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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

It's Been A Big Year
Gordon Haywood, Photographer
Perth | West Australia | Australia | Posted: 12:26 AM on 12.23.12
->> Have been very busy this year growing my business and shooting some awesome events.

http://flashpixx.zenfolio.com/blog/2012/12/2012-in-review
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Rob Carmell, Photographer
Yucaipa | CA | USA | Posted: 11:56 AM on 12.23.12
->> Gordon, this is an amazing group of images ! Glad to hear your year has been a good one. Happy New Year !
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Willis Glassgow, Photo Editor, Photographer
Florence | SC | USA | Posted: 2:30 PM on 12.23.12
->> I don't mean to sound like a scrooge here and not to rain on your parade there Gordon, but I've often wondered WHY so many people think that we should be interested in their portfolios and or recent work. Again, I don't mean to sound nasty, but honestly, and I can only guess what the others think, but I really don't care about what others are covering and shooting. Call me narcissistic, call me an asshole, call me whatever, I just don't care about folks who want to self promote themselves so much and fish for compliments. That's what spouses are for. Not message boards.
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Steven Mullensky, Photographer, Photo Editor
Port Townsend | WA. | USA | Posted: 4:03 PM on 12.23.12
->> Well Willis, you can decide not to look. And you do sound like a scrooge.
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 4:45 PM on 12.23.12
->> Willis, I couldn't disagree with you more. A tremendous amount can be learned by looking at other people's work. Is Gordon looking for validation? Probably. But what better place to do it than here? I think his wife is probably less qualified to judge or appreciate his work than the hundreds of professionals that reside here.
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Mark Sutton, Photographer
Herndon | VA | USA | Posted: 5:06 PM on 12.23.12
->> Hey Gordon those are nice. Keep up the GREAT work. Hope you have as much success in 2013 as you did this past year. Have a Happy New Years over there in Australia.
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 5:45 PM on 12.23.12
->> Looking at other photographers' work is something I enjoy a lot.
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
Atlanta | Ga | USA | Posted: 6:13 PM on 12.23.12
->> So I guess that makes you an asshole, Willis :o)
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 6:45 PM on 12.23.12
->> What a great subject; Who's opinion holds more water, your spouse or another professional? (And yes, I'm hijacking this thread, it needs it)

I vote your spouse. Why? He or she is an untrained eye, and just like the arborist who gets too close to the trees to see the forest, so does another professional sometimes.

I put more weight on what an average person non-photographer says. They give you their gut reaction. And that carries more weight many times than a "professional" opinion.
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PJ Heller, Photographer
Christchurch | NZ | NZ | Posted: 6:57 PM on 12.23.12
->> Well said, Phil.

Happy holidays to all.
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 7:03 PM on 12.23.12
->> ...and a MERRY CHRISTMAS to all! BTW, I'm sitting here in Yosemite watching it blizzard! (Put another log on the fire...)
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 7:04 PM on 12.23.12
->> I think what most of us are thinking is...if you're interested read and look.

If you're not, don't.

This is like the message board in general, if it's of interest read and comment. If it's not, stay away.
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
Atlanta | Ga | USA | Posted: 7:40 PM on 12.23.12
->> I've looked at my links put up on the message board that led to blogs, updated portfolios, etc. And many I have just clicked off of after glancing over them. But many I have examined closely because you can glean a lot of good ideas from the ideas of others. So I say do whatever works for you. I looked at Gordon's stuff and although I'm really not much into motorcycle racing, it was interesting to look at something different for a change.
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Will Powers, Photographer
Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 8:09 PM on 12.23.12
->> Like many "Yahoo" headlines, they draw you in to a dull story. I think the headline drew me in.

Looking at bad photographs does as much for a photographer as looking at Brad's work or Dustin Snipes portraits. It is good to critique other peoples work, not necessarily publicly.
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 9:27 PM on 12.23.12
->> Phil, that makes sense in theory but the reality is that if we let the general public choose the pictures of the year, they would consist of cute babies, cute animals and pretty sunsets. It's true that most people can judge a good picture from a bad one, but they probably can't tell you why. Here is an analogy. What do you think movie industry professionals covet more, an Oscar (voted on by their piers) or a People's Choice Award?
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 9:47 PM on 12.23.12
->> Well I know one guy in Florence, SC who's getting a lump of coal in his stocking this year.
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 9:49 PM on 12.23.12
->> PS -- Spouses are for compliments? Really!? I think I've been doing it wrong ...
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Gordon Haywood, Photographer
Perth | West Australia | Australia | Posted: 10:30 PM on 12.23.12
->> All I can say is thanks Willis. The traffic here has generated a huge click rate on my blog...
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 11:23 PM on 12.23.12
->> Oops. I meant peers, not piers.
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Gordon Haywood, Photographer
Perth | West Australia | Australia | Posted: 2:36 AM on 12.24.12
->> >> What a great subject; Who's opinion holds more water, your spouse or another professional? (And yes, I'm hijacking this thread, it needs it)

