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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Kelby Shoot on the Sidelines Photo Contest
Max Lashin, Photographer, Assistant
Fort Lauderdale | FL | United States | Posted: 10:39 PM on 08.03.09
->> http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/shoot-on-the-sidelines

Just what everyone needs.. another un-needed person on the sidelines...
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
Washington | DC | US | Posted: 10:59 PM on 08.03.09
->> Not to mention, it's the worst written blog post in history...really poor edit/copy/paste job

D
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 12:50 AM on 08.04.09
->> Ugh --- Using a major college football game as a "Fantasy Camp" for an amateur photographer. That is such a bad idea and the school should not be involved in something like this. I would think the liability issues alone would be enough to keep them away from something as bad as this.

What excuse does the school SID have for denying a credential to a small hometown newspaper, high school newspaper or for that matter a freelance photographer who isn't on a specific assignment?

Obviously this is some kind of marketing deal, but to have two sets of rules governing credentials is a slap in the face of legit news organizations and working photographers.

I am not naive and know that colleges use the sidelines of football games as perks to their alums, celebs and major money donors.

But using the sidelines of a major college football game as a prize in a contest is just plain bad. The organizers of this contest ought to be embarrassed for the insult they have heaped on legit, working photographers everywhere.

'Nuff Said!
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 12:53 AM on 08.04.09
->> As a protest, I just threw a Scott Kelby book R.T. gave me as a gift into the dumpster...

Now ... 'Nuff Said!!!
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Nick Morris, Photographer
San Marcos | CA | United States | Posted: 1:06 AM on 08.04.09
->> Hey why doesn't someone here win the contest eat the fat steak dinner and then spend the day at shooting Disney World or something just to piss in their Cheerios? I know it says you have to be an amateur but I think there are enough talented togs here that can fly under their radar.
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 1:10 AM on 08.04.09
->> Without a doubt, the man is on top of Photoshop like few others. I just wish he would stick to that and stay off the field the rest of us have to work on.
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Matt Kartozian, Photographer
Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:20 AM on 08.04.09
->> Reading the details it seems you only get to shoot warmup not the actual game. Unless I missed something.
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 1:43 AM on 08.04.09
->> "Plus, the winner will enjoy a pre-game meal (full blown buffet) at the stadium in the press box that overlooks the field where you can mingle with other media folks, photographers and FSU personnel. Then it’s down to the sidelines with Scott and Mike to shoot from the same vantage point as the pros, in one of the most exciting and energy-charged stadiums in the country."
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Matt Kartozian, Photographer
Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 2:29 AM on 08.04.09
->> They have a couple of repeat paragraphs but that part is only on the second one. My mistake.
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David Harpe, Photographer
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 7:19 AM on 08.04.09
->> Grand prize: You get to be a poser. Nice.

Need some tee shirts/hats/buttons for the other shooters at the game:
"NOT A SCOTT KELBY CONTEST WINNER"

In bright neon green maybe?

Might have to. The winner will be carrying a 400, so they'll blend right in...
...until they bust out the tripod on the sidelines...
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David Manning, Photographer
Athens | GA | | Posted: 7:26 AM on 08.04.09
->> If there is any karma, it will pour that entire game....
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 7:57 AM on 08.04.09
->> nar⋅cis⋅sism  [nahr-suh-siz-em]
–noun
1. inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.


"...you’ll start your dream assignment by having dinner with Scott and Mike. Chances are it will be a big fat steak dinner where you’ll talk sports photography to your heart’s content."

You mean, if I win I ACTUALLY get to have dinner with someone who believes that having dinner with him and 'talk sports photography' with him is a PRIZE?! I think this contest may be more for SCOTT's ego than it is for the "lucky" recipient. He's clearly looking to have someone follow him around and hang on every word and view him as some sports photography God for a day. By the way... who IS this guy? Aside from a guy who posts photos and detailed descriptions of all of his gear on his website. Does the winner get permission to add him as a "Friend"on Facebook too?
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Mark Peters, Photographer
Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 8:06 AM on 08.04.09
->> "a) One (1) year usage rights and permissions to use, re-use, publish, and re-publish your winning image(s) you created, or reproduction hereof in color or otherwise, made through any and all media now or hereafter known for illustration, art, promotion, advertising, trade, or any other purpose whatsoever for future promotions of future Shoot on the Sidelines With Scott and Mike."

