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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Looking for an opportunity :)
Bernie Walls, Photographer
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Ocean City | MD | United States | Posted: 8:51 PM on 12.17.12 |
->> I'll be in Mrytle Beach from December 30th until January 2nd and then the Charleston, SC area from January 2nd until January 24th and I want to shoot some events and have the opportunity to learn more about shooting indoor sports since it's my weak point. I'm not looking for pay, simply the experience and to build my portfolio.
If anyone can use my help, please send me a message or if you know of anyone I can contact about this, please let me know. I would also be receptive to travel if it's not too far or if my travel will be paid.
Thanks!
Bernie |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 11:28 PM on 12.17.12 |
->> ....and the berating will start in...
5
4
3
2
1
....stand by... |
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Paul Hayes, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Littleton | NH | USA | Posted: 1:08 AM on 12.18.12 |
->> I will not berate. But Bernie, FYI, "I'm not looking for pay, simply the experience and to build my portfolio" is considered sacrilege by many (most? nearly all?) here.
In fact, I'm pretty sure that if you go to the top of the highest mountain (or hill) in your neck of the woods, preferably during a mood-setting lightning storm, hold your camera up to the sky and exclaim "I'm not looking for pay, simply the experience and to build my portfoliooooooooooo!!!" then Chuck Liddy will appear to smite you down. |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 1:14 AM on 12.18.12 |
| ->> Huh? I figured Liddy and Blanco would have been on this hours ago. |
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Ric Tapia, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 1:57 AM on 12.18.12 |
->> Why must we keep on having the same conversations? This horse is dead and we keep on kicking.
Also, This availability to shoot notices need to go to the classified section. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
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PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 3:26 AM on 12.18.12 |
| ->> yawn. |
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Scott Mapes, Photographer
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Jackson | MI | USA | Posted: 6:27 AM on 12.18.12 |
->> Why don't you just go to a local youth basketball game, shoot a 5th-6th grade game, you can shoot from the sidelines at those games. Just call the local middle schools and find out the time and day they play. The love to have shooters on their sidelines. You will get some really good experience in those gyms as the lighting is horrible at best.
I went to a 5th-6th grade game last night to help out a local landscape shooter learn to shoot sports, his son was on one of the teams. I ended up making $150.00 dollars selling a few pictures to some parents in the process, and lined up a couple senior pic gigs to boot next year. |
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Bernie Walls, Photographer
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Ocean City | MD | United States | Posted: 7:50 AM on 12.18.12 |
->> OK everyone, please excuse my "ignorance", but I'm not an experienced professional and being extremely new to this site I simply wasn't sure about the proper procedure to go about this, but thanks for the understanding(note the sarcasm). I did consider posting in the classified section, maybe I'll go with my 1st instinct next time. Thanks Scott for the constructive criticism, I actually do shoot high school games but I also want to take the next step up.
Merry Christmas to all! |
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
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Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 8:02 AM on 12.18.12 |
->> Wait, wait, wait, how did my name come into this? I actually have ZERO problem with what Bernie was asking.
He didn't say he just bought a new camera and a 300mm f/4 and now wants a credential to shoot NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, etc. for free and give away the images just to see his name in lights. He simply said he wanted to tag along with someone and learn shooting indoor sports. Big difference.
If I was in one of those two cities I'd be happy to have him along. |
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
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Murfreesboro | TN | U.S. | Posted: 8:38 AM on 12.18.12 |
| ->> Instead of saying you'll work for free, call it a personal project and everyone will love you. ;) |
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David Stembridge, Photographer
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Waynesboro | Ga | USA | Posted: 9:46 AM on 12.18.12 |
->> Bernie, Prep sports are in every city, and pretty easy to find. Basketball and wrestling 2 of the biggies going on now, great place to get in, even if you pay admission, you have great access, and can just shoot, and practice. Many times you'll run across several local paper photographers, watch them, ask questions, and just shoot!
