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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Ines Sainz
Jody Gomez, Photographer
Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 3:16 PM on 09.14.10
->> I'm sure everyone has heard the story about the alleged locker room behavior of the the NY Jets towards reporter Ines Sainz.

For obvious reasons, this story caught my attention, and I am curious to hear thoughts on this subject from working professionals, as opposed to the rants that are being made by fans on the various message boards.

I realize this can be a hot-button subject, and it is not my intention to start a flame war. However, I am truly curious as to your (both guys and girls) thoughts and opinions on this matter.

Thanks.
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Alex Menendez, Photographer
Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 3:45 PM on 09.14.10
->> Ask Donald, he got to know her before the SuperBowl in Miami.....

http://www.sportsshooter.com/funpix_view.html?id=6296
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 4:19 PM on 09.14.10
->> Ines Sands is a media professional who clearly understands that a great deal of her value lies in her personal appearance. The reaction that she got from the players in the locker room were an indication that she is successful.

Sands did not file the complaint. It was filed by a third party.

--Mark
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
Murfreesboro | TN | U.S. | Posted: 4:22 PM on 09.14.10
->> If the following are his only comments, then I really don't see what he said wrong. Basically he said that women shouldn't be working in a locker room with naked, physically attractive men. I can't say that I disagree or feel the same way if it were reversed. Are male reporters allowed in the locker rooms of female athletes while they're dressing? (God, I hope I'm not quoted in a news article for this post. I really don't know a lot about it.)

/QUOTE
"You know man, I think you put women reporters in the locker room in positions to see guys walking around naked, and you sit in the locker room with 53 guys, and all of the sudden you see a nice woman in the locker room, I think men are gonna tend to turn and look and want to say something to that woman. For the woman, I think they make it so much that you can't interact and you can't be involved with athletes, you can't talk to these guys, you can't interact with these guys.

"And I mean, you put a woman and you give her a choice of 53 athletes, somebody got to be appealing to her. You know, somebody got to spark her interest, or she's gonna want somebody. I don't know what kind of woman won't, if you get to go and look at 53 men's packages. And you're just sitting here, saying 'Oh, none of this is attractive to me.' I know you're doing a job, but at the same time, the same way I'm gonna cut my eye if I see somebody worth talking to, I'm sure they do the same thing."
/END QUOTE
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Jody Gomez, Photographer
Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 5:53 PM on 09.14.10
->> Wes, those comments were made by Clinton Portis after the fact. I incident I was referring to was the initial incident between Jets players and Ines Sainz in the locker room.

To answer your question, yes, men are allowed in women's locker rooms as the sports leagues have designated the locker rooms to be work environments. For more detail on this, read this article on SI.com by Ann Killion
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ann_killion/09/14/reporters/

I'm a little surprised this subject isn't more active. Have we gotten so politically correct that we're hesitant to even talk about this stuff?
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
Murfreesboro | TN | U.S. | Posted: 7:48 PM on 09.14.10
->> Jody: I almost didn't want to post because of how easy it would be for me to come across as a knuckle-dragging redneck. I still don't know what Portis did or said other than the apology. I guess I just don't feel it's appropriate for a woman to be in a man's locker room where there is nudity and a general expectation of crass behavior. When I think of a football locker room, I picture dirty language and practical jokes. Technically it's not "fair" to women who have just as much right and ability to the same access as their male counterparts. But if a football player makes crazy jokes with a male reporter, it's all in fun. If it's with a female reporter, it's harassment.
Again, I have no clue what he did. I will easily eat my words if Portis went off the deep end and did something crazy even by football locker room standards.
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Anantachai Brown, Photographer
Jacksonville | FL | | Posted: 9:10 PM on 09.14.10
->> I will only say this....

at least dress professionally, and not like you are going to a dance club.

IMO, I don't think there should be any media in the locker rooms anyhow. Especially right after the game. What is so important where the media can't wait 15-20 minutes so the players can shower and dress. Would you want men and woman seeing your "business" while you are showering or dressing?


