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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Nikon D3s Officially Announced. 720/24P, up to 102400 ISO.
Rod Leland, Photographer, Assistant
Lethbridge | AB | Canada | Posted: 12:40 AM on 10.14.09
->> Cat's Outta the bag. I'm disappointed with the specs personally. The flagship camera launching without 1080P? Apparently there is a new algorithm to combat the rolling shutter issues, but still. I'm excited to see test frames at the STANDARD, I repeat NON "Hi" 12800.

Full specs:

* New 12.1 megapixel Full-Frame (36 x 24 mm) sensor
* ISO 200 - 12800 (ISO 100 - 102,400 in Boost mode)
* 720p / 24 fps HD movie mode
* Eleven frames per second in continuous and DX mode
* Larger buffer for 48 RAW frames in one burst (18 on the D3)
* Multi-CAM3500FX Auto Focus sensor (51-point, 15 cross-type, more vertical coverage), fine-tuned for improved acquisition and tracking
* In-camera RAW processing
* Also supports DX lenses, viewfinder automatically masks (5.1 megapixels with DX lens)
* 14-bit A/D conversion, 12 channel readout
* Nikon EXPEED image processor
* Super fast operation (power-up 12 ms, shutter lag 41 ms, black-out 74 ms)
* Kevlar / carbon fibre composite shutter with 300,000 exposure durability
* Auto-focus tracking by color (using information from 1005-pixel AE sensor)
* Auto-focus calibration (fine-tuning) available (fixed body or up to 20 separate lens settings)
* Scene Recognition System (uses AE sensor, AF sensor)
* Dual Compact Flash card slots (overflow, back-up, RAW on 1 / JPEG on 2, Stills on 1 / Movies on 2, copy)
* Compact Flash UDMA support
* 3.0" 922,000 pixel LCD monitor
* Live View with either phase detect (mirror up/down) or improved (30% faster) contrast detect Auto Focus
* Virtual horizon indicates if camera is level, available on the LCD during video capture
* HDMI HD video output
* 'Active D-Lighting' 'Extra High' setting (adjusts metering as well as applying D-Lighting curve)
* Detailed 'Control Panel' type display on LCD monitor, changes color in darkness
* Buttons sealed against moisture
* Dual battery charger as standard
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:47 AM on 10.14.09
->> 12,800??

That means we can shoot at most High Schools now ;)

Just kidding :D
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Patrick Meredith, Photographer, Assistant
Austin | TX | USA | Posted: 12:57 AM on 10.14.09
->> Yes, another $5k+ body!


Where are the fast primes at??????
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Joel Kowsky, Student/Intern, Photographer
Columbia/Morris | MO/IL | United States | Posted: 12:59 AM on 10.14.09
->> http://nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Digital-SLR/25466/D3S.html

It still only shoot at 9fps in FX mode, 11fps is in DX crop only, just like the original D3.

I have to wonder why still only 720p for the video though?

Should be pretty cool though, can't wait to see some images shot at 102,400 ISO
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Kevin M. Cox, Photographer, Assistant
Galveston & Houston | TX | US | Posted: 1:04 AM on 10.14.09
->> Sample images:
http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/digitalcamera/slr/d3s/samp...
Sample video:
http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/microsite/d3s_d3x/en/d-mov.../

Rob Galbraith:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10044-10302

DP Review:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0910/09101403NikonD3shandson.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0910/09101402nikonD3s.asp
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Simon Keitch, Photographer
Plymouth | Devon | UK | Posted: 6:05 AM on 10.14.09
->> The only surprise for me is the ISO 102400; otherwise it's just as I thought it would be... Not enough to warrant upgrading from the D3 (for me).
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Simon Keitch, Photographer
Plymouth | Devon | UK | Posted: 7:03 AM on 10.14.09
->> Just had an email from a camera dealer here in the UK notifying me that they're taking pre-orders for the D3s at GBP £4199 a pop. I'd personally rather have the extra pixels of the D3X for only £700 more. Horses for courses though I guess.
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David Harpe, Photographer
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 7:28 AM on 10.14.09
->> Wow, after two years that is really disappointing.

The buffer improvement is just Nikon pre-installing the buffer mod you've always been able to have installed in the original D3 at the factory. Nothing new.

720p24 video is a yawner these days...particularly since they already have a body out that does this already (albeit poorly). Almost all of the other features are minor improvements to features already available on the D3.

The high ISO stuff is very cool, and it would be useful in certain situations. But it's not something I'd personally use all the time. For me, definitely not worth giving them another $4k (after sale of my D3).

Not going to get in line for this one.
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Grant Blankenship, Photographer
Macon | GA | USA | Posted: 8:41 AM on 10.14.09
->> "Where are the fast primes at??????"

I'm assuming the they think fast primes are an afterthought at ISO googleplex.

