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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Wow
Nick Morris, Photographer
San Marcos | CA | United States | Posted: 2:08 AM on 11.13.09
->> I'm sorry guys but I found this to be absolutely outrageous. For full disclosure I am former Law Enforcement and this is a serious over stepping here!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY2cCPW3H7g
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David Harpe, Photographer
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 3:26 AM on 11.13.09
->> I wish law enforcement AND the general public would understand and accept two basic facts:

1. If a person intent on doing evil is trying to do some sort of recon of a public space, the LAST thing they will do is stand in plain sight with a large, conspicuous camera. What they will do is stand in the corner with their iPhone and pretend to send a text message while their camera is running.

2. If security at any location is so fragile that a photograph or video taken from a public location is a threat, the people responsible for security at that location need to stop wasting time messing with photographers and instead devote resources to beefing up security.
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 9:57 AM on 11.13.09
->> This is just too unpleasant to watch.
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Renay Johnson, Photographer
San Diego | CA | | Posted: 12:19 PM on 11.13.09
->> The only that I see which should be illegal is the fact that someone gave those two inbreeds guns and badges. I can't believe how stupid that Sheriff sounds. Not one, but two douchebags.
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Anthony Soufflé, Photographer
St. Louis | MO | USA | Posted: 1:48 PM on 11.13.09
->> What I thought was really crazy is CNN calling the cop a "hero." Here's a direct quote from the transcript of their November 11th broadcast...

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR:

"Sorry you don't believe in public safety. That's how out of touch this photographer/blogger seems to be on this video. He posts the officer's name as if the officer is guilty of, well, doing his job. You know what? The L.A. County's sheriff's deputy, Richard Gylfie, it seems to me he is a hero. He is doing what we're paying him to do. We would probably be able to argue, wouldn't we, that we need more like him"

Here's a link to the transcript in it's entirety (scroll down)... I was fuming when I saw it.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0911/11/cnr.07.html
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Bryon Houlgrave, Photographer
Mason City | Ia | USA | Posted: 2:16 PM on 11.13.09
->> While I agree with the photographer's right to be there, I have to admit his demeanor and attitude towards the deputy was a little abrasive. I think he could have saved himself the problems he encountered if he acted a little more professionally.
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Alex Witkowicz, Photographer
Denver | Co | USA | Posted: 2:33 PM on 11.13.09
->> Unbelievable! People are still shooting film?
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Mark Smith, Photographer
Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 2:36 PM on 11.13.09
->> Bryon, he wasn't really looking to save himself problems.
I don't know anything about him, but it is not necessary for him to act professionally, as what he was doing was not illegal, regardless of whether or not he is an amateur or pro.
What he is trying to do is underscore and highlight the idiocy that is going on, and it will make everyone's jobs easier when people see this and realize it is foolish for cops to act this way.
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JC Ridley, Photographer
Coral Springs | FL | US | Posted: 2:38 PM on 11.13.09
->> Rick Sanchez doesn't believe in public safety, or at least he didn't back in 1990...

http://celebgalz.com/rick-sanchez-dui-rick-sanchez-hit-and-run-death/
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Bryon Houlgrave, Photographer
Mason City | Ia | USA | Posted: 2:52 PM on 11.13.09
->> Mark,

I'm not advocating on behalf of the sheriff's departments actions here, and I think the threats by the sheriff were uncalled for. There was just an in-your-face attitude the photographer took with the sheriff from the very beginning that grated me.

I'm all for a stand against illegal detainment, but in this case it just appeared the photographer was trying to get into an altercation with law enforcement for the sake of a story. Just my opinion.
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 3:14 PM on 11.13.09
->> Byron,

How is he supposed to act when the first words from the deputy, besides "sir," are "You can't be, no photographs in here"? Before asking any questions, the cop states that the photographer is breaking the law. Yeah, the photographer could have acted passively, and that's what most people would probably do. But it's good to see somebody standing up for their rights while telling the cop that he is wrong.
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Alan Herzberg, Photographer
Elm Grove | WI | USA | Posted: 3:16 PM on 11.13.09
->> Mark Smith stated my thoughts exactly.

