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Reuters photographer accused of "shopping" photograph of rpg
Rob Shook, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Keith Crowley, Photographer
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Hudson | WI | USA | Posted: 7:03 AM on 09.28.11 |
| ->> If you take away the flash (which certainly looks iffy) it looks like a guy talking on a cell phone to me. |
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Luke Johnson, Photographer, Student/Intern
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St.Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 10:32 AM on 09.28.11 |
| ->> What also makes no sense is what he is shooting at. There are no cars, to buildings, no nothing that I can see that could be considered a target for an RPG attack. All I see are some light polls and trees in the distance. |
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James Spiker, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Tahoe Vista | CA | | Posted: 10:44 AM on 09.28.11 |
->> His left arm looks like it is supporting a crutch rather than the barrel of an RPG. Never fired an RPG, but a M-4 is hard enough to fire one handed.
I know the verdict is not yet in on this one, but why does it seem that Reuters is always involved in photo scandals of this kind? The Israeli raid on the Gaza flotilla and the Lebanese rocket attacks in 2005 also centered around Reuters photographs. |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 11:15 AM on 09.28.11 |
| ->> James - there have been plenty of manipulated photographs moved by wire services other than Reuters, including the AP, Getty. It's not a isolated to Reuters. |
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
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Murfreesboro | TN | U.S. | Posted: 1:40 PM on 09.28.11 |
->> Reading through some of the comments, I noticed this link that helps determine if a photo has been manipulated. And while I still don't seem to be able to understand how it works, maybe someone here can throw some tests at it out of curiousity.
http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/37b2a44/ |
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
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Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 4:05 PM on 09.28.11 |
| ->> To me, the most damning thing is the lack of a shadow of the weapon or the launch "flash" on the ground. |
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Gavin Werbeloff, Photographer
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San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 7:30 PM on 09.28.11 |
| ->> The base of the second crutch is to the left of his left foot. So a guy requiring a pair of crutches to walk has the physical ability to fire an RPG? Something doesn't feel right here. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 12:15 AM on 09.29.11 |
->> I ain't sayin' nothin' after laughed my booty off about the pathetic video footage from the D.C. quake...
However, go to the direct link: http://blogs.reuters.com/fullfocus/files/2011/09/01EditorsChoiceRTR2RRL1.jp... and blow the photo up. It looks like a dude sitting in his living room, backlit, wearing a blue shirt and jeans talking to someone on the right who is looking at him. |
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Chris Curry, Photographer
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Houston | TX | United States | Posted: 1:18 AM on 09.29.11 |
| ->> If I were Reuters I would ask the photographer to produce some outtakes. If this is real, then I'm sure the photographer was able to get some pictures just after the person fired the RPG. What kind of damage did the RPG do? Where is that photo? |
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Blaine McCartney, Photographer
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Sheridan | WY | USA | Posted: 10:47 AM on 09.29.11 |
->> "The base of the second crutch is to the left of his left foot."
And it doesn't even cast a slight shadow. |
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Pat Lovell, Photographer
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Bloomington | IN | US | Posted: 1:41 PM on 09.29.11 |
| ->> The blast looks strange near his head, it looks like a true back blast except by his hair, it's not consistant with the rest of it and his hair coloring is darker there. It gives me the impression of being cloned in that area and the edges of the blast there are very pixelated and square, while the rest of the back blast seems normal. |
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
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Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 3:22 PM on 09.29.11 |
->> "And it doesn't even cast a slight shadow."
It's there. It's very narrow and only slightly removed from the shadow if his legs/body. Look at the similar shadow of his right crutch and you'll see what to look for. |
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Chris Curry, Photographer
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Houston | TX | United States | Posted: 3:38 PM on 09.29.11 |
| ->> When Brian Walski was accused of stitching a photo together the LA Times asked for his entire take. Reuters should ask to see the rest of the take. This photo - even if it is real - does not communicate enough and leaves so many questions for viewers. |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 4:29 PM on 09.29.11 |
->> Whether the photograph has been Photoshopped or not is only part of the problem here.
If this guy is really firing an RPG at hostile forces in the treeline across the street, then why is he standing casually upright at a time when he would presumably be under fire himself? If he advanced, though be it awkwardly with the crutches, he could crouch behind one of what look like concrete planter boxes on the median, stand behind one of the lamp-posts, or lie down and use the median as cover. Instead, he is standing upright in an exposed position and after the one shot he has fired he is not only without cover but also out of ammunition. This is a very bad combination!
