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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

ADAY.org TOMORROW!!!
Donald Miralle, Photographer
Leucadia | CA | USA | Posted: 1:25 PM on 05.14.12
->> On tomorrow May 15, 2012 for one day thousands around the world will use the power of photography to create, share and compare perspectives on daily life on ADAY.org. If you haven't planned to already, you should pick up your camera tomorrow and participate! To learn more or sign up go to http://www.aday.org.
 This post is:  Informative (2) | Funny (0) | Huh? (1) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 3:10 PM on 05.14.12
->> From the website's "About" page:

"What will happen to the photos?

All images will be displayed online for you and everyone to explore. Some of them will be selected for a book, A Day In the World, to be published in October 2012, others shown in exhibitions, either printed or digital. Every single one will be saved for future research and inspiration. The photos will never be used for commercial purposes. They will always be treated with care and respect. Should your photo be selected to feature in a book, we will try to contact you beforehand."

It's really nice of them that, if your photo is selected for the book, they will "try to contact you." I wonder if they will "try to pay you" as well?
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 3:16 PM on 05.14.12
->> Doesn't look like you should expect compensation if your work is selected for the book:

http://www.aday.org/about/questions-and-answers

This project should be re-named, "Work for Free Day!"

At least America 24/7 gave some sort of compensation for submitted work they published. If I remember right, it was a Nikon point-and-shoot or something.
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 3:43 PM on 05.14.12
->> From the terms and conditions:

"You hereby grant to Us a global, perpetual, sub-licensable, royalty-free, license to use the Material, in original or redimensioned form, by making copies of the Material and making the Material available to the public in all currently existing and future media, within the frame of the Project and for promotion of the Project, including use on the Website, in the Book, in the Exhibitions and for research purposes. For the avoidance of doubt, We are entitled to enable media partners, e.g. newspapers, TV and web channels, to publish Material for editorial coverage of the Project."

Also note:

"There is no fee for participating in the Project; nor will you receive any compensation for submitting Material to the Project. However, if any of the pictures that You have submitted to Us is selected to be included in the Book and/or displayed at an Exhibition, You will receive a copy of the Book (English language edition). (For the avoidance of doubt, even if a picture is both published in the Book and displayed at one or more Exhibitions, You will only receive one copy of the Book.) No other remuneration will be paid or awarded for the use of the Material."

Additionally:

"Pictures and other Material will be made available to the public, for example for download from the Website in a low-resolution format. It is Our ambition that such downloading and further use of pictures and Material is made for a non-commercial purposes only, such as for teaching and research. We shall, however, not be liable in any cases where pictures or Material have been used by a third party and We have no obligation to take measures against such use."

I suggest you read them (
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/org.aday.www.images/Legal/Aday.org+Terms...) in full before participating.
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 3:44 PM on 05.14.12
->> Mr. Boner wrote: "This project should be re-named, "Work for Free Day!""

Well said, sir.
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Willis Glassgow, Photo Editor, Photographer
Florence | SC | USA | Posted: 5:36 PM on 05.14.12
->> Don....I hate to pile on, but WHY would you want to participate in something like this?.....What is your incentive?
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Stew Milne, Photographer
Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 8:31 AM on 05.15.12
->> @Bradly. Compensation for the America 24/7 project was an Olympus P&S (5 mp), the Adobe Creative Suite, two CF cards and future reprint usage fees.
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 9:31 AM on 05.15.12
->> Ah, yes. All that was so much better than cash.
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Stew Milne, Photographer
Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 10:52 AM on 05.15.12
->> I do believe there was a $500 cash payment as well. That was so long ago.
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 11:28 AM on 05.15.12
->> I know a couple of shooters who had work published in 24/7 and I'm fairly certain there was no cash compensation involved. I could be mistaken, though.

Back to the topic at hand, is anyone working for free today?
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
Sycamore | IL | USA | Posted: 12:42 PM on 05.15.12
->> Bradley some sports photographer named Bill Frakes is donating his time and images to APAD.com today. I don't know if he's any good because as far as I can tell he's not a member of SportsShooter. Only the best (and certainly wisest) members can belong here and I have no clue how I slipped through the cracks.