Sure, being polite or professional (or submissive) reduces the odds that a cop will stop you or detain you more than a moment, but one of the things the Bill of Rights is intended to do is make sure that people don't have to act in a manner pleasing to government officials in order to avoid problems.
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Joe Kaleita, Photographer
Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 3:23 PM on 11.13.09
->> Byron,

How did you see that as an in-your-face attitude?

What I saw was an illegal detention of a law-abiding citizen who did nothing to invite the attention of the deputies and who was mostly passive during the whole encounter.

The threats weren't just uncalled for. The entire encounter was uncalled for. In order to detain you, an officer needs to have a reasonable suspicion that you have committed or are about to commit a crime. Refusing to answer an officer's question does not constitute reasonable suspicion.

Sure, he probably could have been on his way in about two minutes if he had been polite and told the officer he was just a sightseer taking snapshots.

But that's not the point. If he had taken the route of least resistance, we never would have heard about it. And that's the point. We need to make sure that these agents of the government, who are vested with an extraordinary amount of power, are not abusing that power.
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 3:24 PM on 11.13.09
->> It's pretty obvious this guy was taking photos in the subway right in front this cop to see if/what kind of reaction he would get. If the cop were smart he would've picked up on that and walked away when the shooter said "I'm a photographer's rights advocate." The cop obviously isn't that smart because he doesn't even know the rules of the MTA that's he's so adamant about protecting.
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Bryon Houlgrave, Photographer
Mason City | Ia | USA | Posted: 3:40 PM on 11.13.09
->> Mark, thanks for spelling my name right.

Again, I'm not suggesting the photographer should cave to law enforcement when he has every right to be there. I've never been in a situation quite like that, and if I were I'd argue my rights too, but the impression that I got in THIS CASE was that he went there with nothing more than the intentions make a situation.
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Adam Vogler, Photographer, Photo Editor
Kansas City | Mo. | USA | Posted: 5:05 PM on 11.13.09
->> "he went there with nothing more than the intentions make a situation"

So what?

He wasn't doing anything wrong. The deputies were. If they had acted according to the law there never would have been a situation. The photographers intentions are IRRELEVANT.

Full disclosure: I'm still a little hot after having this same argument with a deputy this week.
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Bryon Houlgrave, Photographer
Mason City | Ia | USA | Posted: 5:16 PM on 11.13.09
->> All I'm saying is that I'm not going to rush out and grab my torch and pitchfork in this case. If it was you or I, you bet I would.
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 5:41 PM on 11.13.09
->> If there's a law for being stupid, this sheriff's deputy broke it.

I picked up on the same thing that Bradley did, as soon as the photogrpaher says "I'm a photographer's rights advocate" the officer should have used his head for something other than a cap rack.

He didn't - he decided to strong arm the guy which is exactly what the guy wanted him to do.

There is a downside to this. This will work it's way through the web, where millions will view it - including other police officers. Some will get the message, but plenty of others won't. One of those officers will cross paths with a photographer and off to the races we'll go.

If the guy wanted to challenge the guy and do some good, there were other approaches that would have worked. This guy's intent was to keep baiting the officer, and the officer took every inch of the bait.

The deputy was wayyyyyyyyyyy off base; not to mentioned played like a piano. I see very little upside to this for any of us.

Knowing our rights just got tougher.
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Vasiliy Baziuk, Photographer
Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 6:51 PM on 11.13.09
->> Alright, here are my thoughts.... I have not watched the full video yet b/c the photog is acting stupid.... he is pushing his limits with the officer for the sake of pushing the limits.

1)the photog has no respect for authority
2)sounds like he is arrogant
3)and seems like he doing all this just to irritate the officer
4)that officer should have arrest him just for the attitude alone and sent him to the big house!

I shoot a lot in the public places, and go into many public buildings and I have no problem with any authority.... for one, I have respect for authority. If they ask me who I am and what I'm doing and for who I tell them and they usually leave me alone. Sometimes, they ask me for my press credentials (b/c I don't wear them around my neck like I should) just to reassure them that I am who I say I am. I don't run from them, I don't give them lip, and we get along just fine.

So if you are a photographer... just have respect for authority, abide by the rules and don't be a jerk to authority.... is this so hard?
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Sam Morris, Photographer
Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 7:16 PM on 11.13.09
->> Vasiliy, you just made this thread a double wow.
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Andrew Link, Photographer
West Bend | WI | USA | Posted: 8:27 PM on 11.13.09
->> "Every time I photograph a crime scene, I get detained."

