Story   Photographer   Editor   Student/Intern   Assistant   Job/Item

SportsShooter.com: The Online Resource for Sports Photography

Contents:
 Front Page
 Member Index
 Latest Headlines
 Special Features
 'Fun Pix'
 Message Board
 Educate Yourself
 Equipment Profiles
 Bookshelf
 my.SportsShooter
 Classified Ads
 Workshop
Contests:
 Monthly Clip Contest
 Annual Contest
 Rules/Info
Newsletter:
 Current Issue
 Back Issues
Members:
 Members Area
 "The Guide"
 Join
About Us:
 About SportsShooter
 Contact Us
 Terms & Conditions


Sign in:
Members log in here with your user name and password to access the your admin page and other special features.

Name:



Password:







||
SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Free internship with Nachtwey
Mitchell Brown, Photographer
Grimsby | Ont | Canada | Posted: 3:12 PM on 12.12.09
->> wow read the comments...whats your thoughts
http://jamieslist.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/internship-for-james-nachtwey-ny...
 This post is:  Informative (2) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 6:28 PM on 12.12.09
->> I called and E-mailed JN about this some time ago. I did get an acknowledgment from his studio manager, but I never got a comment about the unpaid nature of the internship.

--mark
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Michael Fischer, Photographer
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 9:23 AM on 12.13.09
->> After reading many of the posts,this hit a raw nerve. Lots of 4 letter words over there aimed at Mr. Nachtway.

*IF*, as one poster suggests, you don't even get a recommendation out of the experience, then they should be ashamed.

As another poster suggested, the only ones who can afford to work for free are the financially well off.

Working for free has always been a part of earning one's stripes in many industries.Usually for those that have desire but no skill set.

PROMOTING the offer to work for free is the first indication that this offer isn't a valuable opportunity.. This does look more like explotation. Wanting a fairly high set of skills is another indication that this isn't entry level.

The fact that Nachtway would not respond to Mark, who certainly has visibility in the industry, should serve as a giant, red warning flag to be careful. IT's the third strike in my book.

I will also say I don't think Mr. Nachtway cares one bit what the rest of us think.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Jeff Jones, Photo Editor
Gallup | NM | USA | Posted: 11:38 AM on 12.13.09
->> Hmmmm - even more interesting is that it is his "studio" looking for the intern. I am not saying this is the case, but what *IF* the internship does not even involve working with JN, but rather doing work in his studio while he is gone on assignment and you take direction from his studio business person?

For somebody who has made such a name for himself I would expect to see something a bit more helpful to the industry (Eddie Adams Barnstorm, perhaps?)

Just thinking out loud.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Michael Ip, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:41 AM on 12.13.09
->> Michael,

I agree with you. Trying to break into the industry by doing some "volunteer" work I think is alright. However, wanting someone experienced is wrong. Yes, one might argue that it might be good experience and networking, but to reiterate what you wrote, if you aren't getting connections/recommendations out of it all you are promised is experience. However, they are looking for someone with all the skills needed already - so how much will you really be learning?

I must wonder if it is much of a learning experience anyways. The way the ad words it "Please, qualified applicants only! We are a small operation with an enormous workflow and no time can be wasted." makes it sound like you aren't gaining any mentorship - just plain working.

Bad deal all around if you asked me.

Working for free only cheapens the craft and makes our skills as photojournalists worth less if people are willing to do it for free. Bad juju.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Bryan Hulse, Photographer
Nashville | Tn | USA | Posted: 12:54 PM on 12.13.09
->> Studios have been offering internships for a long long time. As well as news agencies, networks, etc.

As a studio owner I have been contacted on numerous occasions by young college students asking to do a summer internship. They get college credit for the internship, and one of the requirements from their school is that the intern NOT get paid.

