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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

NBA / NCAA BBall guys - Need some help
Perrone Ford, Photographer
Tallahassee | FL | US | Posted: 1:42 AM on 11.05.12
->> Ok, so I picked up an assignment shooting ACC women's hoops this season. However, the facilities director won't allow floor chairs. Anyone have any good suggestions? I'm looking at some good knee pads. Not sure if I can do a full game sitting cross-legged. The exhibition game had my back sore for hours.

Thanks for any ideas.
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Patrick Fallon, Photographer, Assistant
Torrance | California | USA | Posted: 2:03 AM on 11.05.12
->> So the typical seats like this used all over the place are not ok?
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=CtWXTmM5Jd9z99g&pid=Commerce

Perhaps he is thinking of something else when you said "floor chairs"
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Jeff Gammons, Student/Intern, Photographer
Destin | Fl | USA | Posted: 9:11 AM on 11.05.12
->> Ive seen people on rolly computer chairs on the basline over there... That and ive used my crazy creek at the mens game. May want to double check with him.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 9:34 AM on 11.05.12
->> You need to get a Crazy Creek camp "chair"...the kind that rolls up. I think you might have confused the guy with the word "chair". I've never seen anyplace that doesn't allow the camp chairs. just stay away from anything that had rigid metal parts. knee pads? my friend you'll be crippled if you are on your knees for that long....plus I would think if there are customers behind you they will make you sit.
http://www.rei.com/product/830324/crazy-creek-hex-20-original-camp-chair
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Perrone Ford, Photographer
Tallahassee | FL | US | Posted: 10:20 AM on 11.05.12
->> The asst SID asked the guy while he was in the press room with us on Saturday. He knew the chair, and I said I see NCAA guys and NBA guys in them every week. Said no. I guess this is how you haze the new guy.

The rolly chairs are only for TV.

To be fair, one of the staff shooters was there shooting the game and he didn't have a floor chair either. Says he shoots from his knees. I am going to a men's exhibition game tonight, so I'll see if the scenario is the same.
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Jeff Gammons, Student/Intern, Photographer
Destin | Fl | USA | Posted: 10:45 AM on 11.05.12
->> Ive seen photo guys in the rolly chairs, they are in the back of some my shots. I used my chair at the games I shot last year.

Dont know what crawled up their butt and died, hope your back lasts all season.....
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David Hungate, Photographer
Roanoke | VA | United States | Posted: 10:57 AM on 11.05.12
->> The Camp Creek chair that Chuck is referencing is great.

But if you are gonna be on your knees for a while (shooting basketball, praying, laying tile, etc.) consider
http://www.armedworkwear.com.

These pants are great. Rugged, tons of pockets and the pest part is the built-in replaceable knee pads. As the knee padding is right in the front where you need it, you don't get that pinching at the back of your knees after shooting for an extended period of time. Plus, they have different levels of padding or you can double up the pads to give even more protection.
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Al Goldis, Photographer
East Lansing | MI | USA | Posted: 10:59 AM on 11.05.12
->> So the "facilities director" is the one with the problem not the SID?

Get the SID to convince the moronic facilities guy that "his" facility is the only one in the entire country trying to ruin photographers' backs.
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Perrone Ford, Photographer
Tallahassee | FL | US | Posted: 11:14 AM on 11.05.12
->> @Jeff - Yea the photog can sit in the chair if there's no TV or if there is a spare chair. I might get lucky on some of the games and get to use it, but I'm low man on the totem pole so I can't rely on that. Especially for the bigger games.

@David - Yea, I had someone reference that Camp Creek chair last spring. I started to get one then, but waited. If I can use one, that's the one I'll get. I'll check out the pants. Thanks for the tip.

@Al - Yea the SID is awesome. I'll try to see if I can work an angle in a couple weeks. But if I see 3-4 shooters at the men's game tonight, and none have chairs, my case is gonna be pretty weak.

I might have to stick with Volleyball since they let me do whatever I need.
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Eric Francis, Photographer
Omaha | NE | United States | Posted: 11:15 AM on 11.05.12
->> No doubt this is an over reaction to someone getting hurt by a chair of some sort. Instead of being reasonable and putting some thought into it, they just banned all "chairs."
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Jeff Gammons, Student/Intern, Photographer
Destin | Fl | USA | Posted: 11:46 AM on 11.05.12
->> My point was more or less was why do they allow 4 very hard very dangerous rolly chairs on the floor, that are pretty much on the playing court during the game, yet they will not allow a piece of fabric 6 feet behind the line.
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Perrone Ford, Photographer
Tallahassee | FL | US | Posted: 12:30 PM on 11.05.12
->> I am going to try to work this through channels and see where it goes, but being the "new guy" I don't want to rock the boat too much right now.

I need to focus more on getting quality images for now. That place is DARK. Seems to be a theme for venues around Tallahassee. I'll update "the list" in a week or two with updated info in case anyone else needs to shoot down here this year.
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Bob Nichols, Photographer
Tipton | IN | USA | Posted: 12:54 PM on 11.05.12
->> Tell them that since you can't use a "chair", you bought a new "back brace" instead.