Oh, i January, Upward Basketball will be in full swing, do a search for Upward programs in the Charleston area, and just start showing up take lots of pictures! |
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David Stembridge, Photographer
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Waynesboro | Ga | USA | Posted: 9:49 AM on 12.18.12 |
| ->> opps... sorry Bernie, I see you are shooting high school gams; so, just look for other experienced shooters that you can watch and learn from! |
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Scott Mapes, Photographer
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Jackson | MI | USA | Posted: 10:12 AM on 12.18.12 |
->> No problem Bernie, I am just starting in photography but I understand where these guys are coming from, and why they get upset. My brother will call me to shoot his daughters 5th grade softball game and tell me other parents want me to shoot their kids and want to know how much I would charge them for that.
I tell him I will put 3 to 4 images of their kids on a CD for $30.00 bucks. He will usually get 7 to 10 parents wanting this so Ill usually make between 200 to 300 bucks, sometimes more shooting a youth game.
We don't have action sports shooters where I live, so usually when I do a game, word gets out, and people have friends with kids who want me to do shoot their games, and Ive made some decent money to upgrade my gear.
I would also like to shoot Division 1 or maybe pro, get a taste of what it is like to shoot on a deadline, and i just flat out love to shoot action sports.
I know I am just starting out in my journey, but I also read the posts about what some wire services pay, and I don't know what others pay, but it dosent seem to be all that much. To me it would seem like, if I move up the ladder, the pay would be more, but its not the case, and if I am making 200 to 300 dollars a game to shoot youth, plus I have the freedom to move anywhere I want and I have field access, probably alot more so than shooting a pro game, I have alot better chance of nailing great shots doing the youth than I would professional sports. So at the same time I am thinking, god, why would I want to move up, I have it pretty good right here.
I am on the outside looking in at all this, but I can see very clearly why alot of these guys are upset and the posts are pretty brutal. Chuck can be brutal at times, and for me has provided some great internet forum entertainment. He did email me and offered to help me whenever I needed anything so I know deep down hes a great guy, and is just protecting the industry he loves. Its his passion and livelyhood all in one, its how he survives.
I do hope one day it all changes, as I would love to make alot of money doing something I love, and to get me out of the stinkin sweat shop factory in which I work now, but I just dont see it happening. So even though my work life can be brutal and tiring, and it dosent pay great wages, I do have a pension and 401k, and that's something I can't give up now being over 40 years old and getting closer to retirement, so photography is a part time gig for me.
I just wanted to post this because I see people get tired of talking about it, but for new photogs such as myself, even before I was a member, I read this stuff. Its brutal, hilarious, and the most important thing, its educational all rolled into one, and I don't think you should ever stop talking about it, you never know who is reading it for the first time. I know I have learned a ton from the experts just be reading this forum, and I can't buy that kind of an education anywhere.
Thanks for putting up with another long post =o) |
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Scott Mapes, Photographer
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Jackson | MI | USA | Posted: 10:17 AM on 12.18.12 |
| ->> Also, it should say.....I know I have learned a ton from the experts just BY reading this, not be. I guess I should have taken english more seriously in high school. lol |
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Bernie Walls, Photographer
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Ocean City | MD | United States | Posted: 5:47 PM on 12.18.12 |
->> I'm going to end my part of this thread by saying: I certainly didn't intend to start a "shit-storm"(my apologies if that word offends) and my apologies also if my post wasted anyone's time. As I said before, I'm new at this and I just want to learn and I was taught the best way to learn is to ask questions, that being said, I'll make sure I pick my wording more carefully in the future and do more intensive thread searching before I make a post. Even though I don't personally know anyone in this group, I do however have respect for everyone's work and so I don't want to come off as being a "dick". it wasn't my intention.
Many thanks to anyone that gave words of encouragement and direction because I will take it all to heart and move forward from here, who knows I might see some of you out in the field one day.
Bernie
p.s. No sarcasm that time :) |
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Ric Tapia, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 7:10 PM on 12.18.12 |
->> Bernie,
Well said, I think everyone was mostly offended by your use of a smiley face emoticon. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 9:22 PM on 12.18.12 |
->> "I actually do shoot high school games but I also want to take the next step up."
The next step? Are you talking about shooting pro sports like MLB, NFL and college sports? Dude, in the current state of industry that's a step down, not up. |
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Alex Menendez, Photographer
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Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 10:39 PM on 12.18.12 |
->> Bernie,
You will soon grow a thick skin in writing on this wall!