I'll bet this job posting is for a similar job, although it does make it sound like they are basically asking for 'free' work.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Michael Ip, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 1:01 PM on 12.13.09
->> Bryan,

The thing is, you're clear about who you're looking for as an intern for your studio. I'm sure you mentor your student as well as ensure he/she learns how to do studio work. You also mention the student gaining college credit, this is all great. No where in the Nachtwey ad does it state college credit - from some of the comments, it sounds like they're not interested in that at all.

Jeff,

After reading your post it also got me thinking as well. It sure does sound like working in a studio absent of Nachtwey. I look at the contact email and it's a gmail address not VII. This sounds a little fishy to me. I wonder if Nachtwey himself has even visibility on this.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Nuno Garuti, Photographer
Lisbon | pt | Portugal | Posted: 1:20 PM on 12.13.09
->> This can't be true, this must be some sort of sick joke or someone else trying to badmouth JN's name. Just doesn't make sense.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Ronni Moore, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
Indianapolis | IN | United States | Posted: 6:25 PM on 12.13.09
->> Nah, it's true. When Nachtwey came to Indiana University to do a couple of lectures in '07 he happened to mention a few times that he was offering an unpaid internship. I am not ashamed to admit that I considered trying for it. And if it weren't for the impracticality of my living in NY without anything coming in, I might have.

Though I realize working for free is bad practice and not offering money when you can and probably should is worse. So you know where I'm coming from, as a student, I had an old-school pj prof who spent [utterly too much] time telling his students that most of us weren't going to make it as photojournalists and he stressed the importance of "paying dues". I guess I thought it might be a way to do so.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

David Harpe, Photographer
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 8:10 PM on 12.13.09
->> In many creative industries (TV, graphics, advertising, interior design, architecture), unpaid internships are becoming the norm. Not saying it's right, but it is a trend.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Sandy Huffaker, Photographer
San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 8:26 PM on 12.13.09
->> I'm sorry I have to chime-in. Some of the younger photogs who posted on his blog that are up in arms about this need to get over themselves. It's way too early to have an ego this big.
There is such a thing as busting your ass when you're just starting out for experience and a fantastic resume opportunity. Sure there is monetary worth to your labor but to get the opportunity to work with the best in the biz is an invaluable experience that I think will help your chances to break into this business down the road. Just think of all the picture editors, art dealers, photo critics, other big names photographers from VII you'll be getting to meet and know on a first name basis. Also, seeing how to run a successful studio is an invaluable experience. If I was still in college, I would have jumped all over this. I am also sure the intern could get college credit for this. It's a win win situation if you ask me.
 This post is:  Informative (1) | Funny (1) | Huh? (4) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Mike Brice, Photographer
Ogden | UT | USA | Posted: 8:53 PM on 12.13.09
->> I am just surprised that you need Photoshop experience.

I thought all his images came out of the camera looking perfect.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (11) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Octavian Cantilli, Photographer, Assistant
Grand Rapids | MI | United States | Posted: 11:15 PM on 12.13.09
->> The topic of unpaid internships can be argued back and forth forever...
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=2758
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=29220

The way I see it is it all depends on the chemistry between the intern and the staff. The experience can be complete exploitation or it can be one where the intern should pay the staff. It can't hurt to apply for any internship that interests you, but if the staff shows interest, you should ask all the questions that run through your head. Also, ask for the names and phone numbers of all the interns that have worked at the studio over the past two years. This way you'll know as much as possible about what you're getting yourself into...
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 11:36 PM on 12.13.09
->> Sandy, with all due respect, I am a little confused how you make the quantum leap that an unpaid lab tech is going to meet "the picture editors, art dealers, photo critics, other big names photographers from VII". surely you are kidding, right? this will be a valuable experience? I think not. sure, some of the comments on the website are a little out of control but our industry is in freefall right now and quite frankly, it is reprehensible that someone of Nachtway's stature would condone a practice like this. If you look at the qualifications needed for this "internship" it seems you already would have all the skills needed to do a PAID job elsewhere. Sorry, but to me this just looks like someone trying to get free labor. Plain and simple.
 This post is:  Informative (6) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Sandy Huffaker, Photographer
San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 11:56 PM on 12.13.09
->> Chuck,
I dunno, in my worthless opinion it's kind of a 1 step back Two steps forward ideology. I DO think you'd be able to make some worthwhile connections, have a great lead on a resume and possibly get some kind of college credits. I'm really more thinking this would be a good experience for a college student. I had a buddy intern with Richard Avedon in college and he went on to become quite successful through some of the contacts and prestige he got while working there.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Nuno Garuti, Photographer
Lisbon | pt | Portugal | Posted: 6:44 AM on 12.14.09
->> What doesn't add up is that this blog where the post is at doesn't seem to be from Nachtwey, that blog belongs to someone called Jamie Rose, and on the internship post they give a gmail to send your CV? Don't VII or JN's studio have their own mail server?