See Chuck's reply above to locate your new "back brace".
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Perrone Ford, Photographer
Tallahassee | FL | US | Posted: 2:18 PM on 11.05.12
->> Well,

I just ordered a Crazy Creek chair. Wish me luck! Maybe I should have ordered some grease...


(for the wheels ya know...)
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Jeff Gammons, Student/Intern, Photographer
Destin | Fl | USA | Posted: 2:24 PM on 11.05.12
->> I thought it was for when they bend you over after you take a chair on the floor....
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Perrone Ford, Photographer
Tallahassee | FL | US | Posted: 1:51 AM on 11.06.12
->> Well, tonight was disheartening. I attended a men's home game. The regular school staff photographer was there, beat photographer for the local newspaper, team photographer for the opponent, and 2 other student photographers. All sitting indian style, none with a floor chair.

Since I was a "guest" tonight, I only took my V1 and basically toured around the facility with another freelancer as we worked angles all over the civic center. I was looking for spots to place remotes, and to get alternate angles for later. So what I may do, is to shoot 1/3 of the game from the baseline, and then 2/3 of the game from alternate angles. I think my back can handle that.

Going to be an interesting season. I may go shoot some HS hoops for practice, and see if I can get some use out of my chair that way...

So if you have to shoot in Tallahassee this winter, be aware of the new "chair" policy.
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Jeff Gammons, Student/Intern, Photographer
Destin | Fl | USA | Posted: 2:08 AM on 11.06.12
->> Ill give you a call tommorow about remotes, ive run into some issues over there.
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 3:08 AM on 11.06.12
->> This is totally bizarre. What do the guys covering women's hoops do? Any other sports you can point to in which people use them? Ask him what changed from last year to result in prohibiting them? What does the staff photog say about this? It's certainly not an NCAA rule.

You don't cover NCAA basketball on your knees. I can't even imagine. It's not the best situation in which you can find yourself, but not a deal breaker. Suck it up. I've shot w/o a chair many times and I'm in my late 50's.

As for moving around like you describe, that would be new to my experience as well. NO facility I have ever shot has ever permitted "shooting different angles". You are restricted to the base line and, depending on the arena, sometimes a specific spot.

Something ain't right. You need to see the SID, not the asst. The SID can talk to the facilities guy and clarify the situation.
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Pat Lovell, Photographer
Bloomington | IN | US | Posted: 6:52 AM on 11.06.12
->> I agree with Phil, something isn't right here. I've shot at many different Big 10 and Big East arenas, and have never seen an issue with "camp chairs". And, there is no way you can shoot on your knees. (a) you will be asked to sit down by the people behind you that paid to be there and (b) if you get run over by a 7 footer while on your knees, you will have major back problems to worry about in the future.

Honestly, I would probably just show up with a camp chair and use it. This would spark a conversation if you are asked not to use it. I'd like to hear why, if it is a policy.
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Tim Cowie, Photographer, Photo Editor
Davidson | NC | USA | Posted: 8:53 AM on 11.06.12
->> Good chairs = http://www.floorseating.com
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Jacob Langston, Photographer
Orlando | FL | | Posted: 9:11 AM on 11.06.12
->> If anyone needs a good solution, check this out:

http://www.backvitalizer.com/

I got it from my chiropractor and it can be used as a lumbar pillow in your car or chair. It can also can be used to sit on. It is filled with air so it keeps your body moving slightly and works your core. Get a work out while sitting on your bootay!

I use it at NBA games and it is great. It forces you to sit up straight so you don't need a back rest. If they give you any problems tell them it is doctor recommended.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 9:38 AM on 11.06.12
->> Tim, the backjack chairs were the standard back in the late 80's and 90's until the crazy creek chair came out....the problem with the backjack is it has metal struts for the support system. IF you have a "touchy" or "out of touch" individual running the show this seat will draw an immediate red flag. the seat can fail (I had a couple break). then you're left with a metal pipe which can impale someone. the crazy creek chairs use fiberglass framing...and when they break it's no big deal. however, something is wrong in tallahassee. Perrone, I have never been in any venue that doesn't allow the soft chairs, ever. I've shot at every ACC school in the conference and there is no rule in place. you should speak with the SID directly AND if that fails approach someone at the conference office. maybe this facilities guy should be more concerned with crowd control after the game than what the photographers are sitting on...
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 10:56 AM on 11.06.12
->> Also, now that I think about it, I don't know any team anywhere in which the "facilities director" dictated anything to photogs. It's always the SID. The warped thinking, I'm assuming, is a safety issue. Ask him how a camp chair is more of a risk than a 300mm 2.8 lens, or 70-200 2.8, a couple of bodies, etc. etc. Ask the open-ended questions that force him to think about the contradictions of his policy.

Cover a women's game, bring the chair without asking as if it were perfectly normal, and see what happens. Force the issue and then if they allow it, you've got 'em by the short hairs. If they give you a hard time, hold up your 300 2.8 and say "What about this?" and draw a risk comparison forcing them to think about the contradictions. That's what I would do.