How long until Playboy offers a Cover and spread in the mag?
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 10:08 PM on 09.14.10
->> Women should not be in a locker room period. If they are in a locker room it is after EVERYONE is dressed.

What she wears is also inappropriate IMHO when she does interviews. You dress sexy like that and guess what men will act stupid. Especially when there are 50 of them who are working their asses off and just got out camp.

Every time I see her do interviews she is wearing something that you wear going to a club. Dress properly and you probably would be treated more professionally.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 11:16 PM on 09.14.10
->> sorry. I know lots of legitimate women journalists. this chick and erin andrews are nothing short of glorified strippers the networks pay as eye candy. I'm sure any question they ask which MIGHT make any sense is whispered in their earpiece by a producer. the REAL women journalists I have known are completely professional and don't draw any kind of illicit responses from athletes whether they be of the professional ranks or college. of course they also don't look like someone who would be doing a pole dance in your local strip club. maybe the networks should stop sending women who wear pants so tight nothing is left to anyone's imagination into the locker room. but then again....sex sells, and maybe our main mistake is confusing television with journalism...it is after all "show business".
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Jody Gomez, Photographer
Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 11:40 PM on 09.14.10
->> Interesting thoughts from everyone. Personally I haven't experienced anything like this on any sidelines. The only hazing I have experienced tapered off dramatically as I became better known in the industry. Occasionally I will have to stand my ground against a video guy who wants to stand in my space, but even that rarely happens anymore. Then again, I don't go out of my way to show off my assets either, so maybe that has a lot to do with the respect I receive on the field and in the media room.
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Mike Ullery, Photographer, Photo Editor
Piqua | OH | USA | Posted: 12:04 AM on 09.15.10
->> I will just second what Chuck said. Well put.
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
Northwest Missouri | MO | USA | Posted: 12:42 AM on 09.15.10
->> I'm with Chuck on this. I won't expound. It's far too easy to put ones foot in their mouth on this topic.
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David Meyer, Photographer
Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 1:05 AM on 09.15.10
->> The alleged comments and actions directed towards Sainz at the Jets' facility are never acceptable. Opinions of her talent and wardrobe are irrelevant.
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Jody Gomez, Photographer
Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 1:16 AM on 09.15.10
->> That's what I hate about all this politically correct bs - people should be able to say what they think. Period. Paragraph. I hate that there are some who aren't comfortable speaking their mind because of real or perceived repercussions. It's frustrating because there are those of us who actually want to have a conversation about this (even though I understand your reluctance to do so), but can't because we're so damn over regulated in this country that we won't speak up about how we feel.

Here's my take on the subject - she should dress more professionally, however we have to take into consideration that television in Mexico has different standards than television in the USA. So, even though we may think she's not dressing conservatively, she may be dressed conservatively for her country. So, while we may hope that she would dress in a way that makes us feel more comfortable, it's not really our call to make (and frankly, none of our business). That having been said, catcalls are one thing, but when guys (or girls) take it over the top and become rude or offensive, it becomes another matter. No matter what though, just because a person chooses to dress in clothes that others find provocative, no one has the right to be crude or disrespectful. It all comes down to respect for each other as individuals.

This lady didn't make the complaint herself - it was made by another member of the media - listening to her interview this morning, I got the impression that she has a thick skin. Any woman in this industry must have a thick skin to survive, so I believe her when she says that she wasn't bothered by what happened.

Personally I love flirting and anyone who knows me knows I am a big flirt myself. But there is a difference between harmless flirting and seriously looking to hook up. Even though I have the clothes that show off the assets, I would never purposely wear something provocative while shooting a game. However, if I wore something that someone found appealing, I hope they would have enough respect for me as a person to keep the crude comments and gestures to themselves.
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Nic Coury, Photographer
Monterey | CA | | Posted: 1:33 AM on 09.15.10
->> Agree with Chuck and the others.

