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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Game Rate
David Hague, Photographer
Pittsburgh | Pa | USA | Posted: 4:44 PM on 11.19.11
->> I shot for a number of years as a student and got paid student rates (Cheap). I have been doing limited items while trying to get more bussiness. I was contact about a game rate for a sporting event. I was looking for a little guidance in where to price it. As a student I would recieve 45-55. So my any help would be appriciated.
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David Hague, Photographer
Pittsburgh | Pa | USA | Posted: 4:56 PM on 11.19.11
->> Game and travel rate would be mainly waht i am looking for
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Kevin M. Cox, Photographer, Assistant
Galveston & Houston | TX | US | Posted: 6:22 PM on 11.19.11
->> David, it really depends on how the client plans to use the photos. Is this a newspaper, team, corporate client, shooting for a parent, etc?

Off topic, but why were you only getting a "student rate" in the past? Solely because of the fact that you were still in school or because less was expected of you, less photographs were provided/used or you were just assisting the "pro" photographer?
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Jesse Beals, Photographer
Tracyton | WA | USA | Posted: 6:50 PM on 11.19.11
->> Newspaper day rates / game rates $150 (4-8 photos)
Magazine day rates / game rates $250-300 (5-12 photos)
College day rates / game rates $250-400 (10-30 photos)
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (5) | Huh? (3) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

David Hague, Photographer
Pittsburgh | Pa | USA | Posted: 7:31 PM on 11.19.11
->> I was getting paid a student rate because I was a student while shooting I would be able to string for news papers when they needed them. To be honest it was a lot of cheap labor as the photos were used for media guides stories on the sports site and various othe ways. This event would be a 7 hour (1 way) trip for a company that is contracted from a university and the photographer is not able to make it.
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 7:46 PM on 11.19.11
->> David...

Now we need more info on the company since we may be talking corporate rates which are usually at least double editorial.

What type company? A local small business type with limited budget or one like Nike who pays thousands for ad campaign photography? Is the shoot for the company, or did the university subcontract with the company to find a photographer for it?

And how big a school? There's a huge difference between a Top 25 ranked Division I team and a Division II that hardly anyone hears of.

And what sport? Football is a long day with basic gear while basketball is a shorter one that may need the installation of strobes.

And what are they asking for? Less than a half dozen shots or two dozen?

All these factors combined or separately can play a significant role in determining your price. But first and foremost, you need to split your pricing into two parts -- one for doing the shoot and one for licensing the images in accordance to the needs. If you quote one price for everything, then they'll assume they can use the images for anything they want. But if you have your creative fee separated, then they can only use the images for what they say they want them for; and if they want them for other uses down the line they must pay additional licensing fees. That's how you make your money; and that's how agencies like Getty, AP Images, Corbis, etc. make theirs.
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Sam Morris, Photographer
Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 9:24 PM on 11.19.11
->> "But if you have your creative fee separated, then they can only use the images for what they say they want them for; and if they want them for other uses down the line they must pay additional licensing fees. That's how you make your money; and that's how agencies like Getty, AP Images, Corbis, etc. make theirs."

Just wanted to repeat that.

Thanks Doug.
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
Boise | ID | US | Posted: 9:30 PM on 11.19.11
->> If you look at the last USPW thread I have an over the top rant about where profit-centric rates come from. I've been undercut one too many times I think :)

A lot of clients will just say it's too much, but it's up to you to learn to sell yourself/your work and overcome that barrier. It's always good to run the numbers on what it costs to live outside of school - $25,000 net income is not enough in most places. That might sound like a lot coming out of school and being single, but it's really not that much.

Having made the switch, it's amazing how much more people will respect you when you quote rates that result in you taking a good profit. It's allowed me to put a lot more work and time into shoots, so the results are a huge step above what I could afford to turn out otherwise. Clients that hire me are happy to work with me, and the (previous) clients that balk at my prices? I don't have to worry about them anymore :)
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David Hague, Photographer
Pittsburgh | Pa | USA | Posted: 10:16 PM on 11.19.11
->> Thank you all for the help I have a better understanding now...it is a company that would use all the photos I took from the whole game there would be no set up of strobes or anything else. As for the use it is a company hired by the University. As for the use of the photos it would be mainly for highlight videos, articles by the university, and other promotional items.
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 1:23 AM on 11.20.11
->> Israel, you get it! Charging cheap gets no respect. Charging a real rate allows you to make a living and it sends a subliminal message that's you're a real business person.

Congrats!
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 12:16 PM on 11.20.11
->> David...

So it sounds like the company is a PR firm. That means higher than regular editorial fees because you're producing a product that is essentially advertising the university. After all, who wants bad PR?

But you didn't say how many photos they're looking for? That's a big factor! Remember that this type job is going to require high quality post-production work which can take longer than the game itself depending on the number of photos requested. For editorial work in newspapers your images will be forgotten with the delivery of tomorrow's paper. And sooner if used in an Internet gallery.

It sounds like your images are going to showcase the university. That's the same as a magazine running a photo on its cover versus inside. The image is the same, but on the cover it is being used to "sell" the publication; to be eye candy for the consumer to pick up the mag off the rack and buy it. That's why cover usage pays more than inside work -- it is worth more. In your case, you're not producing work to be viewed once and forgotten; you're producing eye-candy to be remembered.

Have you asked the company what their budget is? If not, do. And remember one important aspect of subcontracting: the lower the price they can hire you translates directly to a higher profit margin for them. It is not uncommon for agencies to hire a shooter for a couple hundred for a client who is paying over a thousand plus for the service. The client doesn't know what the photographer is being paid and doesn't care. If dealing directly with the end client, the pay may be easily acceptable, but with the middleman involved your cut may be considerably less.

The PR firm knows exactly what they've budgeted for the photographer because they've already entered into a contract with the university. Ask for the number. Unless they are going be standing next to you directing you to shoot this and shoot that, their entire role is nothing more than doing the billing paperwork while you're supplying the gear, doing the shooting, doing the post-production work, delivering the images, etc. Depending on the number of images, your time can easily be 10+ hours overall (including travel and setup time); and for the PR company 10 minutes to generate the invoice. So who should be getting the bulk of the payment?
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Robert Seale, Photographer
Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 12:40 PM on 11.20.11
->> Jesse,

I marked your message "huh" because there is no "WTF" available.
 This post is:  Informative (4) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 5:20 PM on 11.20.11
->> Jesse, I marked your message "huh" because there is no "You Must Be Dreaming" button available.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

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Thread Title: Game Rate
Thread Started By: David Hague
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