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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

FPS overkill at football game?
Robert DeForge, Photographer
Gaylord | MI | United States | Posted: 5:53 PM on 11.12.12
->> I was at a Regional Final high school football game in Midland, MI on Saturday, and standing next to 3 photographers on one play, one of the photographers ripped off about 15-shots....on a 3-yard off-tackle play.....just freaked me out. I had to move, as I did not want to hear his camera on the next play rip off an equla amount of images. For whatever reason, I have always been a 1-shot, maybe 3 at the most sports photographer....like to catch the moment on one click of the shutter....think it keeps me sharp in anticipating plays. Am I crazy in this thinking, or shooting off 10+ photos on 2-yard running plays normal? I could not imagine going through all of th ephotos at the end of a game snapping so many on a play that frankly, a nothing play. I just know through the years I cannot stand next to another photographer that just rips the shutter.
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Craig Mitchelldyer, Photographer, Assistant
Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 6:40 PM on 11.12.12
->> maybe they needed stock of the defensive player and that tackle was one of the only plays he was involved in or was a clear shot of whatever player he needed. I tend to not assume everyone is shooting the same types of things. I wouldn't judge someone based on a happy trigger finger. You never know.
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Dave Prelosky, Photographer
Lower Burrell | Pa | US | Posted: 6:49 PM on 11.12.12
->> Robert -
A few thoughts, that I'm sure others will chime in on as well.
On the surface, 15 frames of a nothing play sounds like a lot. But, there may be more going on. You don't mention who the other folks were shooting for, so I'm gonna' suppose they were from newspapers and there can be quite a few factors at work in this situation.
There is frequently more than one "right" frame of a play. Depending on players in the background and things like leading blockers one frame may work better than another.
There may be an assignment to bring back a shot of a specific player, and the shooter wants to bring their best work.
Frequently I shoot players as a play winds down to bring ID's along. Doing that would add frames to the count.

And then there's just plain old insecurity, also know as "spray and pray"
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 7:26 PM on 11.12.12
->> no comment.
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
Atlanta | Ga | USA | Posted: 7:34 PM on 11.12.12
->> I never worry about what the other photographers are doing and with what gear they're using either. I mean, who cares? I get what I need to fill my needs and go home. You should too.
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Dave Prelosky, Photographer
Lower Burrell | Pa | US | Posted: 7:48 PM on 11.12.12
->> Or what Liddy said.
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Rob Carmell, Photographer
Yucaipa | CA | USA | Posted: 8:40 PM on 11.12.12
->> All the above. I had a nice little sale from a 10 frame sequence I shot of a high school baseball pitcher. Yes it sounded impressive, but it was for a specific request of my customer. I've never concerned myself with FPS of fellow photographers or relocated myself based on what I heard coming from their camera. I just concentrate on what I'm there to do.
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 9:09 PM on 11.12.12
->> "For whatever reason, I have always been a 1-shot, maybe 3 at the most sports photographer....like to catch the moment on one click of the shutter ..."

This might be hard to believe but there's a new moment and sometimes several of them happening every second of a game. The shooter(s) you observed are capturing ones you can't see and may be won't see until you let go of your inhibitions. You are certainly might be capturing the action, but are you seeing the other moments that happen. There are the emotional elements of the game, acts of sportsmanship, the interaction between teammates and/or opponents and then there is the beauty created by color and light mixing in the arena. The play may be over the moments are still happening.

What you are doing is consistent with your needs, but not for the guy standing next to you. When in doubt, you might asked what the shooter why they shot what they did or the extra frames. However, the danger in that is you might start seeing those moments and start shooting them, too ;-)
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Jeffrey Nycz, Photographer
Warsaw | IN | USA | Posted: 10:52 PM on 11.12.12
->> Scott Krlby and Dave Black recently developed a high school football training video and they both, on nearly every sequence, we're capturing multiple images of a play. At times, up to what sounded like 20 to 25 frames. They were both using 32 gig cards.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 10:53 PM on 11.12.12
->> Note to self, next time I'm feeling crowded on a sideline just hold down the shutter release until everyone moves away......

You can't find wisdom like this ANYWHERE else on the web... Robert needs to bump the subscription to $30

What Jeff said +1
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 11:27 PM on 11.12.12
->> When I end up next to a "photographer" that just indiscriminately puts the hammer down and motors off 20-30-40 frame at a whack, I turn to them and say: "Making a movie are you?"
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Butch Miller, Photographer
Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 12:46 AM on 11.13.12
->> Of course we all should never pass up on an opportunity when it presents itself ... nor should we pass judgement on those we share the sideline with when we don't know what their goals are for the day ... however, there is difference between judicious capture ... and complete overkill simply because the technology in our grasp is capable of 8-10 fps ... to pretend that it doesn't occur is a bit foolish ... like Robert points out pounding out that frame rate continuously for an entire game is akin to video capture and may not be considered prudent or the most efficient method of completing the task by some.

