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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Ugh.
Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 11:58 AM on 09.21.12
->> Hope this isn't standiing in front of me one day...
http://www.patricksmithphotos.info/blog_images/081712-RAVENS_LIONS-001-web....
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 1:05 PM on 09.21.12
->> DUDE!!! I just saw that guy at the Cowboys-Seahawks game (if you could call it that). Anyone know what the plan is for that? Some sort of GoPro pano?
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Andrew Brosig, Photo Editor, Photographer
Nacogdoches | TX | United States | Posted: 1:55 PM on 09.21.12
->> My first reaction was "what the hell is that and how do we kill it!"

But I think GJ is right - looks like some kind of hybrid GoPro creature that got loose from its keeper.
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Max Simbron, Photographer, Assistant
Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 2:09 PM on 09.21.12
->> It's a Bullet time effect rig. GoPro does this for action sports all the time:
http://gopro.com/videos/xgames/ryan-sheckler-skate-street-course-preview-su.../

go to :23, you'll see the video freeze, pan across, then continue.

This was made popular by the Matrix, and the original effect has been attributed to two different directors. One of them is Michel Gondry (Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Be Kind Rewind).

By setting up a series of cameras with a common focal point, you can change the perspective of the video while freezing it. The more cameras in series, the longer the bullet time can be held.

I've personally seen "portable" rigs by GoPro with 50 cameras at X-Games.

Studio rigs do not need to be in a line, but can go around a subject to show a less static pan effect during the bullet time. eg:
http://sabia.tic.udc.es/gc/Contenidos%20adicionales/trabajos/Peliculas/FX/i...
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Michael Chang, Photographer
Robertsdale | AL | USA | Posted: 2:20 PM on 09.21.12
->> Ahhhh! Not this effect again?! I got real sick of it after the Matrix.
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Patrick Fallon, Photographer, Assistant
Torrance | California | USA | Posted: 2:35 PM on 09.21.12
->> Saw this at the X-Games, made for some cool footage
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 3:26 PM on 09.21.12
->> I saw some stuff they shot of surfing with tht rig and it was awesome.
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 3:41 PM on 09.21.12
->> :49 seconds into the video. The effect is cooler.

Let's see there are 20 of them on the bar. At $129 each, that's $2,600. Could be kind of fun to shoot a high school basketball game with this kind of rig. What kid wouldn't want a b-time sequence on YouTube of them dunking or driving to the hole?
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 3:44 PM on 09.21.12
->> So, basically the guy in the photo Robert posted is hoping to create a "bullet effect" of a bunch of football players huddled in a circle.

Awesome.
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 4:26 PM on 09.21.12
->> Max -- thanks man!
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Andrew Brosig, Photo Editor, Photographer
Nacogdoches | TX | United States | Posted: 4:46 PM on 09.21.12
->> If you look at the video Max posted, at about the 45+ second mark, you can see the rig in the background.
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Joe Morahan, Photographer
Denver | CO | | Posted: 8:54 PM on 09.21.12
->> chuck....I think this is that video you are talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZPmABrLu8&feature=player_embedded
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Joe Morahan, Photographer
Denver | CO | | Posted: 8:55 PM on 09.21.12
->> bts:
http://www.petapixel.com/2010/10/02/52-canon-5d-mark-ii-cameras-used-for-ma.../
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 9:00 PM on 09.21.12
->> Actually my point is ...

Just another friggin' thing to stand in front of us while we're trying to cover a game ...
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Richard Orr, Photographer
Longmeadow | MA | USA | Posted: 10:39 PM on 09.21.12
->> But...they are TV guys. And everyone knows TV is most important because, you know, they are TV guys.
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Scott Sewell, Photographer
Topeka | KS | USA | Posted: 11:10 PM on 09.21.12
->> Clark, where are you finding GoPro cameras at $129/each? I don't anticipate buying another 19, but I'd certainly pick a couple more at that price!! Wowsa!!
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Michael Granse, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 11:28 PM on 09.21.12
->> Does anyone make a hot shoe mount for the time effect rig?
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Perrone Ford, Photographer
Tallahassee | FL | US | Posted: 11:41 PM on 09.21.12
->> I don't think this is a bullet time effect. For several reasons.