Someone needs to sit that guy down and have a long talk about giving his talent away or he'll never make it in this business.
 This post is:  Informative (1) | Funny (1) | Huh? (1) | Off Topic (1) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Donald Miralle, Photographer
Leucadia | CA | USA | Posted: 2:30 PM on 05.15.12
->> I guess Reza, Kristen Ashburn, Walter Estrada, Mary Ann Golon, Brian Storm, Aidan Sullivan, Bill Frakes, Stephen Mayes, Finbarr O'Reilly, Bill Frakes, Desmond Tutu, Richard Branson, myself and the thousands of others who have freely given their time for something bigger than themselves are idiots. I guess you won't see a Boner on that list because there's no cash. If I remember correctly I, and many other photographers who are not members or no longer on Sportsshooter.com, didn't get in photojournalism for the money or free swag. Many of you have to step back and look in the mirror and ask yourself why you picked up a camera. Unfortunately reading this thread and many of the posts on this message board makes me sad, depressed and embarrassed to be part of Sportsshooter.
 This post is:  Informative (13) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Butch Miller, Photographer
Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 3:08 PM on 05.15.12
->> Donald ... I don't think it's so much about money or free swag for the participants ... but someone is at least considering to make money on the "Project" ... and in typical fashion, whoever that entity is appears to want to exclude the contributors from that process ... other than a free copy of the book ... so where is the money going? There is more here to consider than just being charitable ... which many here are very giving folks.

Are the layout/designer folks working on the book donating their services as well ... is the printing house donating the materials for the book (paper/covers/ink/binding) for a free copy of same? Are the organizers underwriting any of their own costs from the proceeds of the book? Are the pressmen working for free on this Project? ... If there are any funds raised beyond the cost of the Project ... where are they to be distributed once the Project is completed? ...

I didn't research the link you shared in depth to find out because the Project is already underway ... but for this to be considered just one more effort for us to contribute to yet another "something for nothing" effort can and does get a bit old ... It's not about some SS members refusing to be charitable ... it's about reading the fine print and asking questions before blindly jumping in, regardless of the high profile names of who is already on board ...

When we are constantly beleaguered with requests on a daily basis to provide our wares gratis for the greater good ... even commercial entities are doing this more and more each day ... because photography has been so devalued it has become quite common for those who wish to use our works have little to no incentive to pay for our efforts, charitable or otherwise ... making many of us a little more than leery about participating in such projects ... doing so can often come back to haunt your bottom line ... something Richard Branson does not have to concern himself with by his participation ...
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 5:34 PM on 05.15.12
->> From ADAY.org's site:

"Our mission is to use the power of photography to create, share and inspire perspectives on daily life today and tomorrow."

Sounds like what I do every day for the newspaper I work for. The difference is that the newspaper I work for sees value in the images I produce for them.

Don't worry, Donald, I certainly don't rake in the cash with my job, but I, too, get that fuzzy feeling quite often. It just doesn't come from working for free for someone who may or may not use the images I submit. It comes from doing the job I get paid to do right here in my own community:

http://info.jhpropertyguide.com/jackson-hole-lifestyle-blog/bid/145207/jack...
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 9:26 PM on 05.15.12
->> Um, guys... this project is organized by a non-profit, in the states it'd be labeled a 501-(c)3, and is being supervised by a council of some of the most trusted and respected people on the planet.

No harm is likely to come to you, your business or the industry as a whole if you upload an image from today's take for the greater good. It's no different than donating a print to a charity auction, setting aside a day to speak to a group of students or surprising a local children's hospital by sending them an invoice for $0 for a recent shoot. We've all done it.

Nothing to see here; so I'll repeat it again... it's a non-profit.
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 10:12 PM on 05.15.12
->> Ah, a non-profit...so they shouldn't have to pay fair price for anything.

That's a lousy excuse.

I'm sympathetic to those who wish to give of their time and talent to a cause they value. I think some of the knee-jerk cries of "Rights Grab!" or "Scab!" can be a little ridiculous sometimes.

In all of the shouting here, there's been little discussion of the what and why behind the project.

Donald Miralle, I have immense respect for you and your work. But frankly, the day-before, minimalist, "you-should-do-this" post doesn't say much about this project. Kind of a last-minute, afterthought sort of thing. If this is such a special thing, I'd expect more of a defense than name-dropping (including your own, which the original post could well have been construed as).
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David Harpe, Photographer
Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 10:52 PM on 05.15.12
->> You could send them a picture of an empty wallet...
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 11:17 PM on 05.15.12
->> Oh, a non-profit? Well, that changes everything. I have a non-profit rate I'd be more than willing to offer them.

Why is it that people interpret "We're a non-profit" to mean, "We have no money"? I've freelanced for several non-profits, including the National Parks Foundation and the Humane Society of the United States, both of which have annual budgets in the millions, if not tens of millions of dollars, and they've all paid me for my work, albeit at a non-profit rate. And you know what? It had a dual benefit in that it felt good AND it paid my mortgage.

