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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

We need a Sports Shooter business workshop
Stanley Leary, Photographer
Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 9:29 AM on 12.14.12
->> We have had a lot of back and forth on this forum since the beginning on business practices.

While the workshop put on now is excellent the emphasis is on how to shoot. I think we could put together a great workshop teaching people how to create a business model where they can shoot sports or come to the realization they cannot afford to shoot sports.

How many here would go to such a workshop?

While we could have a veteran help teach I think having someone with 3 - 5 years freelance business would be great as well. They can show how to make money starting now in today's market.

This will not fix the industry, but help those who want to be successful have some guidance. They need to work through the numbers and be able to ask questions.

What do you think about such a workshop?
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Perrone Ford, Photographer
Tallahassee | FL | US | Posted: 11:25 AM on 12.14.12
->> Depending on price, I'd most certainly attend a workshop like this. Of course, there is a LOT of variability in this since markets are so different. There are markets with pro teams, markets with college teams, markets with big high school sports, and some markets with a combination of the above or NONE of the above.

It would be wonderful if it could be held in a nice place and perhaps away from expensive major cities. Since no one would need to bring gear, it could be a lot cheaper to travel. Maybe fly in on a Friday, fly out Sunday afternoon.
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Steve Boyle, Photographer
Philadelphia | PA | USA | Posted: 12:17 PM on 12.14.12
->> This has been done 3 times by ASMP, with their Strictly Business program. The last one was nearly 2 years ago.

http://asmp.org/content/strictly-business-3#.UMtes6WDsys
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Bradley Leeb, Photographer
Champaign | IL | USA | Posted: 12:20 PM on 12.14.12
->> Perhaps even a CreativeLive type approach would work to reduce costs. Or even a podcast or two to get the ball rolling, or a video podcast that could be posted in the "Special Features" section of the SS site.
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Jeff Gammons, Photographer
Destin | Fl | USA | Posted: 12:49 PM on 12.14.12
->> Brad, thats what I was going to mention.
I've watched sooo many webinars in the past few month its rediclious.
Pocketwizard and sekonic have cool live sessions mixed with some recorded material. Makes for a good watch.

+1 for the idea. I'm a buisness major, but would love to get some real world insight.
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Robert Beck, Photographer
Carlsbad | CA | USA | Posted: 12:52 PM on 12.14.12
->> Or integrate it into the photo workshop.
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Perrone Ford, Photographer
Tallahassee | FL | US | Posted: 1:28 PM on 12.14.12
->> I don't think I'd be up for integrating it into the photo workshop. I did the last one and frankly it was more than enough thinking about getting images, working deadlines, critiques, rides, etc.

And the photo workshop is pretty limited (necessarily) in terms of number of attendees. Putting 100 or 200 people in a meeting room for a business seminar is an entirely different model.
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Michael Ciu, Photographer, Assistant
Lorain | OH | USA | Posted: 1:30 PM on 12.14.12
->> Great idea. maybe even an east coast-ish setting.
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 1:48 PM on 12.14.12
->> Pretty much every organization has business workshops. NPPA, ASMP, PPA, APA and the reason you pick one over the other is because they are tailored to their membership.

For example, WPPI helps wedding photographers understand a pricing model for their clientele.

Just like there are different levels and markets for wedding shooters (destination, low end, middle income and top end) we too have many different markets within sports.

My reasoning for posting this is there are many people on this forum that want to know some numbers and understand the market so when they do a CDB they also understand how to communicate their prices to that market.

You could easily have major sessions that help anyone and then breakout sessions for specialty markets.

I believe that those who understand the business side of Sports Shooting can be a mediocre shooter and do much better than the prodigy Sports Shooter who doesn't understand the business side. When you do both really well then watch out.
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Rick Rickman, Photographer
Capistrano Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 2:52 PM on 12.14.12
->> Stanley:

I think you have a terrific idea. The more people have access to good information the better. I know from teaching visual journalists that many young photographers want to have good information on effective business models. They make poor choices when they don't have the information they need.

Your previous point that the people we need to reach are the ones who want to become professionals. I believe as you do, that there are always going to be hobbyists. Those people do what they do just for the joy, or ego, or supplimental money and, it makes no difference to them that pay is inappropriate.

The irony regarding business seminars is that even with all the good information that is disseminated to the participants, peoples memories are short and depending on the desire of the photographer to get the job they still are reticent to follow good advice. That's why, in my opinion it's important to have people share real life examples that contrast making good decisions and not so good decisions. Those clear examples make all the difference sometimes.
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 4:39 PM on 12.14.12
->> Rick:

7 years ago I started teaching at a college program where before I came business practices had never been taught.

After I teach on business practices I still get questions asked later that showed they didn't listen. However, for the first time since I have been teaching there, their are graduates with successful photography business.

What was missing before is someone to help walk them through scenarios. Some of the graduates are doing portraits, some are doing weddings and some commercial. The key isn't that they all listen, but those that do have a chance for success.

We teach them how to access a market. Sometimes what they want to do isn't viable. Better to know before spending lots of money marketing and trying to penetrate a market that doesn't exist.

Before SS photographers could go and take workshops in photography and some covered Sports. The success of this forum is how it helps those who want to do sports how to shoot and what is being done in the industry. What is lacking is the business models for success.

Hopefully the workshop could help people realize there is not a well worn path to follow, but they need some skills to help them navigate the new path for themselves.
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 4:40 PM on 12.14.12
->> Gee my grammer sucks. It should be "After I taught on business practices"
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Mike Anzaldi, Photographer
Oak Park | IL | USA | Posted: 2:31 PM on 12.15.12
->> "Gee my grammer sucks."

so does your spelling. ;)
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 3:42 PM on 12.15.12
->> How much would you pay for a day-long workshop on this topic?

(This was something my workshop group considered.)
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Garrett Hubbard, Photographer
Washington | D.C. | USA | Posted: 4:15 PM on 12.15.12
->> Love the idea. Let me know what I can do to help. I'd pay ~ $75
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Luke Johnson, Photographer
St.Petersburg | Fla | USA | Posted: 6:58 PM on 12.15.12
->> I think $50 for professionals and free for students would be fair.
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 10:43 PM on 12.15.12
->> I'd not only pay to go; I would be willing to teach the basics of how to sell successfully to anyone who is serious about wanting to sell clients successfully.

After over 50 years, I've heard about ever excuse there is at finding what the client needs and then making sure they get what they need at a selling price that makes good economic sense for the buyer and the seller.

If there's been one theme I've discussed in these forums over and over throughout the years, it's been not worrying about what someone with a digital camera charges. Rarely, if ever do I use having the lowest price point as a effective, long term pricing strategy. It may be a solution, but it's not THE solution.

Stanley, Bert - if you're interested in discussing this, call or text me. I not only have about $40-50M in sales under my belt, I've had 45 plus years to work some of the bugs out.

If someone wants to learn, the willingness to learn the right things will make it far easier to learn how to be successful at it.

M
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 10:44 PM on 12.15.12
->> Mike, that's how you spell "grammar" in Georgia. 8)
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 11:33 PM on 12.15.12
->> Chuck;
LOL. After the last week (see my post about being lucky)I certainly won't criticize anyone's spelling... even if they live in GA :).

M
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Thread Title: We need a Sports Shooter business workshop
Thread Started By: Stanley Leary
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