I started out shooting action sports in 1977 ... for the first two full years, I did not own a motor drive for my Nikon FM ... the technology I made use of forced me to be conscious of what I was doing and to make the most of every opportunity as I only had one chance to get it right ... this trait has become ingrained in my daily work. While I will take advantage of what my 21st Century equipment can offer ... I still don't lay on the shutter release for extensive bursts ... I shoot RAW and can't recall the last time I ever had a buffer overrun ... The biggest advantage of being more selective and "culling" your images in camera before you ever touch the shutter release ... the less time you have to spend on deadline sifting through all that chaff seeking out a few top quality grains of wheat for captioning and uploading to your clients ...

That said, I am never annoyed or upset when those around me are gleefully collecting mass quantities of ones and zeroes that will never see the light of day ... but I also never envy them their task of sifting through all those images to find the few real gems ...
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Jesse Beals, Photographer
Tracyton | WA | USA | Posted: 2:29 AM on 11.13.12
->> I won't lie, I motor drive the heck out of my cameras. With a 10 frame burst one shot could be used for news while the other 7-9 frames make good stock art if everything lines up correctly in the frame. You would be stunned how one little movement of the arm or leg and the buyer looks to another picture so having many choices is always good. More is better in my book, you can always delete but never go back to that moment.

As for getting other photographers to move away from you, the secret at Century Link Field in Seattle, WA is the Chile served at Seahawks & UW Husky games. By the third quarter you can have the field to your self after a bowl of that stuff.
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Tareq Abdulla, Photographer
Aljurf | Ajman | United Arab Emirates | Posted: 6:41 AM on 11.13.12
->> I spray and pray, i don't care if i just fire away without timing, but i found out that doing this i can get more keepers than just shoot 1-4 shots per second, believe me, even out of 10+ frames i may get only 2 or 3 mostly which are good, so at the end of games say i have about 200+, not more than 300 at all, out of those 200+ i can have 10-30 good shots, i post them to our local team site/forum, they told me minimum 6 photos, but they told me they recommend something between 10-20, so if i shoot only 2-4 frames per second for the whole game of soccer i do then i may end up only with 5-8 great shots and all others are just for delete, not much to share.

I bought those fast camera to spray, i have a big size cards, why i shoot in 2-4 frames even i am good in timing? I don't shoot all actions at 10+, there are actions i shoot say about 3-5 frames, other actions 1-3 and some at 8-10+ fps, so that all depends on the actions going on, i don't want to miss many actions, i may get actions i need within 10+ fps more than i can get within 1-4fps, even after 5 years of shooting and i am not experienced yet i still do firing a lot with fast cameras and i will keep doing, just what is different is that i fire 10+ less times than in the past, i was using 2 cars of 8GB each to shoot the whole game using 8mp camera, now i only use one 8GB card and don't fill it using 10mp camera.
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 7:32 AM on 11.13.12
->> There are many reasons why I don't stand next to Clark Brooks.

1. He's physically fit and better looking than I am.
2. I don't like the smell of gaffer tape.
3. He won't talk to you when he's shooting with his eyes closed.
4. He packs too much health food in his hip bag.
5. If you tell him a dirty joke you need to spend a half hour explaining it to him.

Honestly, my mentor Clark told me years ago to stop worrying about others and just stay focused on myself. Actually, I think he said, "Who cares! This isn't a pissing contest!"
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Bradley Leeb, Photographer
Champaign | IL | USA | Posted: 8:23 AM on 11.13.12
->> Kevin,

I would disagree with point number 4 above. Let's not forget his Fiber One bar debacle...
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 8:25 AM on 11.13.12
->> Yep... you are correct. The risks of eating wood pulp!
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Robert DeForge, Photographer
Gaylord | MI | United States | Posted: 10:47 AM on 11.13.12
->> Must be an internal thing for me :) I am normally not at large events where I am next to 5-6 cameras at every spot on the field.....just kind of freaks me out, I am lining up my shot waiting for what I think is the right spot, and hear a camera just clicking away. Good points that every one else has different agenda's. Did not mean to come across like a pompus a**.....was not intended.....just wondering if my style was normal, or the frame clicking style is more the norm with most of the professionals on this site. I was not looking at the other photographer, giving him the 'what are you doing' look, because I really do not care...just moved to another spot on the sidelines because I did not want to hear the burst again...that is all. Something I guess I will have to get used to when I am at bigger games :) My intial thought in the single frame vs burst, is it takes more skill to capture the shot, but what does that matter if you have a particular job to do, and the camera equipment provides that function for you. Thanks for the folks that sent me a private message as well :) and everyone that offered opinions...was not trying to ruffle feathers.
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Wally Nell, Photographer
SAN DIEGO | CA | USA | Posted: 12:15 PM on 11.13.12
->> If you are shooting something like baseball or tennis, and you want the ball on the bat/racquet, spray and pray will not help. It is all in the timing. One shot. However, there are other sports where the motion is more liquid and more continuous where shooting at 10fps indeed is actually better. So, I think it depends on the situation. Yes, we should be able to pick our point of peak action and press the shutter a millisecond before it happens, and get that ONE shot. We did that in the days of film and slow motordrives. Having cameras with high fps is a luxury, why not use it... If you don't have your timing right, a high fps is still not going to get you that ONE picture. Peak action is great to shoot, but I think in all the shooting-peak-action, we often forget about the bigger picture surrounding the play. The sweat, the pain, the dirt, the joy, the frustration (and I am not talking about the photographer now!); there is a time for spraying and there is a time to stand back and pick that ONE shot...
So, if the guy next to you is doing it, ... ehh, so what...? If the guy next to you is shooting one shot at a time, ... so what?
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 12:31 PM on 11.13.12
->> Robert, why would you care how many frames he rips off? Unless you're the one that has edit what he shoots... :)

Kevin, no wonder I can never get a hold of Clark on the phone, he's too busy being fit... guess I'll have to increase the 2 miles jogging a day to four.. based on my waist line, that's probably a good thing anyway.