This brings up three possibilities:
1. The photograph is legitimate and the subject is now not only dead but VERY dead as a result of standing in the open with no cover to fire a single rocket at hostile forces in the treeline.
2. The photograph is "real" in that it is not Photoshopped and the subject is alive after standing in a street and firing an RPG at some trees because a photographer told him that an RPG launch photo would look great in his portfolio. The photograph is staged and the caption is faked.
3. The photograph is Photoshopped, and the subject is alive but suffering from an injury resulting from a motorcycle accident. The subject was talking on his cell phone to get his Tylenol-3 prescription filled at a nearby pharmacy when a photographer took his picture and later decided that it would look even better as a photograph of an RPG launch. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 5:28 PM on 09.29.11 |
| ->> I think Michael really hit the nail on the head. The caption here should not be about a guy firing an RPG. It should be about the safety of being on crutches, having a halo around your ankle, and talking on your phone while firing an RPG. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 5:29 PM on 09.29.11 |
| ->> (is halo the right term for that thing?) |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 5:33 PM on 09.29.11 |
| ->> Nice catch on the halo brace. I didn't even see it! |
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Sean D. Elliot, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Norwich | CT | USA | Posted: 7:25 PM on 09.29.11 |
| ->> the latest update says that Reuters is standing by the photo ... there's a note at the top of the peta pixel blog to that effect ... |
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Sam Morris, Photographer
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Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 3:19 AM on 09.30.11 |
->> Show me a couple frames before and a couple frames after the one in question and I'll make my judgment then. The image is fishy as hell at first glance, and there are many legitimate questions raised. But it reminds me of when I was covering the supersonic land speed record attempts on the Black Rock Desert in the '90's. On one of the runs before Richard Noble's car set the record, I sent in an image to AP that was questioned. They asked how I had sent the photo (on a Leafax IIID) or if I had cut the negative for some reason (huh? why?). I had no idea what they were talking about and took the loupe back to the neg. Sure enough, there was a weird diagonal "line" in the background of the photo that made it look like the neg was cut and slightly shifted. It turned out it was just a refraction of light caused by the car nosing into supersonic speed and the "envelope" being pushed (kind of like seeing a visual representation of it with that ring around a jet when it breaks the barrier).
Lesson learned: if you are not 100% positive, wait for an explanation. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 1:33 PM on 09.30.11 |
| ->> Drew..very COOL! |
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Chris Curry, Photographer
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Houston | TX | United States | Posted: 4:20 PM on 09.30.11 |
->> I've read the link that Drew posted.
I agree that there are many pictures that may look surreal.
But in today's world, with photo manipulation as rampant as it is and as easy as it is to create illusions, I think that it's important that we, as photojournalists and editors, have a responsibility to put content out to the public that not only is real, but does not put into question its authenticity. This picture, real or not, has put a lot of doubt into its existence to an already suspicious public.
If the picture looks "shopped" should it be used as content? At least produce other pictures from the take that give the photo context.
I am eagerly awaiting to see if Reuters will produce out takes from the frames before and after. |
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Jeff Lewis, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 8:37 PM on 09.30.11 |
->> This feels like somebody made an amazing, unbelievable catch, and the head coach is throwing the red flag for a replay..... After reading all the posts and seeing all the tests, ruling on the field is that its a great image.
Nice shot!!!
Jeff
http://www.JeffLewisPhotography.com |
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Sean D. Elliot, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Norwich | CT | USA | Posted: 9:09 PM on 09.30.11 |
->> at this point I'm willing to accept it as a legit image ...
and then question what makes it a great shot?
because it shows the flash from the back end of an RPG?