>>I vote your spouse. Why? He or she is an untrained eye, and just like the arborist who gets too close to the trees to see the forest, so does another professional sometimes.

>>I put more weight on what an average person non-photographer says. They give you their gut reaction. And that carries more weight many times than a "professional" opinion.

and for the opposite view... I value a trained eye in seeking an opinion. The spouse, or the untrained eye, might say.. gee that's nice, I like that photo. Ask them why and often you will get "I really like the colour of the... or I like the frame".

A trained eye will provide useful constructive review of the image. For me that is so much more valuable. I don't learn much from "it's nice"...
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Chet Gordon, Photographer
Newburgh | NY | | Posted: 8:13 AM on 12.24.12
->> Hey Gordon, Nice work. Great name too. "Cheers" & Happy Holidays, ~cg.
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Willis Glassgow, Photo Editor, Photographer
Florence | SC | USA | Posted: 9:05 AM on 12.24.12
->> Let me tell you all a quick little story. It's about humility. Many years ago, when I was still a pretty green photo journalist, I was sent to Sarajevo to cover the war. The war between the Bosnian Serbs and Muslims was still raging, but a winter cease fire had been agreed upon, even though there as sporadic shelling and sniper fire in the city. I was scared, excited, nervous and just about everything you can think of, dealing with all the things that city and time to throw at me.

I was to cover Ramadan and the Bosnian Muslim President Alija Izetbegović at the local mosque with the other photog in the agency. He was supposedly the inexperienced local shooter, while I was the more experienced, college educated American photog. I was even making more money than he. I was surely much better than he was......right?..... Well, we separated at the mosque and I started shooting the various things, but I couldn't get near to Izetbegovic because the crowd was so huge and they were just swarming around him. The service ended and I desperately trying to get something great as Izetbegović was leaving. I was near the back of the crowd when suddenly, Izetbegović turned to his right, instead of left where his car was. Even his body guards were shocked, He was walking right towards me and then down a small alley. I was the only photog there and I was backing up as fast as I could go, shooting along the way, getting every significant move he was making. After a few minutes, he quickly ducked into a small cafe to drink coffee. He body guards closed the cafe to anyone else and I wasn't able to shoot anymore. But I was thrilled. I had gotten something great and it was more important, it was exclusive. I ran back to the bureau (I was young then....LOL.) and started to process my film. I told the local guy, who was already back what had happened, he didn't say much, just said, "good". I thought to myself that he was probably jealous, cause I had only been there a few weeks and was already getting better stuff than he was. When my negs dried, I quickly brought them over to the light table and started going through them. Exactly as I wanted them to be. I thought they were great and I proudly showed them to the local guy and he said, "They are very good, Billy, but maybe we should compare to what I got too, just so the bureau in Frankfort is happy." I remember thinking, "Yeah right, sure pal.". Then I looked at his negatives.......they were a series of Izetbegović praying with the Imam with the crowd surrounding them. The were beautiful images and more importantly MUCH better than mine. It wasn't even close. The images were shot right before mine, by just a few minutes. I was totally deflated and humiliated. I thought I had "THE" shot, something great, but it was an illusion, my illusion. All I had was something mediocre, while the guy who wasn't supposed to be so good, the local guy, had something fantastic. He didn't have great equipment, nothing fancy, a simple 35mm body with a couple of lenses. He just knew where to go, how to get there. It's called experience. I had none of that that day. He saw my dejection and said, "Don't worry, We"ll send out a few of yours too, and Frankfort will be happy." He was a man a few words. But he knew what was going on. He images that day were picked up by dozens of newspapers around the world. Not one of mine were ever picked up by any publication.