I understand this is boilerplate, but given that they are asking for sports photos to be submitted, I'd be curious to know how they are getting the releases needed for promotion, advertising and trade purposes.
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Max Lashin, Photographer, Assistant
Fort Lauderdale | FL | United States | Posted: 8:10 AM on 08.04.09
->> Here is Mike's "Guest Wednesday" Blog on Kelby's site..

http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2009/archives/4945

If you want a good laugh I'd read it. here are some quotes, "Contact your local paper’s photo editor. Give him/her your web site. Tell him/her that you would like submit an occasional photo for publication in the paper in exchange for photo credit. "

"I gave him the URL for my web site and told him if he would be so gracious as to give me a floor credential, I would provide him with a disc of images from the game for free."


The BEST quote of them all, "Be mindful of the other photographers around you. The worst thing you can do is inadvertently step in front of another photographer who is all set to fire the shutter and your head ends up in the shot. The fact that you didn’t mean to get in the way is no excuse. It’s up to you to look behind you to make sure you’re not in anyone’s way. The sidelines are a crowded place and many make their livelihood with their photos. "
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David Manning, Photographer
Athens | GA | | Posted: 8:25 AM on 08.04.09
->> Just an odd thought here.....

What are the odds of FSU yanking their credentials for this promotion/stunt? Isn't the NCAA trying to clean up the sidelines here?
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Jeff Brehm, Photographer, Photo Editor
Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 8:32 AM on 08.04.09
->> This is by far not the first such stunt like this. I've covered a couple of Big Ten football games at which the home team had a child on the sidelines holding his/her point-and-shoot because of similar contests. The potential liability alone makes me cringe, much less the addition of another body to a sideline on which I saw one of our colleagues suffer a broken leg when he was run over by a TV elevated platform because the crowd of spectators was three deep and he could not get out of the way.
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Ray Anderson, Photographer
San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 8:36 AM on 08.04.09
->> I think this is a great chance for an amateur to get a chance to photograph the WARM UPS.
I may be missing something but I see nothing wrong with giving an amateur a break.
I always welcome an amateur at any sporting event if he shows up with the right attitude.
Is this much different than sportshooter taking someone to Santa Anita to cover horse racing for the first time??
Lets wait and see the results before we cry foul.
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Lee Weissman, Photographer
XXXXX | NY | USA | Posted: 9:25 AM on 08.04.09
->> Not sure if you all are aware of the "Canon Shoot Like A Pro" contest that has a winner at every Jets game. The winner is given a camera to use during warm-ups and then is escorted off the field.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 10:08 AM on 08.04.09
->> The last time I shot at FSU the photographers weren't allowed in the press box with the other media to even pick up programs much less a meal. The meal for the photos was always downstairs. Sorta like at the Carolina Panthers games. The shooters are herded in a hallway and fed boxed sandwiches. These guys MUST really be big shots!
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Brian Dowling, Photographer
Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 11:14 AM on 08.04.09
->> Stanford auctioned off a credential 2-3 years ago and I remembered everyone panicked as it went for $1100 or so. I think we'll be ok, but it drives me nuts that so many people shooting at a college game are friends of "someone" and watch the majority of the game without their eye behind the viewfinder.
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Jamie Sabau, Photographer
Pickerington | OH | US | Posted: 11:23 AM on 08.04.09
->> You need to read a little further about this contest. First of all, it seems it was Mike who suggested this contest and the prize of sideline access to Scott according to Mike's blog.

Second of all, Mike's blog indicates that he works for the FSU Sports Info Department so I'm sure he has a special relationship with them and was able to facilitate such a prize.

Lastly, the prize initially was to be Mike's assistant on the sidelines. Perhaps it evolved into being a shooter.

I don't agree with this type of prize either. As Robert indicated it is an insult to working pros. However, it was indeed a working pro who came up with the idea and perhaps negotiated with his employer to allow an amateur on the sidelines.

At least they picked the game against Jacksonville State. I mean honestly, who's going to be at that game? ;-)
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 11:46 AM on 08.04.09
->> Jamie,

You're assuming this guy Mike is a "working pro".

