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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

job offer
Joe Cavaretta, Photographer
Ft Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 3:33 PM on 09.20.09
->> http://www.flickr.com/photos/old-curmudgeon/3935146726/
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Jody Gomez, Photographer
Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 4:46 PM on 09.20.09
->> Well...it beats what I'm getting paid now!

:~)
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Hal Smith, Photographer
Sedalia | MO | USA | Posted: 5:31 PM on 09.20.09
->> Joe,

I know it sounds like crap, and it is..., but a lot small newspapers pay even worse.

I guess experience doesn't count for much after spending a good portion of one's life excelling at a job these days.
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Jody Gomez, Photographer
Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 5:50 PM on 09.20.09
->> Hal,

It's not just the photo biz either...despite 20+ years in the mortgage industry, I lost my job in the housing implosion. Trying to find work has been an exercise in futility - I applied for a retail loan officer job with US Bank (something I've done for two decades) only to be told I'm not qualified because I don't have a college degree.

It's a scary world these days...
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Joshua Brown, Photographer
Waynesville | NC | USA | Posted: 7:38 PM on 09.20.09
->> My first post-grad job (August of 2005) started at a salary equal to $11/hr, and between $9.50-10 after health insurance. Exciting for a 22 year old, lame for someone who figured out what the non-college cost of living actually is.
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Joe Cavaretta, Photographer
Ft Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 8:34 PM on 09.20.09
->> Hey, my first job (the Las Cruces Sun-News) paid like this too...
I was more amazed at what it takes these days to be qualified even as entry level:
previous video experience
previous newspaper experience
working knowledge of Final Cut- etc.
preference to college graduate
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David Manning, Photographer
Athens | GA | | Posted: 8:47 PM on 09.20.09
->> Amazing how everyone wants you to have all this knowledge but doesn't want to pay for you having it.
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Adam Vogler, Photographer, Photo Editor
Kansas City | Mo. | USA | Posted: 8:52 PM on 09.20.09
->> That’s more than I got at my first two papers (2007-2008) and if you figure in the hours I work now as a salaried employee its more than I make now.

Welcome to the wonderful world of newspaper photography. They'll probably have a few hundred applicants for the gig to.

Want to get credentials for the big games? This is how. You bust your butt for less than a public school teacher makes for years, never knowing when you might get axed by some MBA in New York. You spend your free time working on stories for yourself or off the clock for the paper cause they won't expend the resources to do it right and if your lucky you MIGHT get the opportunity to deal with the NFL and NCAA's BS.

Shooting warm-ups at Arrowhead today I was reminded how lucky I was to have my low paying, physically and emotionally exhausting job when I saw the gleam in a 10 year-old’s eye as he got to be on the sidelines pre-game and overhead a guy talking to his buddy about how being there was a once and a lifetime opportunity. Its my office. I thought of all the PJ's that would kill to still be working at a paper. I work 60-70 hours a week for less than a assistant manager at freaking Quick-Trip and I’m VERY lucky to do it.

If I’m VERY lucky in a few years I’ll have the opportunity to move up in the pecking order, but for now I just try to remind myself that I get paid to do what I love and concentrate on putting out two A1’s a day, plus sports, plus a weekly feature and health tab.

Anything that’s truly worthwhile requires sacrifice. I don’t know if I have the chops to make it in this biz given its current state, I don’t know how long I can keep this up. I DO know that I could never respect myself if I didn’t try.

I guess that’s why I get so ticked at those who whine about not getting access to the “big” game. I got my season creds for the Chiefs. I’ve spent nearly $10,000 of my own money on gear and workshops plus another $15,000 on a comm degree to get them and I kind of feel like I haven’t gone through enough to deserve having them.

If you want it, go get it.

Sorry for the rant its been a long couple of weeks.

BTW I still prefer HS ball to anything the pros or D1 college has to offer, even better is the semi-pro football team that just started here.
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Russell Rinn, Photographer
Georgetown | Tx | USA | Posted: 9:53 PM on 09.20.09
->> That would be a raise for me.
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Dave Doonan, Photographer
Kingston | TN | USA | Posted: 10:14 PM on 09.20.09
->> I get paid weekly...
VERY weakly
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Thomas B. Shea, Photographer
Pearland/Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 10:11 AM on 09.21.09
->> That is actually a very good paper. I think Houston's AP photographer David J. Phillips and a couple Dallas Morning News Photographers started out at that paper. It least they are supplying the photo gear.
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Robert Scheer, Photographer
Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 10:38 AM on 09.21.09
->> Not a bad gig for an up and comer, IMO.