So, if everyone is less than impressed, does this mean I can't expect a flood of used D3 bodies in the classifieds?
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 8:57 AM on 10.14.09
->> I could give a hoot about the video. If the iso at 8000-ish is as clean as the current D3 is at 5000 I'm in! Just emailed 'friends'. Grant if the high ISO is what I'm expecting there will be a low mileage D3 being offered my me once the "s" is out.
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Daniel Putz, Photographer
Jefferson | MD | USA | Posted: 9:22 AM on 10.14.09
->> I can see 720p being a real advantage for Newspaper photogs who now no longer would need to carry 2 sets of equipment for short interview pieces.

Who puts 1080p on the web regularly anyway?
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Jon Gardiner, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:23 AM on 10.14.09
->> Check out the Frakes piece...

http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Digital-SLR/25466/D3S.html

It's on the far right under the camera
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Randy Abrams, Photographer
Bath | NY | US | Posted: 9:40 AM on 10.14.09
->> I'm with Eric, but I want to see some side-by-side comparison shots (D3s vs. D3....same scene, same setup) starting at ISO 3200 on up. Once I see something like that I'll make a final decision.
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Luke Sharrett, Student/Intern
Forest | VA | United States | Posted: 9:40 AM on 10.14.09
->> "Paging Canon USA...please pick up the red courtesy phone."
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Rob Bye, Photographer
Winnipeg | MB | Canada | Posted: 10:57 AM on 10.14.09
->> I foresee all the gains Nikon has made over the past two years beginning to slip away. The D3 and D300 were vast improvements over previous models, but now we're only seeing small, incremental increases.
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Jonathan Castner, Photographer, Assistant
Longmont | CO | USA | Posted: 10:59 AM on 10.14.09
->> To me this move by Nikon makes total sense. The D4 will most likely have a new/bigger/better video system that will be 1080p. In the meantime they retain their hold on the market of sports/news/wildlife photographers with an improved D3 now with a usable 720p for web use. Let's face it: most of us who shoot video rarely get to output it at full resolution - we are normally squashing it down for web use. Given that, 720p is more than enough. Oh and unlike say the 5DII it shoots fast and focuses too!

As for me, I'm waiting for a D700s.
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Brandon Gresham, Photographer
Homewood | AL | USA | Posted: 11:07 AM on 10.14.09
->> Was already thinking about picking up another D3, but I waited to hear the specs on the "S"

So the question is, is it worth paying $200 extra for video and the higher ISO at $5199, or just go buy a good old-fashioned D3 for $4999.

I was hoping the D3s would drop the D3 price a little, but since it's a replacement and not techincally a "step up", I'm guessing they'll stay at 4999 until they run out of stock huh?
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David Harpe, Photographer
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 11:17 AM on 10.14.09
->> I can see 720p being a real advantage for Newspaper photogs who now no longer would need to carry 2 sets of equipment for short interview pieces. Who puts 1080p on the web regularly anyway?

Using that logic most photojournalists would be pretty well served just using a 3GS iPhone. More than enough for the web, as you say.

If all you shoot is for the web you don't need 12MP in a still camera, either. But we shoot with larger resolution than we need because it gives us flexibility...and to make sure we have enough resolution if we decide to use a shot for something else. You don't KNOW for certain that something you shoot today won't be used for something else...so you shoot at 8MP or 12MP as a hedge.

The difference between 24p and 30p is significant with motion. Likewise, a 50% increase in horizontal pixels in going from 1280 to 1920 is also significant. Even downconverted you can see a difference in texture, and it's glaringly obvious when you get to put the content on a really nice 46" flat panel TV. If you have an eye towards shooting footage that you might later resell as stock, 1080p is where you need to be. Check out Vimeo if you want to see a lot of gorgeous 1080p video on the web.

720p24 is as big a yawner in the video world as 6MP is in stills today. It's fine, but it's nothing to get excited about. If it was just tossed in as a part of a $3,000 camera body it would be easier to stomach. But when it's a primary feature in a flagship camera priced at over $5,000, it's a disappointment.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 11:19 AM on 10.14.09
->> Rob you must be joking. Slipping away!?!?!?!? To where????? Over what 720 versus 1080 video???

Lets just assume for a minute that the new AF engine is no better than the one in the D3. Even though it IS an upgrade. Who has a camera out here that can deliver ISO 12,800 AND focus under that kind of lighting, in a pro body that is sealed and designed to be used in the dimly lit mud pits that some of us work in??? Oh and a carbon fiber/kevlar shutter????? Hell I have OVER half a million frames shot on my original D3 which is still on it's FIRST shutter. I can only imaging that what a carbon/kevlar shutter will really do.

The only thing missing at this point is the blow-up doll option. Preferably one that is trained to use the camera so I can stay home and watch the game on TV. (I know what you guys were thinking....oink, oink..)
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Joe Boyd, Photographer
Huntsville | AL | USA | Posted: 11:51 AM on 10.14.09
->> Brandon, if you want a New D3, you'd better get one in the next few weeks. New D3 will disappear from distribution/stock soon after D3S is available (historical precedent of model upgrades). The price of Used D3's will drop as more become available after upgrades to the D3S. The price of a New D3 will remain stable because of lack of competition from Canon. You may find the odd dealer offering to discount a D3 to make room for the D3S, but no reductions from Nikon USA.
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 11:51 AM on 10.14.09
->> looking at that 6400 ISO images, there is zero noise and it is pretty sharp.