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mike-olivella/9/6b9/486
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Jamie Sabau, Photographer
Pickerington | OH | US | Posted: 11:51 AM on 08.04.09
->> Brian,

Fair enough. I stand corrected.
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Jack Howard, Photographer, Photo Editor
Central Jersey | NJ | USA | Posted: 11:56 AM on 08.04.09
->> In the interest of fairness this is the blog that Kelby's blog links to: http://baselineshots.blogspot.com/ so let's all now abandon that LinkedIn rabbit hole.
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 12:01 PM on 08.04.09
->> Jack,

What's wrong with the Linkdein link? I received and email this morning from someone who knows Mike who advised me he's an attorney... not that that makes him a bad person but we should have all of the facts. That's all.

Respectfully,

-Blanco
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 12:20 PM on 08.04.09
->> Oh, and Jack, if you go to his resume on his website you'll find a reference to the fact that he is, indeed, and attorney. Again, that doesn't mean he's a bad person, that he's doing anything wrong, or that he's not a strong shooter. He may very well be a wonderful person employing sound business practices. BUT, IF this is a case where someone is shooting for the school for free (and I DO NOT KNOW THAT HE IS) and then inviting more people along to shoot for free well, maybe, I'm just getting a bit tired of seeing my friends laid off by people who buy their way into the industry just to give away their work.

I'm not even talking about this guy Mike anymore, but rather just in general. I was laid off a few months ago from my staff position and I can tell you that a few months before I was laid off a VERY NICE and WELL MEANING local president of a big company in my town approached one of our editors and offered to shoot the Buccaneers' games for free for my paper so that they "wouldn't have to waste the resource of sending Brian anymore." (Not an exact quote but close). My editor (our business editor) thought it was a wonderful idea until I explained that my wife and I actually like to pay our bills. Again, the guy is super nice and was not intentionally trying to hurt me or the industry as a whole but these are the types of things that we need to educate hobbyists about.
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Jack Howard, Photographer, Photo Editor
Central Jersey | NJ | USA | Posted: 12:32 PM on 08.04.09
->> Brian: there's nothing wrong with that fact...it's just not the whole story.

It kind of sang out to me like one of those movie review quotes like this:

"...Imaginative...cinematography" -- The Bestest Newspaper ever.

When the whole quote is something like this:

"In the hands of a more 'imaginative' and adept screenwriter, and with much more inspired 'cinematography,' this movie might be worthy of two stars, but as it stands now, you're better off getting stuck in a carwash for two hours than sitting through this trainwreck of a romantic comedy done horribly, horribly wrong."

There are sports photographers on this site who have sports portfolio sites and other sites for their wedding business without a lot of crossover. Would a link to a wedding-centric site be fair criterion for disdaining someone's purported or implied lack of sports photography experience or professionalism?