Believe me, I live in a mecca of non-profits; social, environmental, conservation, wildlife, you name it. Of course, most of these don't have the kind of money the NPF or HSUSA have, and of course their main objective is to save as much as possible on costs in order to further their cause, but a non-profit who says "we don't have money for photography" is either poorly-managed financially or lying. Seriously, what kind of non-profit doesn't budget for promotion and/or advertising for their cause?
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 11:32 PM on 05.15.12
->> Never mind... I mean really...
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Jonathan Moore, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 3:50 AM on 05.16.12
->> I've never seen such cynical garbage on these message boards. Wait, I have, several times, which is why I rarely post and ultimately let my membership lapse six months ago. Clearly nothing has changed.

I get it. We all have to make a living and you don't want to work for free. I respect that. Having said that, why is it that every time someone proposes a cool new idea, you all switch to "I'm being ripped off, time to complain about it" mode? Couldn't you all have just commented on the actual PROJECT Donald was referring to? What ever happened to inspiring people to create art for the sake of art?? Isn't that why we're all members of this community? Did ANYONE find this project to be remotely interesting? This is a very cool idea that was clearly posted with enthusiasm and instead of giving your opinions about the actual PROJECT, you all responded with blatant negativity hoping that everyone else would join you in rolling your eyes. For what it's worth, I'm not rolling my eyes about this, because doing so would contradict every reason why I became a photographer in the first place.

As for the name dropping, there's a reason why Donald and the others are such successful photographers. They have gained the respect of others and built a name for themselves by staying true to their VISION and they treating photography as an ART. Money second, photography first. The money will come. It did for these people.

A couple questions: First, why are you all photographers? Second, and more importantly, when is the last time you experienced the PROCESS of making an image that perfectly fits your vision? We all know that feeling when we've captured a winning shot. It's amazing. There's nothing more self satisfying, at least for me. I challenge you all to go out and experience that again. Your time would be better spent doing that than bickering incessantly on these message boards. Let's make a commitment on Sports Shooter to focus on photography as an art. Let's offer constructive criticism and HELP each other improve our craft!
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 8:47 AM on 05.16.12
->> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pdWAcK6Eh8
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (2) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Paul Alesse, Photographer
Coram | NY | USA | Posted: 10:15 AM on 05.16.12
->> Since all the "big wigs" of this forum have chimed in on this topic, this would be a good time to ask this question.

How can I get a credential for the upcoming NFL season?
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Cy Cyr, Photographer
Orlando | FL | United States | Posted: 2:09 PM on 05.16.12
->> I have worked with, assisted and partied with Donald Miralle. I have also hired - referred work to Donald, through my http://www.sportsphotographer.net website. I was with him a few months ago, and with Octavian Cantilli, when Donald won his sports photographer of the year award.

He's one of the hardest working, successful sports photographers in the business. He has dedicated his life to sports photography. Donald makes his money shooting for the biggest magazines, professional sports teams and corporations.

If Donald wants to share a press release about a project where he will "share and compare perspectives on DAILY life" through photography, then good for him. He's not sharing it on sportsshooter.com for his own benefit. Nobody asked him to travel across the country to shoot a ball game for free. Nobody asked him to shoot an ironman for free. Nobody even asked him to pick up his camera! He decided to give his time and talents to be a part of something bigger than himself, donate a few minutes or hours of his day, and suggested you take a look too. If you don't want to be a part of "Shoot for Free Day," then don't participate.

I respect everyones business sense on sportsshooter.com. It impresses me, and it's extremely important. Everyone should read the fine print. I would never ask anyone to work for free. Not even for a non-profit. It's a personal decision where or if to donate your time and energy.

I can guarantee you that his intentions were good. I can also guarantee you that Donald RARELY WORKS FOR FREE. I'm not sure why I felt the need to write this, he definitely doesn't need my endorsement.

It also appears that Donald is pissed, so expect a FIFTH Sports Photographer POY.

Blanco, Clegg, Moore and Miralle, I'm with you....

By the way, if you're a sports photographer AND on Instagram, you should be following @walteriooss. I heard he's pretty good. He's releasing some real gems on his feed.
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Brad Mangin, Photographer
Pleasanton | CA | USA | Posted: 2:32 PM on 05.16.12
->> Cy- I want to party with Troyzan.
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Cy Cyr, Photographer
Orlando | FL | United States | Posted: 2:39 PM on 05.16.12
->> Brad, I can set that up for you.
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Thread Title: ADAY.org TOMORROW!!!
Thread Started By: Donald Miralle
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