I guess what I learned that day and what point I was trying to make is, when you put yourself and your work out there for other people to judge, especially your peers, you might not get the result you thought you would. Will you really get their real opinion?, or will you get the watered down versions?, because they don't want to deflate you and possibly humiliate you. I learned that day to act with humility and only show my work to people with whom I trust and whose opinions really matters.....professionally speaking that is. Because, just when you think you did something great, you get blind sided by something better.

Gordon, If you read my original post, you'll see I did NOT critique your work. What I think doesn't matter anyway. You're a professional photog and you're there to make money and to make your clients happy. If your clients love your work and think you are the best photog in the world. Guess what, you're the best photog in the world. Because their opinion is the only one that matters, because they're the ones that are paying you, not any of us.
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Willis Glassgow, Photo Editor, Photographer
Florence | SC | USA | Posted: 9:38 AM on 12.24.12
->> Oh...and one more thing......You're wife's opinion is ALWAYS more important than any of ours. WHY?.......because she loves you. We don't.....LOL. Merry Christmas!
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 11:34 AM on 12.24.12
->> Ah, but Willis...you'd have learned nothing from that story if you hadn't looked at the work of another photographer, now would you? :)
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Willis Glassgow, Photo Editor, Photographer
Florence | SC | USA | Posted: 11:39 AM on 12.24.12
->> LOL.....exactly.....but it wasn't on a public message board.
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Willis Glassgow, Photo Editor, Photographer
Florence | SC | USA | Posted: 11:44 AM on 12.24.12
->> On a public message board, people aren;t really telling you what they really think. It's watered down and often politically correct. Many people are hesitant to state what they really think for fear of being ridiculed themselves for possibly being too harsh, or possibly just telling the truth. Who does this benefit?.....no one. The best way of getting others opinion is with one on ones with other photogs and one that preferably know what they are talking about.......LOL
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Timothy Andrews, Photographer
Pearl Harbor | Hi | USA | Posted: 2:51 PM on 12.24.12
->> Well, Willis, while you're right on the surface, if there's one thing I've learned about the SS forum, it's that if someone has an opinion regarding something you've posted and they don't want it to be public, they WILL send you an email.

Additionally, there are about 12 people that took the time to post on here, but I'm willing to bet that far more have read it. Not only does that give them the opportunity to see Gordon's work (outside of his profile page), but if anyone does leave an honest critique (which, I'll admit, almost never happens on here), not only does Gordon learn something, but so does everyone else that takes the time to view this thread. So, honestly, this should be a call to those seasoned shooters out there to leave honest critiques when requested on this board instead of stroking egos; we all learn more that way.

Just my $.02.
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Paul Hayes, Photographer, Photo Editor
Littleton | NH | USA | Posted: 2:55 PM on 12.24.12
->> I just want to say, regardless of every other post in this bizarre thread, and regardless of Willis weighing in with unsolicited (and relentlessly negative) advice, I think his opus post on his Bosnian experience should be required reading. Especially if you are just getting started. I've found myself in this position many times and I think I'm a better photographer and person for it.

That being said, regarding Mr. Glassgow's original criticism, I just have one thing to say, which I am *shocked* no one has said yet in this crazy, meandering thread:

"What you talkin' 'bout, Willis?"
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 2:58 PM on 12.24.12
->> Willis, you said: "On a public message board, people aren;t really telling you what they really think. It's watered down and often politically correct."

Are you sure you've been reading THIS board?
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Willis Glassgow, Photo Editor, Photographer
Florence | SC | USA | Posted: 4:13 PM on 12.24.12
->> LOL.....to both Brian and Paul.....those posts were funny.
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 4:41 PM on 12.24.12
->> "Let me tell you all a quick little story. It's about humility"

Then Willis goes to tell a story about covering the war in Sarajevo...

Hey Scrooge McDuck! Lighten up!

Smile at your spouse and kids if you have them and get a few smiles back in return! Throw a stick and watch your dog chase it and return it to you with nothing but admiration in its eyes! Be happy that you're not living in extreme poverty in some third world nation watching your friends and neighbors starve to death!

Thank whoever or whatever you worship that you're not married to Newt Gingrich!

Look at the damn pictures and he happy you have an Internet connection that lets you bitch about them in "public"!

And have a very happy New Year... Really... :-)
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 5:39 PM on 12.24.12
->> " ... when you put yourself and your work out there for other people to judge, especially your peers, you might not get the result you thought you would. Will you really get their real opinion?"

