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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Patriots security knocks down photog after Colts game, shameful act
Eric Seals, Photographer
Detroit | MI | United States | Posted: 3:31 PM on 11.16.09
->> I couldn't believe my eyes watching the end of the Pats vs Colts game yesterday.
Forget the bad call Belichick made, I'm talking about what happened afterwards.

As Belichick was running off the field with his security guard, the bald guy acts like a "bull in a china shop" and pushes around 3 photographers that I could see as NBC tracked him leaving. A NBC camera man in a brown vest gets his camera pushed down to the ground causing him to fall. Not sure if he or his gear was injured and wonder if this will be swept under the rug or the some type of apology or fine on the guy (doubtful)

I shot it with my Flip, see for yourself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KNz2YzAhUM

Chatting on facebook with other photographers right after it happened we all know this isn't the first time this has happened and won't be the last unfortunately :-(

Two Indianapolis Star photographers where right there when two incidences happened.
Sam Riche has a sequence of it here;
http://photos.indystar.com/galleries/slides/7944?page=2
The last picture, #4, the NBC guy now on the ground has the WTF look on his face.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091116/SPORTS03/91116027/
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Bob Nichols, Photographer
Tipton | IN | USA | Posted: 3:42 PM on 11.16.09
->> I was just saw this and was getting ready to post about it.

Apparently he was trained by Steve Williams.

Unreal.



Can you say battery?
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Octavian Cantilli, Photographer, Assistant
Grand Rapids | MI | United States | Posted: 3:52 PM on 11.16.09
->> In the youtube video it looks like he was about to do it to another guy right when to video cut out...
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 3:57 PM on 11.16.09
->> If I'm not mistaken, the same meat head got his hands all over a still photog earlier in the season as well. The simple solution if you're shooting post game of Belichick is to shoot from the other side of Bill. If the guy makes a move for you, keep Bill between you two and watch as the hilarity ensues on national TV.
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 4:00 PM on 11.16.09
->> I actually like that camera man too. I can't remember his name, but I've chatted with him on numerous occasions since we tend to cover the same games a lot. He's fairly quiet, but he's very easy to work with/alongside unlike some of the others.
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Wes Hope, Photographer
Maryville | TN | USA | Posted: 4:02 PM on 11.16.09
->> A) The muscle shouldn't have touched the camera (or the operator).

B) If you pay attention to the video, it looks like the cable puller behind the camera operator ran out of cable and the camera operator got pulled down when he ran out of cable.

In other words, it doesn't look like it was all Michael Chiklis' fault. Looks like the camera guy got pulled down by a short leash.
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Wes Hope, Photographer
Maryville | TN | USA | Posted: 4:05 PM on 11.16.09
->> Watch from :21-:26 on Eric's video and you can see what I'm talking about. The cable snaps tight and camera operator goes down. Physics helped along by the shove and grab by the meathead in question.
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Daniel Putz, Photographer
Jefferson | MD | USA | Posted: 4:13 PM on 11.16.09
->> Looks like he tripped over the cord. You can see his assistant reacting to the cord as well. NBD.
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
Washington | DC | US | Posted: 4:32 PM on 11.16.09
->> Wes Hope is right...I think you gotta blame the cord on this one...he got yanked by the cable not by security.
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Eric Seals, Photographer
Detroit | MI | United States | Posted: 4:43 PM on 11.16.09
->> If you look at Sam's pictures clearly "Michael Chiklis" has his hands all over that camera, look at frame 1 and 2.

http://photos.indystar.com/galleries/slides/7944?page=2

I'm not sure if Sam is a member of SportShooter but he was 5 or 6 feet away when it all went down (no pun intended)

and the other photographer at the end before the cut was also a Indy Star photographer Matt Detrich

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2031885&id=1599166719&ref=mf
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Eric Seals, Photographer
Detroit | MI | United States | Posted: 4:51 PM on 11.16.09
->> yep, just talked with Sam (who was 5 feet away when it happened) and he said the cord had nothing to do with it, the guy pushed and turned the guy down to the floor.