Interesting experiment for the guys: next game you cover, wear a banana hammock and see what kind of attention you garner and how it affects your work...
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Armando Solares, Photographer
Englewood | FL | USA | Posted: 2:08 AM on 09.15.10
->> Don't you guys get it? That is her shtick (gimmick.) These men are professionals, they should act like it. I like what Mr. Meyer said.

What she wears is irrelevant. Univision last night reported that the Mexican print media started the controversy. Ms. Sainz didn't even know what happened.

I am offended looking at members of the media at funerals wearing cut-offs, shorts, tennis shoes etc.

Or when so called professionals come on this forum to ask what they should wear to a funeral?

Who cares what this woman wears to work, apparently her bosses like it! As does her audience.

And here is another thing while I'm at it. Have you ever read the game summaries and reports provided to reporters at NFL and NCAA football games? They come with quotes from the players. In more than one occasion, actually several, I have seen those quotes in stories by reporters who get paid to report.

So why is there a need for anyone to be in the locker room?

The locker rooms are also made available to the media at specific times determined by the Media relations folks of NFL teams. No one is being ambushed while taking showers etc... Players know when the cameras and paper pads are coming.

Oh and watch Mexican TV or foreign TV and you'll see she is not really underdressed.
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 4:11 AM on 09.15.10
->> Short memories...does anyone else remember Lisa Olson? Or Melissa Ludtke?

http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=3788

Allowing female journalists equal locker room access isn't just being PC, it's a fundamental issue of equality. If you let male journalists in, you have to let female journalists in, period. If I was being paid millions of dollars and anyone, male, female, or otherwise wanted to talk to me while I was naked as part of that job, sure.

What Chuck Sr said is certainly true to a degree, but who is a "real" journalist and who is "eye candy" is a subjective viewpoint. Not sure what you do about it.
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Anantachai Brown, Photographer
Jacksonville | FL | | Posted: 5:44 AM on 09.15.10
->> This isn't Mexican TV....and for matter, lets start having TMZ in the locker rooms and sidelines. "what she wears is irrelevant" is complete hog wash, or should i say toro cocka.










:)
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Anantachai Brown, Photographer
Jacksonville | FL | | Posted: 5:55 AM on 09.15.10
->> With all the issues from this woman, I'm curious to find out how often her credentials will be revoked.
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Alan Herzberg, Photographer
Elm Grove | WI | USA | Posted: 7:36 AM on 09.15.10
->> I'm with David Meyer. I'll concede that in many situations how one dresses is going to influence the way people treat you and what they think of you, but the way a woman dresses never makes it right for anyone to say or do the things the Jets players are reported to have said or done.

The news accounts I've read say that she was wearing tight blue jeans and a white blouse. Perhaps that's not standard garb for a reporter, but it's hardly the equivalent of "a banana hammock." And the fact that she is prettier than Chuck Liddy (thought to be fair, I've never seen Chuck in person), isn't an invitation to abuse.
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Alan Herzberg, Photographer
Elm Grove | WI | USA | Posted: 7:45 AM on 09.15.10
->> One more thing. One of the comments above was: "Sands did not file the complaint. It was filed by a third party." Perhaps I miss the point being made, but I don't think so.

I can think of lots of reasons why Sainz may not have filed the complaint herself. Not everyone who is sexually harassed at work (and the Jets locker room was designated as a workplace by the NFL and the Jets, I understand), files a complaint; not every one who is robbed reports it to the police or their insurance company; not every woman who is raped, reports it to the police. Why? Retaliation. Embarrassment. A shit-storm of unwanted publicity. Getting credentials pulled by the NFL (see Mr. Brown's comment above).