I wonder why?
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Mark Smith, Photographer
Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 8:28 PM on 11.13.09
->> Vasiliy, "arrest him just for the attitude alone"?
Seriously?
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Nick Adams, Photographer
Salt Lake City | UT | | Posted: 8:59 PM on 11.13.09
->> All a terrorist needs to do is search flickr...

http://www.flickr.com/search/?ss=2&w=all&q=%22la+subway%22&m=text

The guy being a photographer's rights advocate, it seems like his goal was to get detain in some way to make a point.
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Mark Peters, Photographer
Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 9:53 PM on 11.13.09
->> This is NOT a defense of the officer's action - he reminded me of Farva from Super Troopers actually....

But I found it interesting that he's shooting film - but has a discrete video camera rolling from moment one.
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David Harpe, Photographer
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 10:38 PM on 11.13.09
->> just have respect for authority, abide by the rules and don't be a jerk to authority.

You should respect LAWS. The people who enforce laws are just as fallible as the people who try to follow them. They can make mistakes...and when they do, they should be subject to the same process of evaluation and punishment taxpayers go through when they break a law. I don't know if this officer deserves to have his career ruined over this - it's not my call. Just as a judge determines whether a person should get probation or full sentence, someone else needs to look at this officer's overall record and make that determination.

That's how the system has to work. Taxpayers GRANT law enforcement their authority. It is not a "right". We give them the power to boss us around because we trust them to carry out their duties in a professional and just manner. That trust comes with the requirement that they not only enforce the laws correctly, but that they live by them as well. For that, we give them handcuffs, guns and cars and trust them to use them appropriately. It's their job.

As for the "abide by the rules" part...it does not apply in this particular situation because THERE ARE NO RULES against what the photographer did. He abided by all of the applicable rules, which is why this whole incident is even an issue.
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 11:57 PM on 11.13.09
->> It's a damn shame that morons like this deputy are allowed out of the house in the morning.

"abide by the rules"

The photographer was abiding by the rules, the deputy was not.
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David Manning, Photographer
Athens | GA | | Posted: 12:26 AM on 11.14.09
->> I had some local cops be very rude to me only to have their superiors apologize to me for it.

No harm, no foul. All i ask is for fair treatment and the police to treat me as a human being and be civil when talking with me. You want me to respect your requests, I ask that you be polite when you talk to me.
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Jeremy Harmon, Photo Editor, Photographer
Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 12:28 AM on 11.14.09
->> Vasiliy? Really? The only rule the photographer broke is a rule the deputy invented.
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Ken Blaze, Photographer
Cleveland | OH | USA | Posted: 12:35 AM on 11.14.09
->> Vasily you need to rethink what you posted.
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Mike Anzaldi, Photographer
Oak Park | IL | USA | Posted: 12:52 AM on 11.14.09
->> shawn does something (writes/contributes/owns??) with the discarted.wordpress.com blog. he is one of the fellows who interviewed me after i was arrested while shooting news in chicago. they were the first to write about my ordeal. seems like a good guy. also seems as though he was absolutely fine with taking this guy on for the purpose of showing everyone how ridiculous law enforcement is post 9/11. that is to say, he was likely looking for a fight. he might dispute that. however, public transportation is usually a slam dunk for confrontation between photogs and cops. the police treat it as private property, period. forget about the written policies allowing photos. photogs are the only ones who know of or care about those policies. it just seems obvious to many (including the cnn anchor) that photos on transit lines should be prohibited for the safety of all of us.

pretty funny video actually. two options here: either the cop thinks he is busting a terrorist, or he is harassing the photog. what else is there?

more importantly, is AL QAEDA buying freelancer images- as suggested in the video? there are plenty of turnstyle devices in the chicago area i could shoot on spec.