I'm sure nothing will happen to "Michael Chiklis" or "Daddy Warbucks"
but it would be nice for some swift justice ;-)
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Jim Owens, Photographer
Cincinnati | OH | usa | Posted: 5:03 PM on 11.16.09
->> I came to the same conclusion watching the video that Wes and Delane did. The camera man got tripped up by the cable and I believe the suddeness of the movement caused the security guy to react physically very quickly. His hands were on the camera for sure as evidenced by the photo sequence but I believe the security guard is trying to deflect it before it struck Belichick.
This would be an interesting video in a law class.
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Stew Milne, Photographer
Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 5:13 PM on 11.16.09
->> Those of us that cover the Patriots on a regular basis, have to deal with this security all the time.
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Eric Seals, Photographer
Detroit | MI | United States | Posted: 5:16 PM on 11.16.09
->> If I have the choice between someone who was there (5 feet away like I said) and saw the whole thing develop/happen versus someone who is judging from the little Flip video I shot and posted on youtube, sorry I think I'm going with the eyewitness.

But maybe that's just me.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 5:16 PM on 11.16.09
->> Here's one solution NO ONE ALLOWED ON THE FIELD that isn't a member of either team or employed by the league. And I don't just mean the NFL, throw in MLB NBA, and all the other leagues to boot. Except NHL, let everyone on the ice to chase players after the game. Might give me a reason to watch a game to the end.
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Eric Seals, Photographer
Detroit | MI | United States | Posted: 5:19 PM on 11.16.09
->> Stew, I feel for ya.

Being here in Detroit with the Lions we'd sign that security guy up in a hurry, he can obviously block! LOL!!

So it's par for the course huh? Has he or other security people gotten in trouble for it or is it just the "they are just photographers in the way" line they pull??
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Eric Seals, Photographer
Detroit | MI | United States | Posted: 5:21 PM on 11.16.09
->> Hey, just heard about the thread and I have to say that the NBC photog was totally taken down by the security guard, it wasn't his cord.
Yes the cord tightens, but the security dude had his hands all over the NBC photog and purposely threw him to the ground. Also when the photog hit the ground, he shouted out to the guard, saying something like "thanks a lot jerk!"....so when you have the photog responding to the security guy like that you know more about what happened.

Lastly, just food for thought. This was an NBC camera man, who obviously knows his stuff (NBC doesn't hire folks for that job if they aren't top notch)...so its not like he was some crazy newbie out there that security should be more concerned with, he's a network guy! And, network guys don't usually run out of cord on something like that...he was thrown down, and believe me, he knew it.

Sam Riche
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 5:26 PM on 11.16.09
->> HUH??? REALLY??? Someone here doesn't understand keep off the field? Well that says it all, now doesn't it....
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
Washington | DC | US | Posted: 5:48 PM on 11.16.09
->> Hey Eric (Seals)...we get it man. We know how you feel. We weren't there. Geeez man. Is it really that serious?
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Eric Seals, Photographer
Detroit | MI | United States | Posted: 6:01 PM on 11.16.09
->> Nope, much more serious things going on Delane like trying to get my son to eat his carrots for dinner ;-)

Just sharing a bit of video and still picture gallery of what I thought other sports photographers would find interesting seeing how the game didn't get over till around midnight.
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David Harpe, Photographer
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 6:23 PM on 11.16.09
->> It was both really. The cable definitely went taught, causing the camera guy to stumble. The security dude "assisted" the inevitable fall to the ground. But even if the cable hadn't been a factor, it's pretty likely the security guard would have made contact with the video guy...he was already positioning for him when the stumble happened.

You can bet if the security guy was at fault, he won't do it again. It's one thing to push around a still photographer, it's another thing to take out a camera guy working for a network paying the NFL millions and millions of dollars.
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 6:59 PM on 11.16.09
->> I don't think I'd blame the security guy. He's doing what he's be hired to do. If the RCA dome's management or the Colts had a problem with what he was doing it would stop.

Please, no nazi germany, we were only following orders comparisons please.
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Brandon McKenney, Photographer
Portland | ME | United States | Posted: 7:23 PM on 11.16.09
->> I think it's pushing it a little to call this a "shameful act". I've got to agree with David Harpe here and assume that it was a combination of both the cord and a push from the security guy. But like Jeff just said, the guy is doing his job. It's not like he's some rogue agent who came onto the field and started man-handling people for no reason.