And for the record, there are many well-respected members of this board with non-photographic day jobs. Personally, I think getting to be an assistant a silly prize, but again, realize that for many, pro photography is a dream job. When was the last time you saw a contest where the prize was the chance to be a toll collector, or insurance underwriter for a day?

~~~~~~~~~

Now, let the message boards wolfpack character assassination continue. Pardon the interruption. Carry on.
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 12:46 PM on 08.04.09
->> And now, the solicitation is on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdBK0G5Ee9o
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David Manning, Photographer
Athens | GA | | Posted: 12:49 PM on 08.04.09
->> So since its being co-sponsored by the FSU Athletics Photographer, this is being endorsed by the FSU Athletic department?

I talked with a friend in an SID department at a BSC school and he was appalled by the promotion/contest.
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Max Lashin, Photographer, Assistant
Fort Lauderdale | FL | United States | Posted: 1:03 PM on 08.04.09
->> Jack,

I think being a assistant and a photographer are different things... This contest is about being able to be a photographer on the sidelines (example, winner gets a 400mm to personally shoot with). That means that this person will be another body on the sidelines shooting without a assignment. Its not a matter of professionalism or experience with the contest, for all we know the winner may be a amazing photog but being a amazing photographer doesnt mean you have the right to be on a sideline. The only time you may be granted that right is when you are on assignment from a media source covering the game.
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Max Lashin, Photographer, Assistant
Fort Lauderdale | FL | United States | Posted: 1:05 PM on 08.04.09
->> I also wonder if FSU athletics is endorsing this. I know the PR people and I really just cant imagine the SID's up there being ok with this...
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Max Lashin, Photographer, Assistant
Fort Lauderdale | FL | United States | Posted: 1:23 PM on 08.04.09
->> I take back my last post...

"Auction: Behind-The-Scenes At Florida State Football Media Day" from FSU athletic..

http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/080309aab.html

wow I am glad I got out of Tallahassee before it was too late
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John Howley, Photographer
Circleville | OH | USA | Posted: 1:35 PM on 08.04.09
->> I could understand people being upset if the winner was shooting the actual game, but from what I read (and others have posted as well) the 'winner' only shoots warmups. Then he'll go upstairs, eat his hot dogs, read his free program and watch the game from one of the 50 unused seats in the press box thinking how cool it was to be on the field and use a 400mm to take shots of the backup punter warming up.

It seems like there are about 200 extra people on the sideline at just about every college or pro football game taking pictures and standing around, and then, before the game starts, they're all ushered off the field. Somebody's got to do a better job convincing me how this contest is all that different.
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 1:47 PM on 08.04.09
->> While I don't agree in principle, I'd rather have Scott Kelby and contest winner shooting BESIDE be rather than the sound dish or cable puller standing in FRONT of me anyday.
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Harvey Dunn, Photographer
Southlake (Dallas) | TX | USA | Posted: 2:13 PM on 08.04.09
->> FWIW, here's a link to Mike Olivella's resume:

http://www.baselineshots.com/resume.html
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Bob Ford, Photographer
Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 2:45 PM on 08.04.09
->> Some people aren't reading the entire link and assuming it's just warm ups. From Kelby's blog...

"Then on game day, Sept. 12, the winner will accompany Scott and Mike to the pre-game warm up at Florida State’s Doak Campbell Stadium where you’ll shoot the team’s warm up on the field at the 50-yard line right next to FSU Seminole coach Bobby Bowden .

Plus, the winner will enjoy a pre-game meal (full blown buffet) at the stadium in the press box that overlooks the field where you can mingle with other media folks, photographers and FSU personnel. Then it’s down to the sidelines with Scott and Mike to shoot from the same vantage point as the pros, in one of the most exciting and energy-charged stadiums in the country."

So, its warm ups, then lunch, then the GAME.
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Thomas Ciszek, Photographer
Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 2:46 PM on 08.04.09
->> His equipment sure puts mine to shame...
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Dave Weaver, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 2:49 PM on 08.04.09
->> JUST ANNOUNCED--OMAHA, NE--Freelance Photographer Dave Weaver has announced the “Come do Dave’s Job for Free” Contest. The winners will get a once in a lifetime chance to shoot Dave’s assignments, Do their best to get Dave’s clients to pay their bill’s, and the opportunity to tell dave how great he is. The winner will also get an all expense paid breakfast at McDonalds, (one item only not to exceed $3.00), before being invited to come back to Dave’s house and mow Dave’s lawn. Doesn't that sound great.
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Thomas Ciszek, Photographer
Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 2:50 PM on 08.04.09
->> Olivella's that is...
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 2:53 PM on 08.04.09
->> Thomas, nothing like knowing a guy owns a super clamp right ?

I mean that little detail in an equipment list surely is going to be the factor that is going to result in a client hiring or not hiring you.

To be serious for a moment, it does look like Mike is a really talented shooter, and I think this contest winner would be in a position to really learn a great deal from him. While others might not want to see the winner there, I can say I do hope its someone who really will try to make the most of the chance and learn rather than someone who just wins and thinks its cool to be on the sidelines (which I'm sure it will be)
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Dave Doonan, Photographer
Kingston | TN | USA | Posted: 2:54 PM on 08.04.09
->> "So, its warm ups, then lunch, then the GAME."
Oh we're sorry, that makes it okay.
(Say it sarcastically)
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Patrick Meredith, Photographer, Assistant