When I started out in Nor Cal in the mid-90s, I strung for a WEEKLY at a rate of $5 per published photo (did this for a year). I did a photo package every week, which pretty much let me eat that week.

Then I went to the local daily for a year, where I had to wear slacks, a dress shirt, tie, no benefits, no vacation, no gear, and got paid $6.50 an hour. Everybody worked MUCH more than 40 hours a week even though we didn't get OT as a rule. Yes, it was criminal.

It's called paying dues.
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David Gordon, Photographer
Somerville | MA | United States | Posted: 9:05 PM on 09.21.09
->> It pays more than I make now, and I live in Boston, where the cost of living is far higher. It also offers the same schedule that I work now.
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Jesse Beals, Photographer
Tracyton | WA | USA | Posted: 3:03 AM on 09.22.09
->> That offer is garbage. $12.00 an hour come on. Your working for free at that rate.
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T.J. Hamilton, Photographer
Grand Rapids | MI | USA | Posted: 8:56 AM on 09.22.09
->> Just think... you would be the envy of all your friends who work at fast food places that you are making so much more than minimum wage!
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Gerry Melendez, Photographer
Columbia | SC | USA | Posted: 9:19 AM on 09.22.09
->> From one of the posts

"The idea that journalists have never gotten paid well, so they shouldn't get paid well is a dangerous idea for this profession and it is what is going to ultimately keep many smart could have been great journalists away from this industry.

Its truly a shame that schools aren't teaching students to not accept such pitiful wages."

I think overall we've hurt ourselves by accepting such bad offers. The offer is not for a recent grad. It's for an experienced photojournalist and asks for many skills. No mention of benefits. One argument is that it's a small paper, but I guarantee you that many other employees (ad reps, editors, etc) are getting a decent wage. $12 an hour for an experienced photojournalist shows how highly they regard your skills.
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Kevin Leas, Photographer, Assistant
Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 12:02 PM on 09.22.09
->> That's more than a 10% raise from the last newspaper I was staffed at. I wish I was kidding...but then, that's why I said "see ya" when they told me I was either going to be a full time reporter or unemployed.
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Mark Peters, Photographer
Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 1:03 PM on 09.22.09
->> Gerry -

Given the many comments in this thread alone I would suggest that the $12 an hour shows how highly the market (both employers and employees) regards these skills. The supply/demand equation is a balance of the two.
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Ryan Brennecke, Photographer
Yuma | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:30 PM on 09.22.09
->> After two rounds of furloughs (10 days total), 5% cut in pay, and no OT despite working 50 hours most weeks along with our company declaring chap 11 bankruptcy last week...sounds about par for the course these days.
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Shawn Lynch, Photographer
New York | New York | USA | Posted: 7:01 PM on 09.22.09
->> This is why I no longer shoot for newspapers anymore. My salary isn't much higher (though it more than 30% than that job), but the job, the hours, the benefits, and so much more are way better. I even get 50 cents/mi (to stir up that old topic again).

I've got some magazines that I work with, but mainly I get by on my full time job and a handful of personal clients that really help to supplement the income. I don't really even shoot side projects for free anymore unless it's something I just have to shoot and would be great for the portfolio or publicity (i.e. marketing).

You can find better work than $12/hr. I know I did, and I know of a friend who recently also landed a dream photo job. I'm not trying to brag or anything. I just want to inspire you all by letting you know that you can make what you are worth, and oh my god does it feel good when you get paid what your worth. Not to mention that fact that you'll finally feel respected for what you do.

Brush up on your business skills. Learn about the art of negotiation. Value yourself or no one else ever will. And go get those extra dollars they're trying to keep off the table!
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David Minton, Student/Intern, Photographer
Humble | TX | USA | Posted: 1:40 PM on 09.25.09
->> An update:



I am the newest staff photographer at the Denton Record-Chronicle.
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Adam Vogler, Photographer, Photo Editor
Kansas City | Mo. | USA | Posted: 2:42 PM on 09.25.09
->> Way to go Dave! Congrats!
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David Manning, Photographer
Athens | GA | | Posted: 2:52 PM on 09.25.09
->> Congrats, good luck.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 3:10 PM on 09.25.09
->> Dave best of luck in the new job. Hope you get to make the most of it.
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Max Lashin, Photographer, Assistant
Fort Lauderdale | FL | United States | Posted: 3:57 PM on 09.25.09
->> Congrats David!
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Mitch Traphagen, Photographer
Victor | IA | USA | Posted: 4:20 PM on 09.25.09
->> First of all - congratulations David!