I'm not saying there's not a problem with people getting a bit too physical with press and photographers at times, but this doesn't look as bad as some I've seen. I think that video posted recently on here of the police officer hassling the guy in the subway is a much greater problem we need to be concerned about because that involves our basic rights as American citizens.

Plus, that NBC video guy is just lucky it wasn't Brady's bodyguards...he might have a few bullets in him! Just kidding.

Now I'll go crawl back into my cave and continue crying about last night's horrible loss.
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Stew Milne, Photographer
Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 7:25 PM on 11.16.09
->> The security guys job it to protect someone, in this case Bill Belichick. His job is not to manhandle a photographer to the ground. The cameraman was not in Belichick's way, only the security guy's way. The security guy has no right to grab his equipment and pull him to the ground. The cameraman posed no real threat to Belichick.

I really don't understand what threat we professional media pose to the players or coaches. Do you think I'm going to get close enough to a player that I will run into him? We're not crazed fans ready to jump on them.

-sM
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Mark Peters, Photographer
Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 7:32 PM on 11.16.09
->> Jeff -

From his shirt he doesn't appear to be with the dome or the Colts - and he is not doing what he is hired to do unless he's being paid to commit battery. Not sure that the NFL credential states that you give up your right not to be manhandled by a private individual in the employment of an NFL franchise. Exactly where does his right to move any person from where they are lawfully standing come from?
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 8:01 PM on 11.16.09
->> It's AMAZING how you're only perceived as a security threat when you're shooting the loosing team walking off the field.

If the team that you're shooting wins, then you can touch the domed glass of your 14mm to the ear hole of the winning quarterback's helmet and nobody will have a problem with it.
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 8:08 PM on 11.16.09
->> Case and point:

http://www.sportsshooter.com/bblanco/caseandpoint/pages/1.html

It's a bit out of focus but you can see Scott Audette making an image from 3 inches from Roethlisberger's ear following last year's Super Bowl... funny thing... nobody said a word about it.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 8:41 PM on 11.16.09
->> Brian that photo ran as the March cover of "ENT Monthly". Great story with MRI's of Ben's inner ear as proof that Big Ben's Big inner ear helped him stay balanced in the post season.

Mr. Audette must have cashed in big on that one.


No disrespect to Scott.
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Brandon McKenney, Photographer
Portland | ME | United States | Posted: 8:48 PM on 11.16.09
->> Okay, so "doing his job" may be the wrong way to phrase it, but I don't think what that guy did is "shameful". To me, it looks like it was a combination of the cord and a push from him.

He obviously has no right to do what he did, lay a hand on either a person or their camera equipment, but I'm just saying it seems like far worse things have been done to photojournalists trying to get a shot. No?
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 9:27 PM on 11.16.09
->> Mark, I don't disagree with the point you're trying to make. Just saying that if who ever is paying this guy doesn't like what he's doing they would/will address it. Just like Steve Williams would cool down if Tiger told him too.

The hired goon isn't really the problem here. It's whoever is giving the orders, or permitting this by not addressing the problem.
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Mark Peters, Photographer
Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 9:57 PM on 11.16.09
->> Jeff,

Which is why if someone brings suit the person signing his paycheck will bear the lion's share of paying the settlement.
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David Eulitt, Photographer
Kansas City | MO | USA | Posted: 12:22 AM on 11.17.09
->> The issue I wonder about is with NBC, who pays millions and millions to broadcast games and one of THEIR guys gets handled like this? In the grand scheme of things, the NFL isn't losing sleep over one still photographer and security...but one of their golden-goose broadcast partners? As with all things.....$$$$ talks.
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Dave Prelosky, Photographer
Lower Burrell | Pa | US | Posted: 12:32 AM on 11.17.09
->> Two things I've been curious about since seeing this -
First, is there any reaction from then Pats or NBC?
Second, anyone consider forming a scrum at an away game that baldy would have to commit assault to get thru?
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Eric Seals, Photographer
Detroit | MI | United States | Posted: 9:03 AM on 11.17.09
->> well said David

as far as "shameful act" that I wrote in the headline Brandon, I would have typed "what a dumbass" but it wouldn't fit and I think some people flag posts with swear words anyway ;-)
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Bob Nichols, Photographer
Tipton | IN | USA | Posted: 9:31 AM on 11.17.09
->> NFL is "looking into" the situation.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/16/nfl-looking-into-incident-b.../