That Sainz didn't file the complaint doesn't somehow make what happened ok nor does it mean she was ok with it.
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 10:17 AM on 09.15.10
->> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SBQQVv_e8U
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Armando Solares, Photographer
Englewood | FL | USA | Posted: 11:01 AM on 09.15.10
->> TV Azteca is a Mexican TV network. It also operates in the United States., so it is Mexican TV.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 11:12 AM on 09.15.10
->> I just want to put something into perspective. When a journalist TRAVELS into another county isn't the custom to dress in a manner that is respectful of the HOST'S standards? I'm pretty sure that she wouldn't have been wearing that outfit if she had been interviewing a Saudi/Iranian/UAE/ soccer team.
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Butch Miller, Photographer
Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 11:28 AM on 09.15.10
->> So ... if Sainz were wearing a burka or or a nun's habit ... she would not have been insulted by players in the locker room? Last I looked, jeans and a button down collared shirt are not your typical "stripper" wardrobe ... in fact I find it quite likely that there were at least more than a few male reporters wearing similar attire ... though they may not have turned as many heads ....

Just because a reporter happens to be an attractive female is not an excuse to tolerate vulgar or unacceptable behavior ... even though vulgar behavior may be commonplace in such an environment ... no one should be ridiculed because of their gender ... either on a Sportshooter forum or in a professional sports locker room ...

Are male reporters judged by their wardrobe? And ... last I checked ... gender was not a mitigating factor in a reporter's inability to ask sensible questions ... anyone who has been in a post game press conference or locker room can attest to that if they were really listening at all ....
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Armando Solares, Photographer
Englewood | FL | USA | Posted: 12:07 PM on 09.15.10
->> If she were reporting on Saudi/Iranian/UAE/ soccer teams - she most likely would not be allowed to ask anything. Let alone be allowed in to a men's locker room.

Well said, Mr. Miller.
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Michael Proebsting, Photographer
Barrington | IL | USA | Posted: 2:02 PM on 09.15.10
->> I don't know what the problem is, I shoot in a speedo and nobody hassles me.
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Mike Anzaldi, Photographer
Oak Park | IL | USA | Posted: 3:48 PM on 09.15.10
->> bah.
she looks like a goof. the self-proclaimed "hottest reporter in mexico" can't be taken all that seriously when she turns up in skin-tight jeans or mini-dresses and heels. that attire diminishes the legitimacy of the job, unless we're all ready to admit that sports reporters are the new entertainment reporters. that is to say...we don't really care what jet's QB mark sanchez has to say. we just want to watch mark sanchez and a pretty girl have an inane conversation. you won't see the first lady turning up to an event in skinny jeans. you won't see the female ceo of a public fortune 500 company in a low-cut mini dress and prada sunglasses. why? unprofessional and inappropriate.

she stands out like a sore thumb. anyone who says attire is irrelevant must be kidding. that doesn't make sense.

further, it's not the white house press room. it's a football locker room. how is it surprising that over-grown, over-paid teenagers misbehave in the company of a sexy lady? it's like trying to train a 12 year old not to laugh at a fart. impossible.
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Jeanine Leech, Photographer
South Park | PA | United States | Posted: 4:42 PM on 09.15.10
->> Ann Liguori take on the subject..... As a fellow female in a male dominate profession, I think her comments are on the mark.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ann-liguori/fashion-faux-pas-for-fema_b_71632...
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
Boise | ID | US | Posted: 7:25 PM on 09.15.10
->> Wait wait wait... So let me understand this: She dresses for sex appeal, in a NFL locker room. Then something gets said to her and people are upset.

I'm not saying it's all her fault, but let's be honest: That's just asking for it. She dresses to get a reaction. She got one. Congratulations.
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Anantachai Brown, Photographer
Jacksonville | FL | | Posted: 8:01 PM on 09.15.10
->> So Mr. Miller, if I get an opportunity to go into a woman's locker to do interviews, it would be okay to wear a see through stretch tight shirt, tight white dungarees and stuff it with a banana, with white 3in platforms. That would be okay?
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 8:22 PM on 09.15.10
->> I spend a great majority of my shooting time around scantily clad people with amazing bodies. And if you are on my crew, staff; if you make a comment that is off the mark in any way, you are going to get rather abrupt treatment from me.

I don't care if she is "asking for it", using it for the attention, the marketing or media attention; stupid childish school boy comments are just that. And if these overpaid prima donnas can't figure that out, well let them go get a real job.