You will now. Just looked at your member page ...

- Dude, it's called the "Crop Tool" and it's your friend. Get to know each other.

- Captions, cutlines -- whatever you choose to call them, they're important.

- Leave the fisheye at home next time. In fact, don't touch it ever again until someone teaches you how to use one properly.

- Photo #7. Nice moment. Too bad about the ref. Why even show this, anyway?

- And lastly, my favorite, Photo #4 is sideways. Sideways!!

I realize it's been 251 days since your last update, but by using the logic you provided above, it's the most recent work you chose to put "out there" ... at least on here. Maybe there's better work on your site. I don't know. Based on the 10 photos on your member page gallery, I'm not all that inclined to see for myself.

So if you have room to learn anything else right now, try this one of for size: any time you want to be an asshole on the Internet, just remember there's always gonna be a bigger asshole out there, ready to opine … just like this guy.

[points to self]

Willis -- glad you had a good year. Hoping 2013 follows suit.

Happy Holidays everyone.

- gerry -
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 5:44 PM on 12.24.12
->> "What you talkin' 'bout, Willis?" How's that?

I hate for professionals to critique my portraits... I actually had somebody ream me for cutting off the feet. Say what? Or a stray hair, or cutting off the top of the head (which I will do for effect sometimes) or some such trivial thing... I've been blasted for not having detail in the hair, floating heads, etc. Meanwhile the clients were in tears they loved it so much. Who do you believe?
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David Royal, Photographer, Assistant
Monterey Bay | CA | USA | Posted: 6:28 PM on 12.24.12
->> Thanks for sharing Gordon!

I am on here to look at others work!

Great update by the way Bert!

Happy Holidays!

-Royal

PS: please take a look at my years favorites if you are so inclined!
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Willis Glassgow, Photo Editor, Photographer
Florence | SC | USA | Posted: 7:52 PM on 12.24.12
->> GJ......You have to remember something. I never asked for your critique. I mean you're free to give it, and I even read it and I certainly can't say you're wrong. You might be a very good photographer, maybe even better than me. But again, exactly what I stated before to Gordon, the only opinion that really matters is my clients. When my clients are happy with my work, then all is well. I stopped worrying about my peers opinions/critiques many moons ago my friend. So, I really never have to worry about what people say about me or my work. It just becomes unimportant after a time. That's what happens when you start getting older. The criticism just rolls right off you and it just doesn't matter. It's sort of like awards, they are wonderful and when you win an award, it feels great. right?.....Well, what happens when you don't win?.......Are you any less of a photographer, did you suddenly become a bad photog?......Probably not. This is the same thing. Do we need constant validation to make ourselves worthy?.....or are we strong to go on without?
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Mark Sutton, Photographer
Herndon | VA | USA | Posted: 8:50 PM on 12.24.12
->> You know the first thing I do when I read a distasteful comment is to check out the member page to see if this person even has the swag to even post a rude comment in the first place. I often refer to this rude individual as being a “Gangster behind a computer” because I guarantee you if this individual was in the same press box things would be handled a little different.

I made the “Gangster” statement on another thread a few weeks ago.

With that said another member tried to give my comment some swag by calling it “Gangstas”, but I wasn’t trying to give that statement or these type of individuals any swag or complement. I was purely stating that these individuals hide behind their computers and act like Gangsters.

Now, another member followed with a post that included this statement at the bottom “The 'gangstas' here are the one's who really care. They may knock you down, but if you keep getting back up and looking them in the eye, you will not only get better faster, but earn their respect, too.”

You see those types of individuals have swag, they are what I call the OG’s on this site. The “Original Gangstas” because they may slap you around a bit, but their message is loud and clear and is not meant to demean you in anyway.

Clark Brooks, he’s an OG in my books. Chuck Liddy, he’s an OG in my books. Bert Hanashiro, he’s an OG in my books. The list could go on-and-on, but what G.J. McCarthy posted earlier was OG material son.

To me the original post on this thread was not asking for anyone’s opinion or critique it was just simply asking people to view his site and the work he did this past year. I for one am not familiar with Gordon Heywood or his work and he has done nothing different then any of the heavy hitters have done on here if they want you to see something they’ve done.

My question to you is if Peter Read Miller or Brad Mangin or Bert Hanashiro posted something similar would you have been so RUDE?