1. For that to be effective, the rig has to curve around the subject to offer varying perspective.

2. Bullet time effects are best done with still cameras, not small video cameras. The object is to get the SAME moment in time from multiple perspectives around the subject. This rig wouldn't do that.


I could be wrong, but just my thoughts...
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Paul W Gillespie, Photographer
Annapolis | MD | USA | Posted: 12:52 AM on 09.22.12
->> These guys need to be stopped. During the Ravens-Bengals game a few weeks ago, Ray Rice runs in a TD and before he can even get up and celebrate a TV Camera Pointer runs into the end zone. Ray gets up and starts to run and celebrate and he runs right into the camera guy. Knocking Rice to the ground. So not only did the TV camera pointer ruin everyone else's celebration shots, he ruined Rice's moment and could have injured a franchise running back. Of course it will take a player being injured to get the NFL to keep these guys off the field, after all they are paying big bucks to be there and screw everyone else.

Rice and the TV pointer.
http://youtu.be/3r7K51w5qhU
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John Howley, Photographer
Circleville | OH | USA | Posted: 2:31 AM on 09.22.12
->> Scott, I just looked at the GoPro site and they are selling the originals for $129. I've been wanting to buy one myself and just may have to get one at that price.
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 10:53 AM on 09.22.12
->> @Scott.
http://gopro.com/cameras/hd-hero-naked-camera/

That price has me tempted, too.
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 11:01 AM on 09.22.12
->> @Robert
"Just another friggin' thing to stand in front of us while we're trying to cover a game ..."

My thoughts exactly. Wait til next year they'll have three guys, side by side, each holding a similar rig.


@Perrone
1. Yeah, that's what I thought as well.

2. I think still would be better, too. I imagine they are using individual video frames to create the effect which could be somewhat easier since you don't have to worry about sequencing shutter releases.
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Max Simbron, Photographer, Assistant
Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:28 PM on 09.22.12
->> Perrone, Clark:

1) Yes, a curved or longer track makes for a better bullet time, but a look at the video I posted, or even any other examples by GoPro shows the effect, and it is still pretty good. Proximity to the subject is another variable, as a small 3 foot track wouldn't be as effect from 10 feet away as it would be from 2 feet away. I also think a curved track in a live situation vs a movie shoot would be really hard to pull off.

2) Clark, the GoPro people have a timing cable for their 3D kit. I never asked but I would guess that they have a multisync cord for their track rigs, such that they could coordinate the recording between all units simultaneously.

When I spoke to someone manning a rig, he told me that they had to manually tune the focus for each of 50 cameras and that even an inadvertent nudge to any one of the cameras (especially in the middle) would force them to recalibrate. This leads me to believe they have figured out how to sync everything remotely or at least from a wired trigger.

And yes, stills would be better quality, but for the effect, you need the video from camera 1 until you hit your effect time, then a still for each consecutive frame from the next camera, so

00:01 - 10:00 would be camera 1
10:01 - camera 2
10:02 - camera 3

until you get to camera 50, at which point you continue using the video from camera 50, so
11:19 camera 49
11:20 - 20:00 - camera 50

You could, in theory, have the middle cameras shoot still, but then you'd have to really time it so you got the right moment to change perspective. With video, you could shoot everything and then pick and choose the best moments to effect up.
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Dave Prelosky, Photographer
Lower Burrell | Pa | US | Posted: 7:48 PM on 09.22.12
->> Max,
from the I Just Know Enough to be Dangerous Department - I can't imagine GoPro has NTSC time coding embedded, so how do they manage the sync?
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Max Simbron, Photographer, Assistant
Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 4:53 AM on 09.23.12
->> Dave,

the sync cable really just synchronizes the "button push" to record. In fact, they do sell a sync cable for their 3D kit, which can sync two units. I would guess they used the same technology to create a daisy chain for multiple units.

While syncing timecode would be great, as long as you can electronically trigger all units at the same time both on and off, the footage length and timing should be the same for all cameras.