I like the way she dresses, I think she looks great, and I much prefer her to the beer bellied over stuffed cigar chomping loud buffoons who usually do the reporting.

And from what I saw, it was jeans and a white shirt! Not exactly over the top...
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 8:26 PM on 09.15.10
->> Mike,

12 year, hell I still do and I am 34!
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Butch Miller, Photographer
Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 8:52 PM on 09.15.10
->> Geeze ... you guys make it sound as though she walked into the locker room wearing nothing but a smile and stilettos ....

Because of her wardrobe she was "asking for it"?

Are you serious? Is this really 2010 or 1910?

Do any of you have sisters, wives, daughters? .... Do you judge them solely based upon their wardrobe? .... if they were assaulted verbally you'd tell them it was their own fault and they asked for it? Really?

Then I suppose the models in the SI Swimsuit Edition deserve to be belittled verbally for doing so? Or how about the cheerleaders? ... they deserve the cat calls and derogatory comments screamed out by the fans? ... Yet many of you still post/publish/print the wonderful photos of this girls ... guess you wouldn't be at all interested in taking their picture if they were dressed more conservatively ....

I'd wager to say that the young lady in question would have drawn as much attention in a loose fitting turtle neck sweater and dress slacks ..... attractive people draw attention .... wardrobe notwithstanding.

I agree that her choice of wardrobe may not fit the status quo for the industry ... but that is a matter for her employer to mandate ... not us. Not the players for the NY Jets.

Hey ... if anyone needs a banana stuffed in their trousers to complete their ensemble ... go for it ....
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Anantachai Brown, Photographer
Jacksonville | FL | | Posted: 9:12 PM on 09.15.10
->> Its no different than wearing a push up bra, extremely tight jeans, and a tight t-shirt with 3in heels.

She is a beautiful woman, and if I was single, I'd "hit it". But that is no reason to wear clothes that the cheerleaders would wear or going to a club on a sideline/locker rooms.

I would be willing to bet, most people here agree that she doesn't deserve the catcalls. But isn't that the reason why most women wear sexy clothes so that she can get noticed? i used to watch the Latin TV channels to look at the women!

I have a wife, and a 16y/o daughter in high school, 2 younger sisters, and do photograph high school seniors. I am very aware of what clothing styles are out.

You are right, this isn't 1910, it is 2010. Young men and women are VERY much different than when you grew up.
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Butch Miller, Photographer
Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 10:19 PM on 09.15.10
->> So I'm too ancient to "get it"? That's laughable ... Just because my youngest daughter turned 16 twelve years ago doesn't mean I've been living in a cave since then ...

Yes, men and women are VERY much different these days ... it seems the men of today continue to justify their bad behavior by any means necessary (not to mention their brethren running to their assistance) rather than take responsibility for their actions. It's so much easier to blame the victim ... that the sight of a little cleavage in a locker room is grounds for anything goes ... or that a multi-million dollar contract can't buy good taste, common sense or the wisdom to know when to keep their thoughts to themselves ....
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 10:19 PM on 09.15.10
->> Butch, with all due respect you are way off base. I am not defending these steroid man-child athletes. In all honesty that has nothing to do with this. It has EVERYTHING to do with professionalism. That's it. Plain and simple. I don't care if she is from Mexico, Bosnia, Madagascar...whatever...if you dress like a PROFESSIONAL, you (for the most part) will be treated as a PROFESSIONAL. If not, then yeah, I can see a firestorm of indignant protests. Her and EK dress the way they do for one reason and ONE reason only. To titillate. Plain and simple. It's not rocket science. Ever covered a game where little miss kennedy is? four security guards and skin tight leotards which (trust me) leave NOTHING to the imagination. Again, I know LOTS of professional women journalists, they would never even consider strutting around in their next-to-nothings in front of 80,000 people then wander into a testosterone filled locker room. Of course, I said it earlier and I will say it again....these women are not in any sense of the word journalists...they are television eye candy. It's very sad this has become an attack against "boorish" behavior by football players. What people should really look at is the fact these women aren't in any way journalists. okay I am so done with this.
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