vasiliy-
being arrogant or having attitude is not really illegal- even if it is directed at a cop. good, bad or otherwise- it just isn't illegal. i think what you might be saying is that cops deserve a different/higher level of respect than some ordinary citizen. (i'm assuming you wouldn't offer your name and business to just anyone who asked you on the street) that's cool, and it obviously works for you. however, the law is supposed to protect this guy from this cop. he wanted to take pictures, and the cop obstructed him from doing so, and used inappropriate threats to boot. the law doesn't really require citizens to obey unlawful orders from cops just because they are cops. by design, police are intimidating for the purpose of getting people to comply quickly without discussion. but, if discussion does take place, cops need to handle that within the law. in illinois, cops aren't even granted the authority to demand ID unless they suspect a crime has or will be committed. so if this case were illinois, the cop would have issues explaining to a judge why he thought the camera guy needed to be questioned. answering: "because of 9/11" would not work here. the dude was shooting the turnstyles. hardly a threat to public safety.
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Wesley Hitt, Photographer
Fayetteville | AR | USA | Posted: 6:57 AM on 11.14.09
->> I have been detained/questioned three times while taking photos and never had a problem. The last time was shooting stock on a highway overpass. A trucker radioed me in to the police. They asked me to stop taking photos, I did. They asked what I was doing, I explained. They asked for ID, I gave them my drivers license and business card. They went and checked me out on their radio. Came back and gave me my license back and we chatted awhile and they left and I continued to take photos. I agree with Bryon that the photographer was looking for a fight. He did not show the Cop any respect in answering his questions and with a different attitude from the photographer this would have never happened. He is recording this with video and sound so he was prepared for the incident to happen.
I explain each time to the police that this is what I did before 9/11. It is my right in America. I know the rules have changed, but if I stop doing what I did before because of fear from terrorists, then the terrorists have won. I expect the police to show up and am ready to answer their questions so that we can both go back to work.
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 10:06 AM on 11.14.09
->> I am kinda torn both ways here. I believe that a police office should be able to tell the intent of someone without having to interview them and put handcuffs on them.

But I also see it his way in that he was just trying to do his job.

In the end I still feel that the art of conversation has lost it's way between human beings. Especially police towards people. Now I know that is a general statement so I apologize.

I just wish that with all of this training that police do that they learn to talk to people, there are right ways and wrong ways to get what you want, and it seems the police in these videos always are doing it the wrong way.
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Nick Morris, Photographer
San Marcos | CA | United States | Posted: 1:36 PM on 11.14.09
->> As a former police officer (Federal Agent if you want to get technical) I always tried to be consistant in the way I dealt with people. I was raised to be polite and respectful and it carried over into my adult life. However, I understand now that not all situations are open to this approach and in certain situations I had to take the power of authority route to gain control and became a bit over bearing. In all of my situations there was a very strong chance of violence and the presence of weapons and drugs. I never worked a beat or the streets if you will so I can't speak to much about that mind set. I have though spent many nights and days with beat cops on special details and there is a sense of power thats wielded by ALL officers. The difference lies in how that power is weilded and to what extent they press their will upon others. I have seen things MUCH worse than this video and to be fair I have seen some officer go so far out of their way to help an individual it made me question my own ethics. Now I left befor 911 so I can't speak for the current mind set. I'm sure it's changed in many ways but this sort of thing has to change. As for the guy "looking for a fight" no, I think he is looking to make a point and that is their are WAY too many officers out there who OVER STEP their authority and boundaries.
Now imagine if you will he submitted to this officers will... he just added a sense of power and acheivment to this officer and the same happens the next time and again and again until sometime down the road some poor sap stands up to him and breaks the chain. He now has a past history of people bowing down to his authority and in his mind he's developed a stronger sense of being right. What do you think is going to happen to this poor sap now? I'm all for people keeping our law enforcement in check. Beleive me after working where I worked and seeing what I seen (all pre 911) It's needed! Not all Law Enforcement are bad but the ones that are... gives a whole new meaning to bad. What makes it worse is there is not much and innocent person under those same circumstances can do unless he's recording also. It comes down to your word against theirs and theirs carries much more weight than yours. My 2 cents from the peanut gallery.
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Mark Smith, Photographer
Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 4:42 PM on 11.14.09
->> The officer could have easily engaged the photographer in polite conversation, and in doing so, likely could have made a determination that he was not a terrorist and was not committing a crime.

Having authority does not demand or even excuse rudeness. Additionally, being polite instead of combative and heavy-handed, is a better approach to gathering information.

The problem many law enforcement officers have is a mindset of "us vs. them", with "them" being anyone not in uniform. That mindset is not helpful to their cause, but is way too common.
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Vasiliy Baziuk, Photographer
Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 4:57 PM on 11.14.09
->> Sam, I hope it's a good double wow.

