lots
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 12:02 PM on 09.23.14
->> A man from Germany has been fined and banned for a year from Yellowstone National Park after a Phantom UAV he flew over a lake lost power, crashed and sank. A diver retrieved it for evidence.

http://www.9news.com/story/news/investigations/2014/09/22/drone-crash-yello.../
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Al Diaz, Photographer
Miami | Fl | USA | Posted: 6:12 PM on 09.25.14
->> Drones for moviemaking win FAA approval. http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article2239803.html#/tabPane=tabs-...
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
| | | Posted: 9:01 PM on 09.25.14
->> Now they have a pocket size drone

http://www.aericam.com/shop/anura-247-pocket-drone/
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Chris Parent, Photographer, Student/Intern
Baton Rouge | LA | United States | Posted: 12:38 AM on 09.26.14
->> There is an FAA ruling that forbids anyone without flight clearance from flying any drone, UAV, model aircraft (whatever you want to call it) in a three mile radius of a stadium (hosting NFL, MLB, NCAA FB, etc. with a capacity of over 30,000 people) from an hour before an event until an hour after the event ends.

To look up the rule, you can google "FDC 9/5151" it brings up the FAA ruling. As a note, it does say broadcast coverage, law enforcement, etc. can be cleared to fly.
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 5:52 PM on 10.15.14
->> California has passed and had signed by the guv an anti-drone, anti-paparazzi bill that makes shooting pix and selling them to the tabloids of people (ie celebs) who have an expectation of privacy subject to a hefty fine.

http://petapixel.com/2014/10/14/california-passes-law-banning-drones-protec.../
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Thread Title: Drone for Photos Runs Afoul of FAA
Thread Started By: Robert Hanashiro
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