M
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Al Diaz, Photographer
Miami | Fl | USA | Posted: 12:48 PM on 11.13.12
->> Sometimes I have a heavy trigger finger. For all the reasons stated above I'm puzzled when I'm chided for it. On the other hand it's a distraction when I hear others do it. Don't let it bother you or... just wear headphones.
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 1:19 PM on 11.13.12
->> Isn't it all relative to a point? I mean, if you shoot basketball with strobes, you are going one frame at a time, period. But, I shoot horse racing a ton. At the end of a race, the time to shoot the jockey celebrating isn't AFTER they celebrated. In feature situations, I routinely switch to single frame to remind myself to make each image count. Horse racing, where legs position is always tough and you never know about the jockey, I am much more apt to lean on it. Granted, there are also folks I see and hear who drill it to photograph horses walking to the paddock before the race. For them, I wonder how long it takes them to ingest that many images. If I am going to take the time to ingest and edit that many images, they better be worth it.
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Jim Karczewski, Photographer, Assistant
Hammond | IN | USA | Posted: 2:01 PM on 11.13.12
->> ->> Isn't it all relative to a point? I mean, if you shoot basketball with strobes, you are going one frame at a time, period.

Nope. I strobe and shoot anywhere from 3-6 image sequences. Depends on your equipment and what you're shooting. Granted, no pro games. Semi-pro, college, high school.. but I rarely shoot single shot on basketball.
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Jeffrey Nycz, Photographer
Warsaw | IN | USA | Posted: 2:18 PM on 11.13.12
->> My personal experience is that I don't trust myself or the camera to lock on focus for that one great photo. As the play develops I may shoot a frame or two prior to the anticipated "real" action to offer an improved chance for focus to lock for the next several frames.

In baseball, when the home team is batting, I always shoot 4-6 frames of the swing simply because I love the broken bat shots. If nothing happens, I delete all the frames from that sequence. For me, a broken bat shot would be nearly impossible to capture in a single photo.

You pay dearly for advanced focus systems and 12 FPS. I use everything available to me to hopefully capture that one great moment.
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Tareq Abdulla, Photographer
Aljurf | Ajman | United Arab Emirates | Posted: 4:07 PM on 11.13.12
->> Ok, let me ask this question which is almost related to fps rather than i start another topic.

When shooting at higher fps [8/10/14,....etc], how is the body response with that? I have Extreme IV and most of the time when i shoot at 8 or 10 fps and add more frames the card lags for a while, so what card do you use and how is the issue affect your shooting? What do you recommend as a card to suit that higher fps?

I hope i explained or described the problem above.
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Jim Karczewski, Photographer, Assistant
Hammond | IN | USA | Posted: 4:35 PM on 11.13.12
->> With a 1Dx and the Lexar Professional 1000x UDMA 7 cards, response is just fine... No issues what so ever. I can shoot about 40 raw images until the camera goes to about 3 shots every second but then the buffer clears up really quickly once I stop shooting.
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Stew Milne, Photographer
Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 4:43 PM on 11.13.12
->> Just this weekend I was wondering why the guy beside me was shooting 50 frames of a play during the Patriots game. I don't know who he shoots for, but I've seen him many times at Pat's games. Literally as soon as the ball was snapped he laid down on the shutter.

My thinking: "glad I'm not editing your photos."

I don't get the hammer down approach. I usually see it used by "photographers" who don't know what they are doing. The spray and pray approach. But I do admit, some people need to do this for their clients. It is annoying though.

-s
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Peter Wine, Photographer, Photo Editor
Dayton | OH | USA | Posted: 5:35 PM on 11.13.12
->> When I shoot high school games, I sometimes use a short burst, though it's more like 3-5 frames, and usually done on 'slow' burst mode.
It's not so much for the photo choice, but rather to be sure (as I can) that I have one shot that shows the number of players involved for use in captions.
Depends on what kind of play, and I still shoot for the peak moment.
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Tareq Abdulla, Photographer
Aljurf | Ajman | United Arab Emirates | Posted: 6:35 PM on 11.13.12
->> Thank you very much, Jim!
Even i prefer Sandisk, i think i have to give Lexar a try again, i have old Lexar cards [1GB].
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Sam Morris, Photographer
Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 9:13 PM on 11.13.12
->> Ah, First World Problems...
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Thread Title: FPS overkill at football game?
Thread Started By: Robert DeForge
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