There is a lot of justified cynicism in this thread but there is another side to the coin. I once owned a small weekly - and that was what I paid my sole reporter (although her hours were better - and she didn't have much in the way of previous experience).

It wasn't because I didn't value her work - I did, very much so. It wasn't because I could get away with it. It was because I couldn't afford to pay her more. As it was, she made more than I did. And I worked much longer hours (the primary reason I closed the paper - along with wanting to actually have an income).

I definitely agree the greed out there is enormous - and that reporters and photographers are seriously suffering for it. But not everyone is guilty of that. If I could have paid her more, I most certainly would have. I couldn't.

I will agree that is horrible pay by most standards. Hopefully it will lead to more open doors for David, though. I know you can't eat or pay rent with self-satisfaction but his job will probably provide the opportunity for a lot of it - he now has the opportunity to impact a community in ways the people with much larger incomes can't. Hopefully for him, that will be worth something, too.

I wish I had a magic wand.

Congrats again, David.
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Robert Seale, Photographer
Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 5:15 PM on 09.25.09
->> I would have killed for a job at the Denton Record Chronicle when I got out of school. Great college town, great music scene, and close enough to Dallas, that you're not completely isolated.

Some great photographers have worked there....David Phillip, Eric Gay, and Allison Smith are a few that come to mind off the top of my head.

I don't know what the benefits situation is there, but that salary is not far off the mark for a first or second job in newspapers. It's much more than I made at my first one.

Bottom line - David scored with a great first job. If you're worried about the money, then you're probably not cut out to work in newspapers. The community in a town like that will embrace him, he'll get to know it well, and he'll hopefully make a bunch of great images before he moves on.

It certainly beats standing on the sidelines for free.
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Anthony Vasser, Photographer, Assistant
Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 7:24 PM on 09.27.09
->> Congrats Dave!
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William Guerro, Photographer
Galloway | NJ | USA | Posted: 1:55 PM on 09.28.09
->> $12.00 thats not bad to start, Congrats!

When I got hired as a Police Officer in 1986, I started at the Whopping Sum of $14,250 which broke down to the Big Dollar amount of $6.85 an hour only for a different kind of shooting! LOL
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Rick Yeatts, Photographer
Dallas | TX | USA | Posted: 2:28 PM on 09.28.09
->> I'm happy for David!! When I heard that Gary was moving on I pretty much knew he would land the gig. David has been the best assistant I ever had (4 plus years) and now he's gone. Vamoose, Arevaderche, Aloha, Auf Wiedersehen, Adios. Best of luck to you David. This is a small step for the big things to come. You have paid you dues and now it's your time. Believe me he has paid his dues.

David is the kind of guy you would trust with any of your clients and want him to marry your daughter. Give the guy a roll of gaffers tape, some tin foil and a safety pin and he will build you a camera to get you out of a jam.The DRC is lucky to have him, but they all ready know that - thats why they hired him.

One day you will see his resume come across your desk. When you do give me a call.
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 2:39 PM on 09.28.09
->> William,

That 6.86 is equivalent to about 13.30 now.

--Mark
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Codie McLachlan, Photographer
Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 6:24 PM on 09.28.09
->> Why did someone mark David's post inappropriate? Congratulations David!
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David Minton, Student/Intern, Photographer
Humble | TX | USA | Posted: 11:15 PM on 09.28.09
->> Huh. Why is there an inappropriate? Anyway...

Thanks everybody for all the comments. Especially Rick. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that I was able to do a good enough job and make enough of an impact in somebody's life that they'd have that to say about me.

This will be my first staff job at a paper and I'll be done with school in December, so I feel really lucky. I've been freelancing at the DRC since October of 2005 and for better or worse rarely turned down an assignment.

To clear up the details, yes this job includes benefits and mileage, and is not just pay. It is A.H. Belo after all. And the afternoon evening shift is exactly what I want to do. I'll be joining two other photographers, including the photo editor. It's about an 18,000 circulation daily in a city of 110,000 with three major high schools, 6 smaller area high schools, a 33,000 student D1 university (where me, the two other photographers, half the newspaper staff, and and a good portion of all the journalists in Texas went to school) and a smaller liberal arts university.

I start Tuesday the 6th.
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Thread Title: job offer
Thread Started By: Joe Cavaretta
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