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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
No time to ReJoyce
Mike Nelson, Photographer
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Derek Montgomery, Photographer
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Duluth | MN | USA | Posted: 12:21 AM on 06.03.10 |
| ->> Those calls happen... it just happened in a very big moment with a lot on the line. I feel bad for Galarrage, but he still pitched a great game. This will probably feed into the argument for those wanting more instant replay in MLB. |
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Andrew Link, Photographer
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West Bend | WI | USA | Posted: 12:22 AM on 06.03.10 |
| ->> He was clearly safe. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 12:44 AM on 06.03.10 |
| ->> I'm not a baseball official, but the only thing I see that could remotely be causing the call is the pitcher covering first base caught the ball in the tip of his glove, and did not have control of the ball until it fell into the center of his glove. This may or may not be what the ump was seeing, but if there are any baseball officials out there who can clarify this it would be very informative. Perhaps even Brad may know... or Paul Alese? Where are the baseball shooters... Things in officiating sometimes don't meet the eye and guys have to make calls that, on the surface, don't make sense. The intricacies of the rules sometimes come into play. Sure looked like a catch to me, but based on how the Detroit coach reacted upon conferring with the ump, it appeared the explanation was very clear. BTW, announcers are the last one's you should listen to in calling a call "bad". They know less than you would believe. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Brad Mangin, Photographer
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Pleasanton | CA | USA | Posted: 1:04 AM on 06.03.10 |
->> Phil,
There was nothing intricate here. There is nothing to clarify. He blew the call. There were no intricate rules here that needed to be interpreted. It was a footrace to the bag and he made the wrong call. He admitted it. Umpires use sound quite often to help them make calls like this as it is sometimes easy to hear two distinct sounds "bam bam" as the ball hits the glove and the foot of the runner hits the bag. This play did not lend itself to a loud "bam bam."
Also- not all announcers are bad- and the announcers on the Tiger's broadcast were right- Joyce did blow the call- no reason to rip on the announcers. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 3:13 AM on 06.03.10 |
->> Just as I thought, Brad, but I do have a tendency to give the benefit of the doubt to a ref. I did not hear that he admitted blowing the call. That happens, but it's always good to examine the situation thoroughly before castigating the guy. Guys who become ML umpires have proven themselves over a long period of time, and although they aren't perfect, they are considered to be the best, else they wouldn't be in the majors.
Well, he sure blew it. I definitely would not want to be in the official's locker room after the game. Behind closed doors he's being ripped far more by other officials and supervisors right now than by the public or the league, believe it or not.
Wow, the tension in the assignor's office when Joyce shows up for that conversation will be thick as molasses. I would not want to be him these next few days. |
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
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Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 9:15 AM on 06.03.10 |
| ->> Having ref'ed youth sports, I too tend to be sympathetic to officials... but, oh man was that an "instant classic". However, I have to give Joyce a lot of credit for owning up to the error and personally apologizing instead of trying to "justify" the call with some clearly false rationalization. Being a fan of the NHL & Red Wings, I've seen more than my share of those situations! |
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Brad Barr, Photographer
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Port St. Lucie | FL | USA | Posted: 9:31 AM on 06.03.10 |
->> This is exactly why there should be instant replay....not for balls and strikes...but for human error stuff like this. Or like was it a home run or a foul ball. In the 21st century, we have the technology to make this work. This kid deserves to be included with the other 20 perfect games that have taken place in bb history. Yes...only 20. Its that big a deal. Someone needs to set the record straight.
As both a lifelong player and umpire, nobody wants anything more than to get it right...on either side, or umpire. We have that capability and choose not to use it. Stupid. Put limits on the number of challenges if you must to keep up the pace of the game, but lets get it right. |
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David A. Cantor, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 10:38 AM on 06.03.10 |
->> "James A. Joyce III (born October 3, 1955, in Toledo, Ohio) is an umpire in Major League Baseball...." - wikipedia
Nice way to treat a former Mud Hen! |
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David Manning, Photographer
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Athens | GA | | Posted: 10:39 AM on 06.03.10 |
->> Even though this took away a perfect game, I'm still against using instant replay in baseball.
The human factor is what makes this game great and differs it from the cut and dry, everything gets reviewed world of the NFL. |
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Daniel Putz, Photographer
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Owings Mills | MD | USA | Posted: 11:02 AM on 06.03.10 |
->> I dunno about you, but I've seen plenty of NFL games that hadn't used Replay at all...
Brad's right...it can be made better. Do replays like the NHL, and it would take 10 seconds to overturn calls like that... |
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Bryan Hulse, Photographer
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Nashville | Tn | USA | Posted: 11:27 AM on 06.03.10 |
->> The Human factor?
Maybe they should have ‘The Human factor’ in aircraft?
Rockets?
Laser Eye surgery?
Maybe we should go back to manual typewriters instead of computers?
Ride a bike instead of drive?
How about smoke signals instead of cell phones?
OK, I am being a weisen-heimer here. I guess you know my vote on instant replay! :) |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 12:18 PM on 06.03.10 |
->> Bryan - I, too, am a proponent of instant replay in MLB. But as a side note, to address your points, things like airplane crashes, the Challenger disaster, malpractice in laser eye surgery, misspellings while typing on computers and car accidents can almost always be chalked up to human error.