What's so great about that? It's like making a big deal about getting bat on ball for one meaningless hit in a baseball game ...
there is NO storytelling going on in that image at all. Forget the fact that we know nothing about the individual in the photo, he's firing an RPG on an empty street. The image does not expand our knowledge or understanding of the conflict, the individual or the moment depicted.
other than an object of curiosity over whether it was manipulated the image does nothing for me as a visual journalist. |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 11:37 PM on 09.30.11 |
| ->> If the photograph is legit both in not being Photoshopped AND in being part of an actual firefight I would still like to know what the person firing the rocket could possibly have been thinking in crutching their way into the middle of the street and standing upright to fire a single rocket with no visible means of defending themselves after having done so. |
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Rob Shook, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Rochester | NY | | Posted: 2:48 PM on 10.01.11 |
->> I agree Sean. The biggest reason I felt that the photo was real from the beginning was "what's the point of faking something like this?"
For me, the fact that a man on crutches is still engaged in what appears to be active combat holds a little interest, but it's obvious that any contests this photo wins are based on fascination with the capture rather than any important content. |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 4:23 PM on 10.01.11 |
->> @Sean - NO storytelling going on at all??? C'mon... IF the photo is real I think it has a fair amount of storytelling value. I mean, really, have you ever seen anyone on crutches firing a RPG? This photo tells me that some rebels are so devoted to fighting for this revolution that they are willing to do so even when they are hobbled by crutches and a halo brace around their leg. It has nothing to do with capturing the exhaust blast from a RPG.
@Michael G. - I'd like to know what the guy was thinking, too, however it's not really the photographer's job to tell you that. This guy was probably under a lot less fire than the soldiers who stormed the beaches on D-Day (who had little to no cover and were running TOWARD the people who were trying to kill them), but no one ever asks, "What were they thinking?"
Again, IF the photo's real I think it tells a story of courage and devotion to a cause, but that's just my interpretation. |
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Mike Isler, Photographer, Assistant
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New York | NY | US | Posted: 5:56 PM on 10.01.11 |
| ->> Chiming in with what others have already said...just release an outtake. Situation resolved. |
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Bob Ford, Photographer
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Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 9:14 PM on 10.01.11 |
->> Bradly, in my opinion, if the photo is trying to tell the story of the man on crutches it failed. If that's the case it should have been shot from in front of the guy showing his face and the crutches clearer.
I'm going to agree with Sean that the photo doesn't really tell a story. But, as I said, that's just my opinion. |
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
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Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 9:40 PM on 10.01.11 |
->> Wow, there are a lot of critics on this thread. Clearly everyone who is critical of the quality of the image has also photographed a civil war within yards of rebels with RPGs right?
Bob, Sean how was the weather last time you were in Sirte, Libya guys? ;-)
Not every frame that moves to the wire has to be Pulitzer-quality. Sometimes, a photojournalist's job is just to contribute, just a little bit more, to our understanding of what's happening and add to the historical record. I think this image does a good job of that.
Reuters is standing by this image and that's good enough for me. Anis, if you find yourself reading this thread: Stay safe and thank you for being there. |
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Bob Ford, Photographer
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Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 11:32 PM on 10.01.11 |
| ->> Brian, never been there, but I stand by my statement that it's not really a story telling image. I'm NOT saying it's bad, or that its Photoshopped, I just don't think it's as great of a shot as others have stated. |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 12:24 AM on 10.02.11 |
| ->> Bob, to be clear, I never actually commented on the overall quality of the photo. I only responding to Sean's statement that "there is NO storytelling going on in that image at all." |
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Chris Curry, Photographer
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Houston | TX | United States | Posted: 12:31 PM on 10.03.11 |
->> David,
We've seen that link before on this thread.
What I'm asking is that why, when there is so much controversy over this picture from viewers and photographers alike, does Reuters not produce out takes to quell the detractors?
Again, Reuters has moved pictures that have had manipulated content in the past, so one would assume that they would be eager to protect their integrity to an ever growing skeptical public. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 1:07 PM on 10.03.11 |
->> The most recent Mythbusters episode featured an RPG-related myth. They had several high-speed sequences of the RPG being launched. In the few that showed the back end of the launcher, the image was consistent with the Reuters image in content, with the exception of the oddly brighter and sharper appearance of the backblast in the still image.
BTW, an RPG launch is FAST. Launch to impact is measured in milliseconds. There is no way to capture an image similar to the Reuters still other than with pure luck.
--Mark |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 1:13 PM on 10.03.11 |
->> One other point: An RPG launcher is pretty heavy. I've held an empty one and it was about 30-40 pounds. It's hard to imagine balancing one on my shoulder while using crutches, let alone firing one.
--Mark |
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