Mark, Yes, send him to the big house, lol (i'm being sarcastic there too...) there is no reason why he should be rude to the officer... the officer asked him a simple question and that photog can't even answer that properly without going into an arguent? it's because of people like him that photogs get a bad rep. next time that officer sees me he'll think “oh, look another jerk photographer taking pictures.”

the point i'm trying to make is be nice, be polite, remember the golden rule.

Jeremy, that photog could have avoided all that just by saying who he was and what he was doing from the get go.

Ken, i do think about what i post.

Mike, great post! that's exacly what i wanted to get across.

half the argument here is not about “legal or illegal” it's just about common sense on the photogs part.

and yes i would offer my name and business to just about anyone who asks me on the street. i do this frequently.... why? because i have nothing to hide and i'm not gonna argue with someone whether it's legal or illegal to take pictures. if you are a working press photographer you get special treatment then a non press photog, or a civilian just taking pictures.

for example, my current update on SS.com features Rochester neighborhoods.... as i was shooting at those neighberhoods i had all kind of people asking me who i was, what i was doing and for what purpose. so i told them. when they asked me for ID i said. “here ya go.... here is my work press pass ID with with my picture, and here is my valid 2009 New York State Sheriffs' Association pass signed by the Ontario County Sheriff stating that I am a working press member.” and what do people say when I show them that? “Oh, ok... I was just wondering what you were taking pictures for.... that is my kid on the swings over there.” end of conversation conflict avoided. i don't go into an argument weather it's legal or illigal to take pictures there.

another example: i was taking pictures outside a public high school of the building. the security gard came out, hollered at me, so i put down my camera, walked up to him and told him what i was doing there and for who. what did that security guard say????? “oh, ok.... just checking to see who you were.”

i believe that's why we have press credentials to show anyone who asks.... who we are and what we are doing. and not to argue with them whether it's legal or illegal to take pictures. have any of you ever tried getting though a road block to get to an accident w/o a press credential????? oh it's legal to take pictures there, but they won't let just anyone go through.

officer: “why are you taking pictures?”
photog: “because i want to.”

officer: “i want to know why you are taking pictures?”
photo: “but it's not illigal?”

well of couse it's not illegal to take picures.... but answer the officers question and don't give him lip.... cuz as that video shows if you give police officers lip, they will give you lip right back... plus that officer has a pair of handcuffs and a gun......

what i'm saying is if that photog said who he was, what he was doing, and for what.... maybe he wouldn't be in that situation and we wouldn't be talking about this.
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Jeremy Harmon, Photo Editor, Photographer
Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 8:56 PM on 11.14.09
->> "Jeremy, that photog could have avoided all that just by saying who he was and what he was doing from the get go."

He did.
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Vasiliy Baziuk, Photographer
Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 11:14 PM on 11.14.09
->> no he didn't.... why wouldn't the photog show his credz to the office? what was the photog trying to hide? that's just ignorance on the photogs part.... and job well done on the officers part!
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Jeremy Harmon, Photo Editor, Photographer
Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 11:57 PM on 11.14.09
->> When asked who he was and what he was doing he identified himself as a "photo rights advocate" and said he was taking photos. What else does the photographer need to do? Since when does somebody need "credz" to shoot in public?

It's obvious this guy was trying to make a point with some knucklehead cop, and he certainly found the right knucklehead. But he didn't do anything wrong, did he? When government or law enforcement agencies tread on the rights of every day people it's up to everyday people to hold them accountable.

You have said that this guy should respect authority. But should this guy, or any of us for that matter, respect authority when the authority useless baseless claims and false information to detain people who aren't breaking the law?
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Kirby Yau, Photographer, Assistant
San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 12:31 AM on 11.15.09
->> Let ditch the S.O.P of arguing the point until we reach 51 posts. Let's make this thread productive.

As photographers, what do we need to do if this happens to one of us?
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Mike Janes, Photographer
Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 12:52 AM on 11.15.09
->> Vasilily you're completely wrong and law enforcement who've seen this video disagree with you. It's a citizens right to take photos in public, not just someone associated with media, so he has no reason to have to show a credential in the first place. You have a media pass but the average citizen does not - and they are within their rights to take photos in public just as much as you or any media are. It's protected under law and you'd think an officer knows this!