I don't see instant reply necessarily as "eliminating the human factor" from baseball, rather I see it as reducing the margin of human error. |
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David Richard, Photographer
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Cleveland | OH | USA | Posted: 1:08 PM on 06.03.10 |
| ->> It sure looked like umpire Jim Joyce was crying when he walked onto the field today (Thurs). Galarraga brought out the lineup card for the Tigers. Joyce patted him on the shoulder. I'm probably one of the few that feel bad for Joyce. He's been one of my favorite umps for years with his loud strike calls. |
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Mike Carlson, Photographer
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Bayonet Point | FL | USA | Posted: 1:25 PM on 06.03.10 |
| ->> For the instant replay debate, it is interesting to contrast what happened regarding the Detroit/Joyce call with what WORKED in Philly during the hockey game last night. Two different calls were correctly made using instant replay that had a minimal impact on the pace of the game but a significant impact on the CORRECT outcome in each case (and in the game as a whole). |
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
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Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 1:29 PM on 06.03.10 |
->> David,
I feel sorry for the guy too... I'm sure there was no malice with regard to the call. He just had it on autopilot and was doing his job as usual. It isn't rare for an umpire to blow a call at a base, it was only the situation that made it bad for Joyce. The ironic thing is if he'd make that same call in the 3rd inning of that same game, no one (outside of Jim Leyland) would have cared much. |
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David Manning, Photographer
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Athens | GA | | Posted: 2:06 PM on 06.03.10 |
->> I don't like what instant replay has done to the NFL & SEC Football - turned it into a hair-splitting, rule based environment that seems to take all the fun out out of the sport.
I dont want to see that happen to baseball. |
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Mike Nelson, Photographer
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Puyallup | WA | | Posted: 6:23 PM on 06.03.10 |
->> Nobody feels worse than Jim Joyce. As it has been pointed out by a few, Joyce is at this level for a reason. Even so, he is human. When questioned I believe Joyce has responded like a champ!
“I’ll take it. I’ll take it. I’ll take whatever you can give me. I’ll handle it like a man. And I’ll do the best I can.” -Jim Joyce
The only real debate left is can the call be overturned, and should it?
Will Bud Selig make that call? |
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Todd Shurtleff, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 8:27 PM on 06.03.10 |
| ->> It shows how antiquated the rules are if, with all the evidence, MLB cannot reverse the mistaken call and give the guy his perfect game. |
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Steve King, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Ann Arbor | MI | USA | Posted: 8:29 PM on 06.03.10 |
->> There were several of us there last night shooting that game, and pretty much after the 4th inning no one said a thing about the game, we just did our jobs. That's what Galarraga did, that's what everyone including Jim Joyce did too. It was SO LOUD that Armando couldn't hear his foot or the runners foot hit the bag, period. Looking up he saw the call and assumed the play was safe and reacted like I would hope I could (but probably wouldn't) by smiling and accepting the call, then getting the 28th out, and walking off happy. This was the first complete game victory of his career.
After the game we heard the raw audio of the Joyce interview, while uploading my gallery, and you could tell that this man wasn't going to sleep last night. He was torn up, he was unflinchingly apologetic, took complete responsibility, and did go to see Armando to apologize in person. You don't do that unless you have a lot of integrity and know what needs to be done. Armando smiled and accepted his apology and backed him up. THIS is what sports should be about.
BTW, If you didn't see the clip of today's lineup exchange you missed the final chapter of the story. Bud Selig's decision wasn't the final chapter, Armando Galarraga exchanging the line up card with HOME PLATE umpire Jim Joyce was it. Clearly a classy move, total respect shared between the two individuals and the Tigers club with him too. What's done is done, and the Tigers won today too.
Play Ball!! |
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Garrett Cortese, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Winter Park | FL | USA | Posted: 10:30 PM on 06.03.10 |
->> SI.com columnist Jeff Pearlman wrote a great piece about what this blown call/(im)perfect game really means in the grand scheme of things. I think he hit the nail on the head... and he wrote this BEFORE the line up card exchange between Galarraga and Joyce at today's Tigers/Indians game.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/06/03/pearlman.galarraga.baseball/index.htm... |
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Brad Mangin, Photographer
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Pleasanton | CA | USA | Posted: 12:27 AM on 06.04.10 |
| ->> Thanks for the link Garrett. Jeff can write- and he loves photographers (especially V.J. Lovero), which is a good combination. |
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Steve King, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Ann Arbor | MI | USA | Posted: 4:30 PM on 06.04.10 |
| ->> Garrett, thanks for the link, otherwise I would have missed that column. Jeff has a great point and hits the nail on the head without bias. And he's right, having seen Armando pitch since his rookie year in 2008 I can say he's very kind and humble. Plus, you just gotta love his smile. So for Armando to forgive Jim Joyce, and Joyce to be man enough to admit his mistake really does make this a historic game, and one that we can all learn from. Let's move on and... Play ball. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 11:00 PM on 06.04.10 |
| ->> 4 words: Great column Class Act. |
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
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wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 7:16 PM on 06.06.10 |
| ->> Just a thought.... If the call would have gone the other way (runner out) and the replay showed that he was clearly safe; should a perfect game be retroactively declared null? |
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Jody Gomez, Photographer
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Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 2:21 AM on 06.08.10 |
->> Please don't flame me for this, but in many ways, this was a perfect game. Joyce's call set up a scenario in which we were able to witness the true meaning of good sportsmanship. It proved that character and integrity still exist in today's world, and it set an example for all of us to emulate. It showed that good, or even great, things can come from colossal mistakes.
There was a great post on the 18th comment page that perfectly sums up what I've trying to say, "Sometimes, a box score isn't big enough to represent perfection."
Well said. |
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Steve King, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Ann Arbor | MI | USA | Posted: 11:00 PM on 06.08.10 |
| ->> Great point Jody, great point. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 7:30 AM on 06.09.10 |
->> It's also interesting to think about how much great discussion this event has generated...and the great moments created because of it. With instant replay it would have been a great personal achievement for one player. Without it, we've seen some amazing humanity from multiple people.
Most great art is significant not because of perfection, but for the "flaws" that make it unique. |
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