"NBC is "on board" with the tentative conclusion that it was all inadvertent."
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Aaron Rhoads, Photographer
mccomb | ms | | Posted: 10:01 AM on 11.17.09
->> When I saw it as it happened on TV I thought it look like the cameraman got tangled up with his cords and started to fall. The bald guy just helped him to the ground.
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 10:24 AM on 11.17.09
->> Looking at Eric's video you can see the camera man's cord become taught. It looks like he ran out of cord, got a little jerk, and may have stumbled into the security guard. But that's just what it looks like to me...

I'm actually more curious about what happened later to Matt Detrich. It's a good thing he's nimble on his feet - it looks like the security was ready to take him out at a full jog.
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 10:41 AM on 11.17.09
->> I find on a regular basis its our peers who act far more "shameful" than any security agents after the games.

I've never had any issues with an usher or security person putting their hands on me, but have had countless times where another photographer starts throwing elbows or trying to push right past me because they think their need to stick their 14mm in the coaches face trumps my need to stick my 14mm in the coaches face. If its not that, its someone who gets their monopod sticking through the camera strap of my other body, or the guy who is trying to hold his camera out over the top of the scrum but then gets in the way of everyone elses frame etc. There is zero courtesy or respect for one another in those deadline situations.

Lets face it, as much as those security guards, police deputies etc do make our job harder, they really are a necessary evil as far as I'm concerned because I think we can all image what would happen if they weren't there.

Does anyone really think the scrum of rabid photographers are all going to politely part as the coach tries to walk off the field ? Not a chance! We are all going to mob the poor guy. Its the nature of the beast.

If you want that shot, your going to have to fight every other photographer tooth and nail to get in their with your fisheye, then your going to have to see how long you can back peddle in the scrum before tripping over another photographer or getting tossed aside by an usher or police deputy.

Add in 10,000 students a minute rushing the field at a NCAA game if you'd like the up the challenge even further LOL
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John Germ, Photographer
Wadsworth | Oh | USA | Posted: 11:45 AM on 11.17.09
->> What I find interesting is how people have already concluded guilt/innocence based solely on this video. I looked at this and it is no where near conclusive. As evidenced by the fact their are differing interpretations of the events from viewers here in this forum. I think it's an interesting video and worth study/investigation. So I think Bob Nichols' post is the key - the investigation by the NFL and NBC.

The problem with posts attributing 'assualt' monikers to the security guard without investigation are you risk the 'boy who cried wolf' syndrome. If you jump the gun and are wrong, the next time there is an issue you risk it falling on deaf ears. "Oh, it's just the boy who cried wolf again". It's also representative of what turns a lot of people (me included) off about media today. They don't do a decent job of investigative reporting. They simply jump right to conclusions - conclusions which are often bias-driven (in this case driven by the bias of the victim being a photographer/videographer).

Just my opinon
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 1:36 PM on 11.17.09
->> Jeff,

It appears you've steered us into another direction - from talking about security being over protective of us shooting dejected players/coaches walking off the field to our behavior to each other in a post-game scrum.

So just as a follow up to my post above, let me make it clear that I was NOT faulting Audette for shooting that closely. Scott's a friend of mine and always conducts himself as the professional that he is... period. In fact, I too was just inches from Ben during the scrum I linked to above; we all were. (Scott's photos, as usual, kicked my butt that night though.)

It's the nature of the beast and as long as we have an obligation to our respective clients to get the story-telling shot then... well...

I've never known anyone that I work regularly with to "throw elbows", push, shove, trip etc... anybody during a scrum. Yes there is contact and yes people sometimes get knocked around but it has been my experience that those things are generally unintentional.

