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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
"Why the Instagram Privacy Uproar Is Absurd"
Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 9:28 PM on 12.19.12 |
->> Jim, I don't consider it absurd.
Clearly, they are saying they can CHARGE advertisers to use your photos without any compensation to you. That's bull****!!! Is that not selling my work w/o my knowledge or permission?
It says: "you agree that a business or other entity may pay us to display your username, likeness, photos (along with any associated metadata), and/or actions you take, in connection with paid or sponsored content or promotions, without any compensation to you."
Sorry, I don't allow anyone, nor do I know anyone who agrees to let other people sell my work to others, or to use my work. That's what they are saying. I realize they will take my shots and use them for financial gain within the confines of Instagram, but there's nothing that PRECLUDES them from allowing that same advertiser to use the same images elsewhere. There's no language that says "exclusively for use in advertising on Instagram" or anything of the sort. It's clearly ambiguous at best, stealing at worst. How mind-numbingly stupid can they be?
I'm just real glad I don't use Instagram.
And there was a post here that asked what Brad thought of all this. I'm VERY interested in his reactions... |
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Tim Huntington, Photographer
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Monterey | CA | USA | Posted: 10:45 PM on 12.19.12 |
->> Phil,
Whilst I believe the Instagram debacle is of their own making with a poorly worded (or maybe cleverly worded and insidious) change to their ToS, if you truly believe your statement "Sorry, I don't allow anyone, nor do I know anyone who agrees to let other people sell my work to others, or to use my work." then you might want to get off Facebook as they already do that (currently to a limited degree).
If you as a FB user "like" a business page, let's say "Bob's Pizza". Then Bob decides to promote his page (ie, pays Facebook to advertize it for him), then Facebook will show some Bob's Pizza post on certain pages within the site (typically friends of folks who already "like" the page) and next to it will be your profile picture (ie - your work) along with a message that you like Bob's Pizza. |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 10:48 PM on 12.19.12 |
->> "Jim, I don't consider it absurd"
Phil, the subject header is a quote from the article's title, not a quote from me. The point that the article is trying to make, I believe, is that the absurdity lies in the fact that everyone's TOS already says the same thing as Instagram's and that users shouldn't complain if they don't read the fine print.
I don't use Instagram, never have. |
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Erik Markov, Photographer, Assistant
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Indianapolis | IN | | Posted: 1:03 PM on 12.20.12 |
| ->> In and of itself..... I consider Instagram absurd. |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 8:58 PM on 12.20.12 |
| ->> Not special G.J., just prescient. |
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
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Murfreesboro | TN | U.S. | Posted: 8:47 AM on 12.21.12 |
->> "Spoiler alert: Instagram doesn't want to sell your photos because your photos suck."
- Grinch |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 10:54 AM on 12.22.12 |
| ->> Thanks Brad, great perspective. |
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Mark Sutton, Photographer
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Herndon | VA | USA | Posted: 11:12 AM on 12.22.12 |
| ->> Brad, I can't wait for you book if it's anything like the last one. Hey once I get it, can I mail both of them to you so you can sign them? Would really appreciate it.. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 12:32 PM on 12.24.12 |
->> Great analysis Mark...
No one begrudges them making money, that's not the point. Nor is the continuous "reassurance" that Instagram does not assume ownership of images. Mark's point about USAGE is spot-on. THIS is the issue. But... if you look at the current TOS reflected as of 8am Pacific time on 12/24/12, NOTHING HAS MATERIALLY CHANGED except the wording!!!!
To wit: "Some of the Instagram Services are supported by advertising revenue and may display advertisements and promotions, and you hereby agree that Instagram may place such advertising and promotions on the Instagram Services or on, about, or in conjunction with your Content. The manner, mode and extent of such advertising and promotions are subject to change without specific notice to you." http://instagram.com/about/legal/terms/ see paragraph 2.
This is a carefully crafted change in the WORDING! They WILL continue to USE YOUR IMAGES IN ADVERTISING FOR WHICH THEY WILL CHARGE THE CLIENT! Ergo, based on the paragraph above, they WILL use your images for PAID advertising on Instagram! (And possibly elsewhere)
Read it, folks: "...Instagram may place such advertising and promotions on the Instagram Services or on, about, or in conjunction with your Content. The manner, mode and extent of such advertising and promotions are subject to change without specific notice to you."
Does anyone REALLY believe that they are selling advertising for free? Of course not, so the upshot is they are SELLING advertising and GETTING PAID using YOUR IMAGES! This freaking issue IS...NOT...RESOLVED! They have not backed down from a damned thing except the phraseology!!!!!!!!!!
Then there's this murky phrase: "Instagram owns and retains all rights in the Instagram Content and the Instagram Services." http://instagram.com/about/legal/terms/ see paragraph 4. "...owns Instagram content..." !!??!!??
National Georgaphic is relieved... Brad is relieved... Everyone is breathing more easily because they THINK Instagram has "backed down" from their TOS. NOTHING HAS CHANGED! THEY HAVE NOT ALTERED THEIR INTENT TO USE YOUR IMAGES IN PAID ADS WITHOUT PERMISSION OR COMPENSATION TO YOU! And, throughout it all, there STILL is no specific verbiage that precludes them from allowing clients to use their ads elsewhere. So, if Ford Motor Company buys an ad from Instagram using your image in the ad, where does it prohibit Ford from using that ad in other advertising media?
"...advertising...in conjunction with YOUR CONTENT...without any notice to you"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The fox is giving everyone verbal reassurances that the chickens and eggs in the henhouse will not be harmed and everyone is saying "Whew, OK.." wtf!
???????????????? |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 2:17 AM on 12.25.12 |
| ->> I was quoting the existing ToS before, but the new version to go into effect at January 19, 2013, has basically the same language I quoted above. Under "Rights" paragraph 2 & 3 at http://instagram.com/about/legal/terms/updated/ |
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