I don't remember what the D3 original looks like at 6400 ISO but the new s model looks damn clean
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Beck Diefenbach, Photographer
DeKalb | IL | USA | Posted: 12:04 PM on 10.14.09
->> Yes, we almost never get to post video at 1080, but I'd much rather have to pull a still from 1080 than 720. Taking a still during video recording cuts out a second from the video, so a freeze frame is sometimes the only way to go.
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Michael Troutman, Photographer
Carmel | CA | USA | Posted: 2:47 PM on 10.14.09
->> One look at the high ISO samples and the Frakes video and, yeah, I'm placing an order.
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Scott Schild, Photographer
Buffalo | NY | United States | Posted: 3:12 PM on 10.14.09
->> Canon? Can you see through that cloud of dust? Now if my white lenses could attach to a Nikon, adapter anyone?
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David M. Russell, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:43 PM on 10.14.09
->> I shoot in really low light all the time - regularly at ISO 4000 and 5000 - I've been happy with my D3.

I don't feel compelled to rush out and get a D3s, but DAMN. It's even cleaner at high ISO.
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Peter Buehner, Photographer
Orono | ME | USA | Posted: 6:24 AM on 10.15.09
->> Canon will give their rebuttal on Tuesday and given the 1D MkIII fiasco, I am certain that they have something to get some market share back (and make my 1D mk III a backup).
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Martin McNeil, Photographer
East Kilbride | Lanarkshire | United Kingdom | Posted: 8:46 AM on 10.15.09
->> David,

I'm with you for the moment; the D3s is a nice, mid-life update of the underlying D3 tech but for my own *personal* subject matter, I don't -need- that tech.

Don't get me wrong: I'd love to tinker with video and some of the other new features are neat, but they're not deal breakers for me. I guess I'll just patiently wait for the D4 series tech to arrive :)
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Kevin M. Cox, Photographer, Assistant
Galveston & Houston | TX | US | Posted: 12:35 AM on 11.06.09
->> Rob Galbraith just posted a hands-on with downloadable high resolution files:

Quoting from the article:
"The high ISO image quality improvements in the D3S are real, and they're substantial. Based on what we shot that evening it's safe to expect at least a one stop improvement, maybe more. In other words, overall image quality at ISO 6400 on the D3S is as least as good as ISO 3200 on the D3. And perhaps better, as you'll notice if you look at the photos we shot with both cameras at ISO 1600 and up."
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-10045-10329
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 1:20 PM on 11.06.09
->> hmm,

I looked at the 6400 on the new one and old one, I don't see a huge difference.

But ISO 3200 looks great
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 3:06 PM on 11.06.09
->> Maybe it's just my tired, old eyes.. but the high-ISO D3s samples I have seen recently are extremely impressive.

It seems that the quality gain over the original D3 is, as Rob says, a stop or more.

And having just finished up 6 games of the World Series where I shot the D3 at ISO 1600 - 6400 and thought the quality with that camera was fabulous ... the "s" will most certainly amp this up.

With the new 1D M-IV just around the corner, a Low-Light Battle Royale is sure to come!
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Andrew Carpenean, Photographer
Laramie | WY | USA | Posted: 3:36 PM on 11.06.09
->> Robert,

Would love to see some of those World Series images too.

I am wondering if the step up is because of the nano crystal glass? Looks like Galbraith found a cool event to do his testing. I just wish venues around where I live were as well lit. There are probably a lot of us that shoot in even darker conditions.
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 4:01 PM on 11.06.09
->> Nothing from a game. Comparison low-light/high iso files.

Very impressive at 6400+.
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Josh Lehrer, Photographer, Assistant
NY | NY | USA | Posted: 4:40 PM on 11.06.09
->> I am excited about the low-noise capabilities of both cameras, along with some other things. I can promise that once I get my hands on a 1D MkIV and a D3s, there will be some very thorough comparisons done.
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Randy Abrams, Photographer
Bath | NY | US | Posted: 5:02 PM on 11.06.09
->> This is what I've been looking for...head to head samples. To do these justice make sure you either open them in different windows and download them so you can flip back and forth. I downloaded them all and have been going back and forth between them and I find the D3S at 25600 is not far off the D3 at 6400. The colors look a little muddier, but that could also be a product of the slow shutter speed they used and the cycling of the lights. I'm definitely impressed. Has anyone heard of any of the testers commenting on the AF system? Isn't is said to be "improved"?
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Thread Title: Nikon D3s Officially Announced. 720/24P, up to 102400 ISO.
Thread Started By: Rod Leland
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