Austin | TX | USA | Posted: 2:58 PM on 08.04.09
->> Most of you are just jealous because you don't qualify to enter.



































.Grin. 8)
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John Howley, Photographer
Circleville | OH | USA | Posted: 3:05 PM on 08.04.09
->> I still don't think you're shooting the game, but following Bob's post I did some more clicking and found this on the Flickr site

- The next morning, on September 12th, you will go with them to an FSU College Football game at Doak Campbell Stadium with full media credentials where you will shoot the warm up from the sidelines right along with Scott & Mike! In front of roughly 82,000 rabid football fans!

- During the game itself, you'll spend most of your time as Mike's assistant. Here's where you will get first-hand experience of what it's like being a professional sports photographer! You get to experience the game from the sidelines like a real pro sports shooter and go home with your memory cards packed full from the whirlwind "assignment." Plus, you'll probably gain a couple pounds because that full media pass means that you'll have access to the really sweet buffet set up folks don't normally talk about.

So you get to shoot warmups and then spend most of the game carrying the guy's extra bodies and lenses around. Probably when FSU is up by about four or five scores, scrubs are coming in and a lot of the working photogs have left the sideline to transmit, this winner will get his camera back out.
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Robert Scheer, Photographer
Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 3:08 PM on 08.04.09
->> I agree with Ray Anderson. I don't see what the big deal is. So, it's an extra body down there, it's not like we're navigating a minefield or anything. It'll tick some folks off, but much of the attitude in this thread smacks of elitism.

Personally, I like seeing newer photographers down "in the trenches" getting turned on by photography. He or she will go, get a couple of lucky snaps (along with a bazillion crappy ones), grin all day long, then go home and tell their buddies how cool being a sports photographer is, and how it's harder than it looks.
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Steven Ickes, Photographer
Mechanicsburg | PA | USA | Posted: 3:30 PM on 08.04.09
->> Just read this on Mike Olivella's web site Baselineshots.com . . . "The Big Kahuna Kelb-ster has contacted me..."

That's just downright blasphemous!!! Calling Scott Kelby, sorry, I mean "Kelb-ster", the "Big Kahuna"?!!? Is nothing sacred to these guys?
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 3:33 PM on 08.04.09
->> Robert does have a pretty good point. I've seen so many ads from people willing to work as assistants, often for free even, just to gain experience or experience a game.

Does it make a difference if Mike's "assistant" for the day is a contest winner rather than some young photographer who jumped at the chance to be an assistant ?

Ideally this person is someone who's at least interested in photography instead of simply being a wealthy alum or famous celeb etc.

In the overall scheme of things, one contest winner on the sidelines would be the least of my worries. I'm sure under Mike's wing they will stay out of the way as well.

Heck, I'd take a whole busload of contest winners over just a handful of videographers any day! I don't mean to unfairly stereotype video shooters as a whole, but there sure are a bunch of really rude ones who think they have more right to be there than any of us still shooters and who will step right in front of you without thinking twice.

Same goes for the sound dish guys or cable pullers etc. They are "network" and the rest of us are garbage. We stay behind the lines they freely walk in front of and don't try in the least to even kneel down. Nope they have that very difficult job of walking behind someone holding a cable.

On a sidenote, I've always wondered how much training that takes? Do you have to go to cable puller school for 6 months or something ? Do they just get people off the street ? Maybe they see someoen washing their car and think "Hey, I like how that guy handles a garden hose...."

I've got to wonder because so many of them are just horrible at it, always getting the cable wrapped around my feet or knocking over the corner pylon etc.

So I guess everyone is free to bycott FSU football for the season, throw out Scott Kelby books, maybe even refuse to use Photoshop ever again, but unless said contest winner somehow steps in front of your game winning shot that would of been an SI doubletruck, does this one person really make that big of difference in your life ?
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Jack Howard, Photographer, Photo Editor
Central Jersey | NJ | USA | Posted: 3:48 PM on 08.04.09
->> .





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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before clicking "huh" use the Google.
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Jamie Sabau, Photographer
Pickerington | OH | US | Posted: 3:51 PM on 08.04.09
->> Speaking of cable pullers...a couple of seasons ago I got into it with a cable puller after I accidentally stepped on his cable as he was trying to pull it (hence, the name cable puller). Anyhow, after he was done spewing at me (literally-there was spit coming out of his mouth he was so angry) I told him I had a right to be on the sidelines too as I was working as well. His last retort as he leaned in and got right in my face was, "I'm making $75 today! How much are YOU making?!" I just chuckled and walked away. How could I ruin his day? He was so proud to be making $75 pulling a cable on the sidelines of a college football game.
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Chris Parent, Student/Intern, Photographer
Harahan | LA | United States | Posted: 5:16 PM on 08.04.09
->> I wonder if college students qualify? It would be a great chance for a college student from a small college without a great football team.
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David Harpe, Photographer
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 5:43 PM on 08.04.09
->> Warmups only?

From the OP link:
"Then it’s down to the sidelines with Scott and Mike to shoot from the same vantage point as the pros, in one of the most exciting and energy-charged stadiums in the country.

Plus, the winner will get even closer to the action, because we’ve rented them “pro glass;” a 400mm f/2.8 lens from LensPro To Go ."

Note the "same vantage point as the pros" comment. To me, it seems like the winner does shoot the game - with a 400/2.8.
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