Merry Christmas everybody and PLEASE be safe in all your travels.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 9:32 PM on 12.24.12
->> Okay. It's Christmas Eve. I've been reading this post...and had just not responded. Been having a wonderful time with my family....and tons of jokes about being the "family documentarian" ....so I just got back online and saw this stuff. Willis, if anyone was more off base in a thread it is you. This is a professional site for PROFESSIONALS to SHARE their work. Gordon did that. Then you come out with a nonsensical post saying "that's what spouses are for"? Then let's continue....you get farther down the thread and have to post something that has NOTHING at all to do with the whole thread to let us know you went to bosnia...come one dude. if you don't want to look at someone's page, website or dirty underwear..don't. but also don't thing you are speaking for the rest of us. and be sure to make sure you have some really great stuff on your member page. up to date with all your p's and q's in order. if you don't you just look pretty damn silly. merry christmas I hope all get's all they want....including constructive comments.
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Gordon Haywood, Photographer
Perth | West Australia | Australia | Posted: 10:21 PM on 12.24.12
->> Thanks Chuck, Merry Christmas all
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 10:30 PM on 12.24.12
->> " ... the only opinion that really matters is my clients."

Your clients like sideways photographs? Man, I'm in the wrong market.

"Kids, pack your bags and jump in the car -- we're moving to Florence, South Carolina!!"

And ...

"It's sort of like awards, they are wonderful and when you win an award, it feels great. right?.....Well, what happens when you don't win?"

I usually cry.
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Gordon Haywood, Photographer
Perth | West Australia | Australia | Posted: 10:38 PM on 12.24.12
->> Chet Gordon

>> Hey Gordon, Nice work. Great name too. "Cheers" & Happy Holidays, ~cg.

Thank you - same to you
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Guy Rhodes, Photographer
East Chicago | IN | USA | Posted: 4:45 AM on 12.25.12
->> "I stopped worrying about my peers opinions/critiques many moons ago my friend."

Those are the ones I value the most in all my disciplines. By peers, in this case, I mean colleagues and coworkers.
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Brad Mangin, Photographer
Pleasanton | CA | USA | Posted: 3:16 PM on 12.25.12
->> Guy- as a peer I have always loved your work and featured it on our front page dozens of times. You have a great eye.

- Merry Christmas!
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Robert Caplin, Photographer
New York/Barcelona | Worldwide | | Posted: 3:38 PM on 12.25.12
->> Guy, quit fishing for compliments.
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Josh Peckler, Photographer
Chicago | IL | | Posted: 4:52 PM on 12.25.12
->> Robert,

Looking through all your instagram pictures and I am amazed how much beauty you can catch with just your phone. Awesome!!

Hope everyone had a great Christmas and has a safe New Year!
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Nic Coury, Photographer
Monterey | CA | | Posted: 8:36 PM on 12.25.12
->> Firstly, on topic, very nice stuff Gordon. Glad you got to get some MotoGP. I love me some moto racing!

Secondly, I love seeing how other photogs take pictures and what see. I learn all kinds of things, mostly "why the %$&@ didn't I get the frame like they did?!"

But in all seriousness, surrounding yourself with better photogs, makes you a better shooter.
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Gordon Haywood, Photographer
Perth | West Australia | Australia | Posted: 9:54 PM on 12.25.12
->> Thanks Nic

stay away from the pine trees mate, and you Dad's whiskey
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Willis Glassgow, Photo Editor, Photographer
Florence | SC | USA | Posted: 11:19 AM on 12.26.12
->> Folks.......Having read Chucks input, I realize that I am wrong in my statements. I apologize for having such a negative view about this subject. I respect Chucks views and opinions and was actually waiting for him to respond to this thread. Sometimes I let my emotions get the best of me and my opinions of a subject hijack clear thought. For that I want to apologize. Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and will have a Happy New Year.
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 11:24 AM on 12.26.12
->> Maybe Willis just had a bad case of the end-of-the-year blahs. On a lighter note, wasn't the Doctor Who Xmas Special awesome?
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Michael Granse, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 6:33 PM on 12.26.12
->> This may not be the best time to bring this up, but who do I need to send an email to in order to get credentials to shoot an NHL hockey game?
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Scott Mapes, Photographer
Jackson | MI | USA | Posted: 7:56 PM on 12.26.12
->> The local parks and recreation director of the county park that owns the ponds they are currently skating on.
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