Yes, he could have handled it better, but the officer was in no way doing a good job - I mean come on, he doesn't even know the law! Worst part is this type of situation happened already and you would think departments would use it as an example of what not to do for their employees. The officer had absolutely no reason whatsoever to bring up a terrorist threat other than trying to come up with a reason to detain someone that was not doing anything illegal, he had no right at all to threaten the photog with claims he'll give his info to the FBI and ruin his life. The only law I see broken is that of harassment on the officers part.

Speaking of unprofessional behavior do you think it's really appropriate to post the comment on youtube? I'm assuming it's you with the name MessengerPost since you work there. You're now saying this is what the Post thinks by doing it under their name, you're speaking for them with that comment and not sure the publisher would agree.
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David Harpe, Photographer
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 3:10 AM on 11.15.09
->> Both sides could have handled it better. It turned into a p*s*ing contest from the first volley, and once it got there the whole cop ego thing kicked in and there was no way the cop was going to back down. He was basically pulling crap out of his butt to try to get the guy to leave. This guy didn't fall for it. That's what happened - the rest is just fallout.

Vasilily makes good points about how to handle yourself in a situation where you have the opportunity to avoid conflict. There was not much of an opportunity here. The cop was confrontational from the very first moment, and the guy with the camera stood his ground from the very first moment. There's no way of knowing what would have happened if the photographer had not dug in. Chances are the cop wouldn't have stopped until the guy stopped taking pictures. That was his play from the first moment, and he's not going to lose.

So what could you do? As so many have pointed out, letting the cop get away with it just makes it worse for the next guy in line...just as giving away photos makes it harder for the next guy to make a living.

The only other approach that might have worked would be to say something like, "Okay, I'm putting the camera down. Look, I know you're only doing what you think you should be doing here. I'm going to stop taking pictures now and leave, but I'm going to come back in an hour and take pictures. Who do I need to talk to so that you know it's okay for me to be here? Is there a supervisor, someone that you need to hear from? Because I know you don't believe me when I tell you it's legal for me to be here, and I know someone is telling you to do this. So let me know who that is and I'll clear it with them so we both can stay out of trouble."

This gives the cop a "way out" so it doesn't seem like a complete back down, which may seem silly but it is important. The cop is NEVER going to say, "Hey, you know Mr. Who-the-heck-are-you, you're right. I totally forgot the law. I'm sorry to have bothered you. Keep taking pictures..." By obeying his initial command - even though it is misguided - it shows respect. And if you show respect, he might continue to listen. He might not, but he definitely won't if you don't show at least a little respect.

Without respect, the game is over, even if the cop didn't show you any. If you dig in on the street, you will lose. You may be vindicated later in court, and the cop might get a hand slap after wasting months of your time. But you'll be out of the game and not get your photos, and some of your gear might get beat up. Again you might get it all back and then some, but it'll take a long time...years, usually.

There is no harm in trying a negotiated solution first. You can always dig in later, get arrested and have your day in court if it doesn't work.
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David G. McIntyre, Photographer
Beijing | . | CHINA | Posted: 4:28 AM on 11.15.09
->> I am on the cops side in the fact that he wanted to know why pictures were being taken.

I agree with the fact that the metro is a possible location of attack, and the photographer should of said why he was taking photos, and not acting like a smart a**.


The photographer should have identified himself as a photographer, and the reason he was doing it. Maybe the cop should take pictures of the photographer, and say:'Because I want to, and your in a public space."

The photographer should of handled it better from the start, and should find another line of work where he can use his manners better.
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Dave Doonan, Photographer
Kingston | TN | USA | Posted: 9:23 AM on 11.15.09
->> My take on this is:
1. the photog seemed loaded down for a fight, he comes with a video and still camera, and when that goes dark, the audio is still working. My impression is that he went there looking for a fight,and got what he wanted, and played like the injured party. Also, he shoots film, so that when hes detained they cannot view the images.Lastly, he announces he's an advocate, i don't know who he's speaking for, but its not me!

2.The officer was a little zealous in his job, possibly because of inadqueate training, or the possibility that he was a power-hungry jerk.He also needs to get his facts straight if hes going to hold an intelligent conversation.