Keep asking questions, if you have them. People here will give you grief to make themselves feel better, just roll with it and learn all you can.
Be polite, do your job as best you can, and learn from your mistakes.
We all started in the same spot....
Merry Christmas
alex |
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Mark Sutton, Photographer
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Herndon | VA | USA | Posted: 6:48 AM on 12.19.12 |
->> Bernie,
My advised to you is to start small. Since it's basketball season, there should be a lot of young AAU or "Travel Team" leagues in your area. Because the action is slow and in most cases the lighting where they play probably isn't very good, you can learn a lot from covering their games.
Please don't go in there with the mind set of making any money, just have that mind set of getting better at shooting basketball.
When March rolls around the bigger AAU and "Club Teams" start up and you get to cover bigger and faster players and the lighting is slightly better. Plus, Little League Baseball should be starting up and you'd be amazed at what you get at these games.
Working on things like being aware of your backgrounds, capturing peak action and emotion are just some of the things you can work on at this smaller level.
As you grow as a sports photographer, you'll also need to know how to shoot portraits and head shots very quickly. You can easily work on your skills at this level as well. Plus it doesn't have to be sports related to work on these skills. Find your local VFW, local fire house or Senior Citizens group and volunteer your services there and maybe give them a free print for allowing you to practice on them. It can also be your church's choir.
You don't need High School, College or Pro sports to work on your portfolio. Some guy's on here post images from youth sports that will blow you away and rank up there with stuff I've seen from a pro game.
There's some very good articles on here (Sports Shooter) that can help you, but you have to do some serious research to find them. Some times the simplest question on here can blow up into a 50 post thread which is very sad. Mainly because instead of helping you or pointing you in the right direction, some want to belittle you or post STUPID videos just to try and get a "FUNNY" check next to their post. Gangster's behind a computer is what I call them.
But for the most part, most people on here are very helpful and you'll find out who they are very quickly.
Here's an article that should be very helpful: http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2430 |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
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PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 5:00 PM on 12.19.12 |
| ->> That's Gangsta's. |
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Mark Kauzlarich, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Madison | WI | | Posted: 5:30 PM on 12.19.12 |
->> Ya'll need Grammar Jesus.
Ganstas.
That some unnecessary apostrophe bull-SHUTYOMOUTH. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 7:12 PM on 12.19.12 |
->> Bernie,
There is no time like the present to start to learn the business side of photography, too. For every hour you spend improving your photographic skills and the quality of your work as Mark Sutton recommends above, spend three times that on learning the business of photography. Capturing a nice sports image is all well and good, but licensing it three or four times that's pure joy.
To be a success, weather hard times and thrive in a competitive market, you will want to work on identifying opportunities and niches to market your work. The opportunities you seek to make meaningful images are probably in your own backyard. Your can follow the herd or create your own path to greener pastures.
To be competitive and move your images from your hard drive to the homes of athletes and parents or on to the pages of a magazine or newspaper will require you to develop a skill set that includes engaging in market research, conduct focus groups, product development and marketing, negotiation and salesmanship, inventory control, customer service, and communication. The first and most foremost concept to understand is image licensing.
While most people put more emphasis on shooting side of the house, the business side is equally or greater in importance. The two questions you will want to regularly challenge yourself with as you grow within the business are "why is it done that way?" and "how can I do it better?". Sure, you will make mistakes along the way, but if you learn from them you will most certainly grow.
This way as your photographic skills grow, your ability to market your work will grow as well. As your business skills grow so will your income which will allow you to purchase equipment or tools to increase the quality of your work or the distribution.
Finally, from my own experience long before the age of the modern internet I learned that the people who want to hold your hand and stroke your ego, don't really care about you. They care more about feelings. The 'gangstas' here are the one's who really care. They may knock you down, but if you keep getting back up and looking them in the eye, you will not only get better faster, but earn their respect, too. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
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PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 12:08 AM on 12.20.12 |
| ->> clark...."word" |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 7:59 AM on 12.20.12 |
| ->> Mark said it best. That "the next level" of photography somehow involves a higher level of competition is a myth. |
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