I know none of this makes the post true or false but it just seems sketchy.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 7:27 PM on 12.14.09
->> Nuno, It's true. As I mentioned, I had direct contact with his studio about this.

--Mark
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 7:28 PM on 12.14.09
->> Sandy, That's exactly why JN shouldn't be taking advantage of them.

--Mark
 This post is:  Informative (1) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Nuno Garuti, Photographer
Lisbon | pt | Portugal | Posted: 4:38 AM on 12.15.09
->> I was hoping this ad was a hoax but I guess this ad really is true, I even got an email about this.

I will no longer doubt the ad I will however say that this is plain wrong, I'm against unpaid internships, work should always be paid, but in this case they even demand all that experience which just makes it a lot worse.

The ad coming from where it does just surprised me more that's all.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Steve Ueckert, Photographer
Houston | TX | | Posted: 8:14 AM on 12.15.09
->> What bothers me is that they expect experience but offer no monetary compensation. If this was an offer for an inexperienced individual, someone in high school or perhaps first year college, that would be different.

This is a solicitation for an intern, not an assistant. I doubt that an intern would have access to very many contacts in the NYC photo business. And as previously mentioned, this intern might not even have any contact, or only minimal time, with Nachtwey.

I guess everyone is looking for something for nothing these days.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

David A. Cantor, Photographer, Photo Editor
Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 9:57 AM on 12.15.09
->> When I apprenticed at a commercial studio 30+ years ago, I had nominal college photo experience but was more green then Kermit the Frog when it came to studio skills and more specifically the equipment. In return for my work, I was taught cameras, film, lighting, props, client negotiations and a whole host of commercial skills. After being given the keys to the studio and the combination to the camera safe, I was allowed to produce my own work during off hours, being financially responsible only for film, chemistry and supplies. What a boon for a newbie, having access to a complete studio with only months in the business and being already able to monetize my apprentice experience with little capital expense. (To help make this fly and keep a roof over my head, I worked nights in a color lab as a duplication technician.) From my internship I learned great studio chops from a talented and generous photographer with the attendant recommendations, was able to utilize a fully equipped studio/darkroom to substantially upgrade my portfolio and book some of my earliest paying gigs, and develop a successful freelance assisting business. Absent career developing opportunities like the aforementioned, unpaid photo internships already expecting extensive software and other knowledge are dubious experiences at best and require extremely diligent application to benefit career growth, especially since promised networking opportunities have little efficacy in shrinking markets like the present commercial and editorial photography environs.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Add your comments...
If you'd like to add your comments to this thread, use this form. You need to be an active (paying) member of SportsShooter.com in order to post messages to the system.

NOTE: If you would like to report a problem you've found within the SportsShooter.com website, please let us know via the 'Contact Us' form, which alerts us immediately. It is not guaranteed that a member of the staff will see your message board post.
Thread Title: Free internship with Nachtwey
Thread Started By: Mitchell Brown
Message:
Member Login:
Password:




Return to -->
Message Board Main Index
Want to know which shooter is majoring in Chemistry? Click here to find out! ::..