3. I can't believe anyone cares about what Rick Sanchez has to say. Hes a stain on CNN who cares more about what the viewers have to say through Facebook, Twitter, and other social networking sites than deliver the news. But that's the direction media is sliding down to, so we need to just ignore him, and he'll go away.
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Mike Janes, Photographer
Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 1:56 PM on 11.15.09
->> DavidG - he did say why he was taking photos, he wanted to. You don't need a reason other than that - what if this was average person taking photos there and didn't know the law and rights they have? This is not a location you need a credential to shoot and the cop lied from the get go saying you're not allowed to take photos, it's against metro rules, then tried to come up with something and made up things about terrorism and the FBI watch list when he was called out on being wrong. The photog could have acted better and was probably looking for it, no doubt about it, but there's no reason at all to just bow down and do as this guy says when he's wrong.
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Mark Smith, Photographer
Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 4:10 PM on 11.15.09
->> The confrontation was initiated by the cop.
If he was really the professional he thinks he is, he could have gotten all of the information he needed in a civil conversation. Instead, what he did was to play the bully, by using his badge and handcuffs as tools. The fact that he did that is bad enough. The fact that free American citizens defend him for doing it, is horrifying.
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Sherrlyn Borkgren, Photographer
Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 5:11 PM on 11.15.09
->> OMG put together an irritating bullying cop and a smart alec guy with a camera in his hands and you get this.

What's wrong with just being nice when someone, cop or not asks you why your taking pictures. Saying "because I want to" sounds rude no matter to whom he was answering.

there are situations where we need to support each other as news reporters. In this situation if I were there I would have supported him even though I don't agree with his "victimizing" himself.


If the photographer isn't doing anything illegal,or being an AH, we need to support and stand up for one another---especially when covering news.

If a photojournalist is not interfering with the officials on the scene we have the constitutional right to cover the news.
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David G. McIntyre, Photographer
Beijing | . | CHINA | Posted: 1:34 AM on 11.16.09
->> Mike-I guess your right, but the thing that just irks me mostly is that he had a video camera running the whole time, as if he was looking to make a video.

I run into situations like this often in China (different then the US for sure), and I find the best thing to do is to walk away and not bring attention to it. It isn't worth the hassle.

Professional looking gear is also a way of drawing attention. My motto in many places I travel and work, is to look like a tourist, and just be low key about it.

Regardless who the cop is, etc., he is still a human being like us.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 9:04 AM on 11.16.09
->> Look this guy setup a 'sting' to catch a predator. In this case the predator is someone looking to further erode rights that we have had for decades prior to 9-11. What he did, setting up a hidden camera, baiting the prey by doing something perfectly legal, and then moving in for the kill, is no different than taking some fresh faced 20-something out an academy putting her in a pushup bra, short shorts, torn hose and reeling in the johns.

I'm not seeing a difference. REALLY. The cop was baited and even given the chance to "do the right thing" instead he continued to escalate the encounter. Again no different than a prostitution sting where the officer is asked if she's cop and answers "Do I look like a cop?" while pushing (insert body part) into the johns face. For me the cop sealed the deal with the threat of FBI listing. That was the line that should get this guy canned, suspended (WITHOUT PAY) or busted to a desk and feather duster for 12 months.

Being human is not an excuse for lacking the controls or skill set for the job that you have chosen. My dentist is human and I swear that if he had had a bad day and pulled the wrong tooth I wouldn't be forgiving him either. Then next time I need surgery I'd like to know that the surgeon doesn't have A.D.D. and IF HE DOES I'd hope that it was picked up in residency and that he would have been ushered into a more appropriate line of medicine, like research or teaching. So if this officer is prone to outbursts of abusing his power, and lacks the self awareness to know it, it is up to the brass to help him find a line of civil service that is more in keeping with his human trait. There are plenty of human cops that manage to do the job day in and out while maintaining 100% of the control and respect (both directions) that are core to the job.


E
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 10:34 AM on 11.16.09
->> Sherrlyn, We do have the right to cover news. We also have the right to take photos in publicly visible places for no reason whatsoever. In the U.S. nobody is required to provide any reason at all for why they were taking pictures.

(Yes, I know about exceptions for national security sites.)

--Mark
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 11:20 AM on 11.16.09
->> "The photographer should have identified himself as a photographer"

Doesn't the camera do that?
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