Look, I want to get "the" shot as badly as the next shooter but I'll never resort to hurting anyone to do it and I know the guys I work with regularly feel the same way. I do not believe that the, mostly unintentional, contact that goes on between us is "shameful" nor do I feel it gives any security guard the right to batter any of us. (And for the record I think the incident linked to above appears to be inconclusive at the moment).
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Chad Ryan, Photographer
Fort Wayne | IN | USA | Posted: 2:04 PM on 11.17.09
->> I was there, and I can give a couple of observations:

1. The cable puller was a newbie. He did a fine job, but he was a little bit in the way. The experienced NBC folks had to instruct him all night. Not his fault, he was just new to the game. An NBC Staffer asked the cable puller if he was alright after the melee, so I'm guessing he had a minor part in the scrum.

2. I saw the camera operator go flying, but I didn't see the exact cause as I was shooting the Brady/Manning handshake. Don't ask why, I guess it's just what we're supposed to do. What I do know is that operator is one of the nicest guys on the NBC staff. In fact, he's the only one I've ever worked around who actually tries to give the still shooters space, and he apologizes if he can't. I seriously doubt he was posing any kind of threat to Belichick or the security jerk.

Unfortunately, I doubt the desired response will come from this. We will likely lose more access from events like this whether it was a TV network employee or not. The Patriots' ball boys were even giving photographers a hard time because their long snapper wanted more room to practice his snaps - all game long - and he had plenty to start with.

We don't have a constitutional right to be there, but we should at least expect professionalism. The Patriots' staff showed it is incapable of that.
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 3:48 PM on 11.17.09
->> The news here is that Bellichick appears to have hired someone to shove photographers instead of just doing it himself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwDJ_7L8zi0

I'm sure everyone remembers this lovely moment.
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Jeff Barrie, Photographer
Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 2:17 AM on 11.18.09
->> Public Service Announcement...If you come to Indy to shoot a Colts game don't catch a cab and ask him to take you to the RCA Dome, it's gone, dismantled, destroyed, leveled, and hauled away. The Colts now play in Lucas Oil Stadium.

The IndyStar's coverage sure made it look like a deliberate knock down.
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Alan Stewart, Photographer
Corydon | IN | USA | Posted: 9:38 AM on 11.18.09
->> I heard they were going to rule on this situation in the replay booth, but Belichick was out of time outs.

GO COLTS!

(And FWIW, I think the wire had more to do with the fall than Mr. Security Guy)
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 12:17 PM on 11.18.09
->> Looked like a pretty good 'swim' move by a D lineman. After watching it several times, I'm impressed with how he made this look so effortless. Not condoning what he did by any means.
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Chip Litherland, Photographer
Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 12:28 PM on 11.18.09
->> Eric,

Sincerely, I was going to write this to you personally, man, but I figure someone else might take something from it.

Next time I'd be cautious and make sure to find a direct link to an NBC Sports site rather than taking it upon yourself to jack someone else's work with a Flip. I'm sure you'd be the first one to get upset over someone else taking some shaky video of one of your video pieces and posting it online.

Just saying...we get ripped off enough online, we shouldn't be doing it to each other.


Chip
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David Richard, Photographer
Cleveland | OH | USA | Posted: 1:42 PM on 11.22.09
->> ESPN.com says the NFL has "reprimanded" the two sides:

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=4679604
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Eric Seals, Photographer
Detroit | MI | United States | Posted: 4:54 PM on 11.22.09
->> Good call Chip, unlike Belichick's in that game ;-)
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 7:45 PM on 11.22.09
->> Dear Security Guy:

Please don't push around the TV guys, they're our cash cow.

If you feel the need to abuse photographers, please take your frustrations out on the still guys, they don't pay us a dime. Coach Belichick can explain the difference.

Signed,

NFL
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Ivan Pierre Aguirre, Student/Intern, Assistant
El Paso | TX | United States | Posted: 2:36 PM on 11.25.09
->> Q for NFL shooters. What is the difference between the brown and black vest video shooters wear? NBC pays A LOT of money to the NFL and for this to happen is wrong. Security could have just put up his arms to block instead of touching the shooter. To express both sides, it does appear that the cord played a small part in the fall. Chip, not sure your point is pertinent to Mr. Seals story. I don't think Mr. Seals made a dent in Dick Ebersol bank account by using the video. NBC would have ask Youtube to remove it by now if it was a violation?Point is moot. Btw amazing b/w photos of the Saints vs Bucs game!
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