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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Done Deal Three Images Licensed for 20K
Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 12:45 PM on 09.05.09
->> I posted this on APA & EP forum and from time to time I get emails from some of you asking me questions about and how some of you dont think that keeping your is really that important. Instead $500-$1,200 on hand beats anything else.

SO I am posting here too. Hope it can be of value to some.

Here it goes:

Folks a while back I photographed iconic golfer Gary Player for a travel magazine. Then a company, who owns the jet in the photo, wanted to use those images for an adv campaign.

I came here for some questions re images, Some of you were guessing Tiger Woods, and I got plenty of great answers. I put them, and my own thoughts, together in the blender and got great results.

I didnt want to talk much about it until the deal with this company was done and all was cleared with Mr. Player's people, my contract was signed , the $$$ wired to my bank and finally the images went to the company. Good solid business is the same weather in Los Angeles or Chattanooga, Tenn.

http://www.paganelliphotography.com/site/golfer-gary-player-the-black-knigh.../

Today all of that was finalized for 20K for ONLY two years English licensing
1.)one print ad + online use + collateral

In my contract I was also able to get my own
http://www.ManuelloPaganelli.com printed in the adv. Anything else, billboard, posters, tv, editorial, reprints is to be negotiated in the future. I am also able to use those images for editorial, including their adv campaign, for promotion on my web/book.
I took my time negotiating and knew the value of my work and my subject. Also the cost/time related on putting this shoot together all over again and the subject's busy schedule/travels, crew, catering etc that goes along.
The reality is that crew set up on this photo gig was around 2 hours and shooting time 45 minutes or so. So for those folks who think that they need to really make money by working longer THINK AGAIN.

MY feelings has always been that a great shoot if done in 5 seconds or 10 hrs has the same value. Just think of your 5k++ eyes laser surgeon two minutes job.

All of that on the side, these are stock images done for an editorial client, and when your keep your is money in the bank, yet I was able to license them for a value much higher than many of us even get while doing it the very first time for an adv agency will all their rights grabbing.
What I am trying to say is that if other folks can respect the value of our work why are many of us so blinded and daft to see it?

Why do we sell ourselves so POORLY or even feel sorry for the client when the numbers go above 2 or 3K?
We are all passionate & talented for our work yet when it comes to negotiating and dealing we are worse than a plumber with the charitable mind of a priest or nun. They are even some "top shooters" that dont know crap about properly licensing their own images. Much less openly talk about it.

This is what our does for us and by helping each others and working on our biz skills a 2k -5k a photo shoot or licensing request can turn into a 20K or even more.
Again thanks for the folks who kindly send me some great inputs let us all raised the bar when it comes to licensing our images or shooting new projects.

Best

Manuello Paganelli
Los Angeles California
 This post is:  Informative (13) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (1) |   Definitions

Preston Mack, Photographer
Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 12:58 PM on 09.05.09
->> I am gonna call you to negotiate all my deals!
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 1:04 PM on 09.05.09
->> Manuello, I think I marked your post Inappropriate simply by accident. I was trying to give you an Informative (though I may not have announced the exact figure I think you had some great points) but I had a few windows open and I'm trying to watch the Buckeye game...

So, for the record: Informative.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (1) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 1:06 PM on 09.05.09
->> ...oh and yes the confirmation window did pop up and I got trigger happy with the enter key. This is what I get when I try to edit images from two shoots while watching TV and fighting off a teething puppy.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (1) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Danny Munson, Photographer
San Dimas | Ca | United States | Posted: 1:07 PM on 09.05.09
->> Soooo that is better then photo credit? Congrats man, glad to see photos going for what they should.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 1:15 PM on 09.05.09
->> Brian dont worry none of that affects me at all. I could have 1,000 inappro and is all the same. When you know who you are , and your clients knows it too..then you are a happy & secure person.

My point here is for some of those folks out there who dont value the meaning of . Folks who now with this terrible economic could have been in a much better situation. Also as a former PJ it pisses me off to see so many uneducated PJs out there. There is not need for that. But part of the problem has been a root of problems which I dont have the time for that. I want PJs to be successful the same way I became. I started not knowing what ftops meant.. I worked for 2 yrs with a couple of hasselblad before I even knew how to load them.. blame my assistants for that. But one thing I learned well was the biz side thanks to ASMP and this "
always keep your " which my dear friend and mentor Ansel Adams taught me.

Still, thanks for your comment. But honestly, is not a problem for me.

Preton, call me and we will split it :)

Gotta run I am packing.. flying to the midwest..