Here's a link that talks about a surfing video with a 48 camera rigged and all shooting synced 720p 60 fps.

http://www.definitionmagazine.com/journal/2011/10/11/48-gopro-rig-for-bulle...
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Patrick Smith, Photographer
Baltimore | MD | USA | Posted: 10:01 AM on 09.23.12
->> Thanks for sharing, Bert.

This can be annoying, sure. But when life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
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Vinny Carchietta, Photographer
Mine Hill | NJ | USA | Posted: 10:36 AM on 09.23.12
->> Here is your example of the steady-cam NFL guy.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/253007_4682166772072_1334368941...

You can tell how happy I was that he jumped in front as Ahmad Bradshaw was running at at us for a TD vs Dallas on opening night.

A few seconds before he had security make me have my 300 behind the dotted line, so he did not run into it. It was crossing the vertical plane of the dotted line.

That is actually not my complaint. He has a job to do and I understand that.

My complaint is the guy holding his clothes hanger, the guys with the wires and the the guy that stands next to the TV time out guy. They have no common courtesy for anyone behind. They can take a knee, slide left or right, just take a quick glance behind them.
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David Harpe, Photographer
Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 11:21 AM on 09.23.12
->> While syncing timecode would be great, as long as you can electronically trigger all units at the same time both on and off, the footage length and timing should be the same for all cameras.

A sync cable just makes it easier to start...doesn't really help for sync purposes. There will always be slight differences in start times depending on the camera/card even with a cable.

The way you sync multiple cameras is old-school: Roll all of the cameras, then use a clapboard/strobe pop/clap your hands together in full view of all of the cameras to create a marker.

You also want to marker the cameras at the end before you shut them off. Non-pro cameras will drift with respect to one another in a surprisingly short period of time. By having a start and end marker on each camera you can take the footage into your editor and line up both reference points by tweaking durations on the clips. It's easiest to do this by dropping all of the clips on the same timeline, lining up the start markers on each clip, then figure out which one is shortest by looking at the end marker. You then adjust the duration so that the end markers on all of the clips line up. It's a little tedious to do, but it works.

I usually like to have a marker with audio (clapboard) because it's really easy to see alignment when you display the audio waveforms. This method isn't sub-frame accurate like a true genlock/timecode setup would be, but it's close enough to let you cut between the cameras pretty seamlessly. I use AE to do it, but you can do it with other NLEs and I think some will do it automatically (I think Premiere's multi-camera mode will do this - of course it only handles 4 cameras).
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Aaron Jaffe, Photographer, Student/Intern
San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 9:11 PM on 09.23.12
->> How do you edit this? Is there a preset or some type of program that merges the footage?
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Baron Sekiya, Photographer, Photo Editor
Hilo | HI | USA | Posted: 1:28 AM on 09.24.12
->> Pretty cool bullet-time sequences in the Ken Block airborne footage. http://youtu.be/LuDN2bCIyus

But yeah, I wouldn't want that set-up in front of anything I have to shoot.
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Scott Sewell, Photographer
Topeka | KS | USA | Posted: 1:56 AM on 09.25.12
->> Thanks for the links, guys. I was aware that the original Hero sold for that, but the difference between the Hero and the Hero2, IMO, is enough that I wouldn't even consider the original Hero.
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Richard Hurtado, Photographer
Temecula | CA | USA | Posted: 2:15 AM on 09.25.12
->> Actually the GoPro has gone up in price. If you want the Hero2 (which is what you should buy) is $299. You can find them on sale if you shop around. I recently paid $249 for my Hero2. Not sure what is being sold for $129 but I would stay away from it!
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 10:22 AM on 09.25.12
->> I have both models....I barely use the original because the options with the hero2 and the file sizes make a BIG difference in the quality. especially if the light gets bad...
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Darin Sicurello, Photographer, Assistant
Gilbert | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:06 PM on 09.25.12
->> They have a wireless controller + Wifi Combo for the new Hero 2 at the there NAB demo this year.

http://gopro.com/hd-hero-accessories/wi-fi-bacpac-remote-combo/
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Thread Title: Ugh.
Thread Started By: Robert Hanashiro
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