But I gotta say, with all due respect, that if you are absolutely not allowed to use a camp chair, dumb as the policy is, why it would be such a big deal.

I'd love to see what happened if Liddy or McDonough, PRM, etc. were to confront this stupid rule. Trust me, sooner or later this is going to get resolved.
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Perrone Ford, Photographer
Tallahassee | FL | US | Posted: 11:00 AM on 11.06.12
->> I'm not looking to incite a riot here folks. But I agree the situation is bizarre. I am going to have a few conversations over the next week and see where that leads. I'll report back in 7-10 days.

As for being restricted to the baseline, last night I shot with one of the photographers and we moved around the arena quite a lot. Everything from VERY high positions, to just on the risers parallel to the basket. The game was lightly attended so that wouldn't work in all scenarios.

I think it's imperative that I try to work inside the structure of how things are laid out and get to know people before I start flirting with the rules. I think that's in good form, and unlike some of you guys, I don't have a newspaper or magazine propping me up. If I cause too many problems, they revoke my credential and I'm done. They "want" my coverage, but they don't "need it", if that makes sense.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 11:42 AM on 11.06.12
->> "They "want" my coverage, but they don't "need it"
Wrong attitude. Completely. Sorry, that kind of mindset is a recipe for failure on all levels. Thinking such as that screws things up for everybody. Which brings into question (I know off topic) but who exactly are you working for? I can't even begin to imagine ANY entity paying for game coverage to think that's a good attitude.....back on topic. I know the civic center down there was run by the city (hence the problems with lots of drunks at the seminole games since beer sales are allowed) but I thought the school had taken over operation of the building. if that is so the SID should ABSOLUTELY get involved in this floor seating debacle. you should hook up with TD photographer Glenn Beil.
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Perrone Ford, Photographer
Tallahassee | FL | US | Posted: 12:01 PM on 11.06.12
->> Chuck, I appreciate your sentiment. I really do. My situation is somewhat different than other shooters here, and I realize that and I am ok with it.

FSU did take over and hence we are seeing new rules like I've described in this thread.

I met Glenn last night for the first time. I am sure he and I will have conversation in the future. He wasn't in a chair last night either.
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Jeff Gammons, Photographer
Destin | Fl | USA | Posted: 1:56 AM on 12.19.12
->> I already talked to Perrone after the game, but wanted to just give an update.

I shot the FSU mens game the other night and used my crazy creek with no hassle. SID didn't even mention it.

Weird I was the only person using one. I get sore even thinking about not being able to use mine...
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 2:14 AM on 12.19.12
->> Jeff, after reading your post it makes this statement by Perrone "My situation is somewhat different than other shooters here" even more suspect. There is NO way FSU would have any concern over what photographers sit on along the baseline, none. nada. there is something hinky here.....but...this is.....after all.....SportsShooter
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Mike Carlson, Photographer
Bayonet Point | FL | USA | Posted: 8:02 AM on 12.19.12
->> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 'gym' at FSU is a bit different this year. The school plays in an aging facility that used to be community owned, but the school has taken it over this year and, apparently, is going to make some changes (hopefully that means some improvements). I can see how there might be a bit of 'facility/SID' confusion.

When I shot a men's pre-season game there earlier this year everyone was VERY friendly/helpful. Oddly, their school photography did actually shoot the game from one of the 'wheely' chairs you usually see the TV guys use, and no one that I recall had any other chair.

They also had some students/interns on the video cameras wheeling all over the damn place...one even ran into me at one point after moving about 10 feet sideways, and at one point also ran over my floor remote that I had set up in front of me (while also blocking my shot on a number of other occasions...again, a good 10-15 feet down the baseline from the net - I chalked it up to a new kid/first game).

For the record, I also use and recommend the BackJack chair, and have used it at multiple NCAA venues and at Magic games with no issues ever.
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Perrone Ford, Photographer
Tallahassee | FL | US | Posted: 12:21 PM on 12.19.12
->> I guess I should have updated this post a while back. I have used my Crazy Creek chair twice now at the Civic Center. I got a bit more brazen after one of my other photographer friends used his and I asked him about it.

I've also gotten to know a few more people and have learned the "lay of the land" a bit more. I am shooting there tonight, and will use my chair again. We'll see how that goes.

As Jeff noted, he was the only person there using one last night, and that has been my situation as well. So you'll excuse me for not feeling like I could simply waltz in and do whatever I felt like.

The gentleman in the "wheelie" chair gets away with a lot. More than anyone else dare try. He takes some heat for it too on occasion.

I ran a floor remote last week, and while the video guy didn't run over it, he did block my shot on several occasions. They do use a lot of students to run the cameras on the baseline, but there is one guy there in his 30s who is VERY good and very professional. I've seen him at other sports shooting a Nikon still camera so I think he understands somewhat.
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Thread Title: NBA / NCAA BBall guys - Need some help
Thread Started By: Perrone Ford
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