Manu

Pag
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 1:25 PM on 09.05.09
->> I hear ya Manuello... I wouldn't exactly loose sleep over those things either... I just thought you had a great point about retaining copyrights and would hate to think I miss marked it.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 1:26 PM on 09.05.09
->> YIKES by former I Meant newspaper photographer. I am still a PJs when it calls for that and can wear other hats too.

Brian keep up with the puppy. Send us pix of him/her.the name too.

Danny ALL photos have values. A photo used is a photo pay for. All depends how we negotiated our deals.

The first step is DONT RUSH IT & DONT PANIC! They come to you for a reason. Not the other way around. We control the image and the situation. Why should we bent for them? Our images will make money for them. Usually more money for them than for us.

If there are anybody here from KC try to make it to my one night seminar
http://www.digitallabrador.com/ on sept 10th I will talk more on that there.


PAg
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Jeff Stanton, Photographer
Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 1:59 PM on 09.05.09
->> Manuello, well done, sir.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

David Harpe, Photographer
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 4:18 PM on 09.05.09
->> Yeah, but with microstock you could have sold that image 25,000 times and made a dollar each time :-).

(just kidding - good job!)
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 5:55 PM on 09.05.09
->> Pag thanks for the post and the lesson to all. As for whoever marked your post Inappropriate, while I don't normally advocate tossing people off the board for expressing their opinion, I'll express my opinion that it was a FIRST CLASS A_HOLE move.

One of the few pros on the board who is willing to come out and show not only US but every lurker on the planet the value of taking what we (he) say seriously and this is what he got in return. Granted that many of us will chip in to praise his choice I also want to blast the idiot who wasn't able to grasp the concept.

One more time....

Thank you Manuello
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (1) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (1) |   Definitions

Mike Strasinger, Photographer
Nashville | TN | USA | Posted: 6:25 PM on 09.05.09
->> Good for you.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 6:28 PM on 09.05.09
->> Brian my public apology, when I saw the inap I skimmed past your post.

Sorry that I missed your explanation.

~Eric
 This post is:  Informative (1) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 7:29 PM on 09.05.09
->> This is a great deal of what I joined Sportsshooter for, posts like this. I would like to see more of this in the future. It's great seeing amazing photography, but the majority of the people here are pros and business builders, and this satisfies both the breakdown and execution of an outstanding negotiation model AND a positive, inspiring outcome.

Next?
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 2:54 AM on 09.06.09
->> Indeed, Manuello, indeed. GREAT lesson for everyone, not only in photography but in any business. You are only worth what you think you are, for better or worse.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Vasiliy Baziuk, Photographer
Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 10:09 AM on 09.06.09
->> Manuello

great job! and a great post! and well as the images.

so what are you gonna do with the $20k?

(c) is a fantastic thing.... anytime i get paid for the use of my images i think back to all the photogs before me who made this possible for us to do so. in a way by charging for (c) it's our way of giving back to the industry and making it stronger.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Robert Caplin, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 2:15 PM on 09.09.09
->> Just bumping this thread back up because it illustrates the importance of retaining one's copyright to students and/or anyone new in the industry.

I've only ever been a freelancer in my career and as my archive has grown, I've found more and more opportunities to make extra chunks of money (sometimes small and sometimes big) from previously shot assignments....and all I have to do is email/ftp an image to the client.

I'd also like to mention the amazing service that
http://PhotoShelter.com provides to not only safely store my archives, but how easy PS makes my archives searchable, and the ease in which I can make clients galleries for which I can give them the ability to view and/or download the images in any size I specify. I can also upload my archives to multiple sub-agents around the world via simultaneous FTP using their bandwidth. The list of amazing features PS offers goes on and on.

Congrats Manuello on your sale....glad to see you're doing it right.

Robert
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Jason Brown, Photographer
Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 4:36 PM on 09.09.09
->> I want to preface this post that the intention is not to knock anyone - the magazines are doing their job, and the general public - including quite a few photographers - unfortunately all too often aren't aware of the value of their photos...

So thanks for the excellent post Manuello reaffirming the value of photos... it's good to hear, especially when things like this are so prevalent:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/09/09/minnesota.crasher.squirrel/index.html

Now this isn't to say they haven't been compensated (there is no indication either way, and sounds like they've had a pretty fun experience), but after reading the TOS of the "Your Shot" it's clear Nat'l Geographic pretty much can do whatever they want with the image (*note the couple didn't even get photo credit!!!*) For a little notoriety, looks like they unwittingly passed up a huge potential payday: inclusion in National Geographic, web pages and papers throughout the world, plus a bank advertisement, along with who knows what else... definitely unfortunate.
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Thread Title: Done Deal Three Images Licensed for 20K
Thread Started By: Manuello Paganelli
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