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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Falling Bear Photographer
Paul Hayes, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Littleton | NH | USA | Posted: 3:02 PM on 04.28.12 |
| ->> So he is either a staff photographer, in which case he is entitled to nothing, or he is a freelancer who gave it to the paper without signing a contract limiting re-use and guaranteeing compensation. I don't see where he gets of taking legal action retroactively. I also think this speaks to the need for photographers to take business classes. Am I way off base? |
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Paul Hayes, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Littleton | NH | USA | Posted: 3:35 PM on 04.28.12 |
| ->> And by "entitled to nothing" I meant "no additional compensation." Either way the editor said staff reporters and photographers are unpaid volunteers. |
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Erik Markov, Photographer
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Kokomo | IN | | Posted: 3:58 PM on 04.28.12 |
->> Why does this whole story read like some janky Facebook post?
“I just jumped up and put my jeans on without brushing my teeth.” He ran down with no socks (“I don’t like wearing my running shoes without socks,” he said, explaining that he considered flip-flops but decided that would be “less professional”)
And by whole story I mean, the story between the newspaper and photographer; and the story that Poynter wrote. Poynter's story could have been a couple paragraphs at most, a lot of irrelevant info there. |
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Ethan Klosterman, Photographer
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Dayton | Ohio | | Posted: 7:09 PM on 04.28.12 |
->> http://www.splc.org/wordpress/?p=3602
Question to college newspaper advisors or editorial board members: What (if anything) do you have your photographers sign at the beginning of the year? Or if you're a staffer at a college paper, what have you had to sign in regards to ownership, licensing, etc.? |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 8:38 PM on 04.28.12 |
->> Paul,
I'm not an attorney, but if he isn't an employee (i.e. being compensated), or has signed a work for hire agreement he may well have a case - but probably not against the school newspaper. My (albeit limited) understanding of copyright is that the onus of compliance is on the publisher - not the distributor. If the school paper represented that they had the right to distribute, that is between them and the entity that published. So if I'm PaperX and I ran the image, and not the true copyright holder is coming to me demanding payment, I'm likely to pay him and then go after the school paper for reimbursement. |
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Paul Hayes, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Littleton | NH | USA | Posted: 9:45 PM on 04.28.12 |
->> Good point Mark. I guess it really does boil down to whether he's considered an employee or not. Or whether his work belongs to the school or not.
And Ethan, interesting article, thanks for posting it. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 11:01 PM on 04.28.12 |
| ->> He's entitled to $400... In layman's terms - one hour of legal fees. |
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David Minton, Photographer
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Denton | TX | USA | Posted: 11:17 PM on 04.28.12 |
| ->> I hope he got that bear to sign a model release too or else he's really up the creek... |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
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PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 1:34 AM on 04.29.12 |
| ->> He shot 300 photos in five minutes? He's not a photographer. Seriously, nothing to see here...move along....another moron who gave away his photos and now is crying about it. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
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PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 1:45 AM on 04.29.12 |
| ->> Actually what I was trying to say is in this day and age...if in truth this guy thinks he's a photographer why did he GIVE the photo to anyone? Let's be honest here, you would have to be BRAIN DEAD not to think that photo was worth something. If he was working for the paper it's not his. If he GAVE it to the paper for free, without some kind of agreement he's just another idiot with a camera who realized he made a mistake and is now crying about it. I find it very hard to feel sorry in even a little way for this guy. To me I just think he wanted to get the photo published and when he realized he could have maybe made serious money he has "giver's remorse". |
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Kent Nishimura, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Honolulu | HI | USA | Posted: 6:02 AM on 04.29.12 |
| ->> At the student paper i worked at, we kept copyright to all of our images. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 11:25 AM on 04.29.12 |
->> Mr. Liddy is correct: Unless that professor is willing to work pro bono, the kid should keep the $400 and move along.
As one of the posters wrote on the Poynter website .. if this discourages him and he moves out of photojournalism and into another type of photography they probably did him a favor... |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 3:28 PM on 04.29.12 |
->> RE: ->> At the student paper i worked at, we kept copyright to all of our images.
It doesn't matter if you keep the copyright or not if you've given full rights to the paper to distribute, license, etc. your image. Same thing with a lot of agency contracts and so-called photo contests. The fine print says you retain copyright ownership but even by just entering the contest you give the contest runners and their assigns perpetual royalty-free rights for them to not only use your images but for them to license the photo(s) to others for fees where you don't earn a penny.
Copyright means nothing if you give your stuff away for free. |
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Kent Nishimura, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Honolulu | HI | USA | Posted: 5:27 PM on 04.29.12 |
->> thanks for the reply doug, i was making a general reply to Ethan Klosterman's question.
you do raise a good point.
I got paid for the work i did, kept copyright and had the option to get paid more if the picture was going to be used again. even as a file photo. |
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Jeff Gammons, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Destin | Fl | USA | Posted: 9:41 PM on 04.29.12 |
| ->> I don't know about all this copyright stuff, but I always get a good laugh when I see the picture itself. It should have won a poyi. |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 10:14 PM on 04.29.12 |
| ->> @Jeff - since the photo was only taken three or four days ago, it still has a chance to win in POYi. |
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Richard Orr, Photographer
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Longmeadow | MA | USA | Posted: 11:35 AM on 04.30.12 |
->> "I didn't sign a contract."
But you let your work go out of your hand?
And this kid is a grad student?
By the time I graduated from college with a BS, I understood what a contract was.
He should be suing the school for not educating him. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
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PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 9:55 AM on 05.01.12 |
->> "On Monday, Duann said he doesn't want any money for the photo, and has turned down all offers. He said he simply wants acknowledgement he owns the photo."
and this my friends is why the business is dying. |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 11:32 AM on 05.04.12 |
->> Minton:
You seriously just made my day. |
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Jeff Lewis, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 1:24 AM on 05.06.12 |
->> When did it become okay for photo credit to be used as payment? I'd rather not see my name in writing and see a check in my pocket. Taking credit or just simply ownership is a poor way of doing business, especially if ownership might not get you a dime.
The picture of the bear is a great and unique shot and those who use it should have to pay for it. I'd sue and not be happy for my name in print.
..... People and companies who have no money used to come to me and say, we will give you credit or this will help you build your portfolio, and I always tell them to check out my website and take a look for yourself that I don't need your job for a portfolio piece and I could care less if my name is posted next to the pic.
Who remembers the name anyway.... besides other photographers? All my non-photographer friends who read Sports Illustrated can't name any of their photographers.
I know that last line might sound bad and I have some very good friends who shoot for SI but its true. The only thing that matters in this world is taking care of your family and yourself. Making great pictures is and always will be secondary to that so forget credit. We need to get paid nicely for being very creative since people are so in demand to use our creativity!!!
Jeff |
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Nic Coury, Photographer
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Monterey | CA | | Posted: 2:20 AM on 05.06.12 |
->> "I'd rather not see my name in writing and see a check in my pocket"
Jeff, you and me both dude.
I get my share of "we'll give you a photo credit" emails and such and non-photo friends say they look for my credit on published photos, but they get weirded out when I say I don't mind if it's not there as long as I'm paid... |
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