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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Grace Chiu Payment Method
Ron Bernardo, Photographer
Hamilton | ON | Canada | Posted: 7:05 AM on 07.09.09
->> I am wondering if anyone here have worked for "GraceClick" or Grace Chiu Gymnastics Photos?

Link,
http://www.graceclick.ca/photos

Three of us worked for her over a month ago, but she never contacted us back for payment. Even when we repeatedly contacted her by email, text messages and facebook.

Has anyone here experienced her payment method and how long it took to get paid?
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Ingelbert Lievaart II, Photographer
Hamilton | ON | Canada | Posted: 8:57 AM on 07.09.09
->> I am also still waiting and I believe two other photogs besides the 3 you mentioned are also still waiting to hear from her. She owes me well over $1000 which I counted on to pay my rent last month. She hasn't answered my emails or phone calls since the gig. I consider her a friend and the shoot was fun but we all did some long hours. I'm assuming (hoping) she's been very busy and hasn't had a chance to get back to us. I'm glad you posted this because she's a member here. I have been having this problem with other "friends/clients" I've shot for in the past 6 months. They promise you pay after the gig and then have an excuse not to pay you for a week or so because sales were slow and the week turns in to months.

I'm getting very tired of not getting paid and for the first time in 25 years I am looking for another career before I literally and up on the street. By the way, the "friggen" Sudbury Star still owes me for a front page shot from last June and they are not getting back to me either 3 invoices later, so it's not just limited to small time clients!

Wow, I needed a morning rant! Thanks Ron

Cheers,
Ing
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Richard Wolowicz, Photographer
Brossard | QC | Canada | Posted: 11:49 AM on 07.09.09
->> No offense but, by posting this out in a public forum for others to read might hamper future work from them as well as potential new clients. I'm with you ... I hate being paid late but, there are reasons behind everything. Could be that her clients are slow in paying, maybe she's overseas or maybe other personal matters. It's a ripple down effect.

Now if he/she/client had to you to "F OFF ... I ain't paying" then this kind of post is called for. 30 days isn't that bad.

My $0.02
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Ingelbert Lievaart II, Photographer
Hamilton | ON | Canada | Posted: 12:40 PM on 07.09.09
->> There are a few photographers involved with this. 3 have contacted me with concerns and I keep saying she'll come around but not answering phonecalls, email or letters is not making her very popular. Posting it to a public forum will warn other shooters not to work for her. A few positive replies is what we are hoping for so we know there's a chance we'll get paid. When the situation is resolved we will happily report and recommend her again. I might add that all the photographers who shot for her were led to believe they would be paid at the Gig. As far as 30 days, not bad, that's pretty well standard. In the Sudbury Star's case 1 year is ridiculous! They even used the shot again in a follow up story. Funny how the editor can return your emails before using the photo but ignores you after. I think calling out situations like this is necessary in a forum like SportsShooter so both freelancers and those that hire them can learn from the experience.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 1:06 PM on 07.09.09
->> I have to agree with Ingelbert.

There aren't many people willing to "out" non paying contractors or publications for fear of being blacklisted in the future. And yet it is that very fear that allows these 'employers' to continue to abuse the shooters that work for them.

My shooters get paid the day of the event and in one case the day before the event as I wouldn't be on-site to pay him that day.
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 7:46 PM on 07.09.09
->> Any shooters I hire get paid on the day of the shoot. If I were working for an event company, I would insist on those terms.
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Ron Bernardo, Photographer
Hamilton | ON | Canada | Posted: 11:18 PM on 07.09.09
->> I believe Grace Chiu is a member of SS.Com and I hope she will contact us soon and we will get paid.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 1:17 AM on 07.10.09
->> I ain't got no dog in this fight but I'm gonna side with Eric. Don't know Grace Chui. Would like to think there is some "misunderstanding" here...but I have to say after the posts here you gotta wonder. Bear with me here before you give me a "Huh". Calling someone out for a photo you think might have been manipulated here on the SS message board is one thing. Calling someone out BEFORE contacting them about payment is another. But to have several folks want to know where payment is after repeatedly attempting to contact the person who hired them AND not receiving an answer is part of what the whole "social networking" of SS is about. We NEED to warn one another on unscrupulous business practices. Let's face it, there are rotten apples in every single facet of our lives, we KNOW there are bad seeds in photography. We need to be vigilant. Just saying.
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Tom Theobald, Photographer
La Mesa | CA | USA | Posted: 4:16 PM on 07.10.09
->> I know Grace. Over many years, at international championships (Anaheim, Aarhus, Stuttgart, Patras) we are many times side by side. Grace is quiet, polite, conscientious and knows her photographic moments. In gymnastics (rhythmic & artistic) the hours are long and you get to know every colleague very well. Some years Grace will publish her upcoming events schedule... I travel alot, am all over the map, but whew--> Canada, USA and worldwide, Grace is unbelievable! Can't say for sure, but knowing Grace, this is probably what's up, ie. Grace is traveling...

I have had bitter experiences and totally understand all posts here. Been there. You work event photog for friends and colleagues and near all pay you same day worked (Ben Chen in LA, Robb Hughes in Dallas). I won't "out" the bad boy experiences that happen to me... But mates, it happens that some colleagues don't pay you promptly. Once in Europe it took 2-years to get paid and it was thousands of euros. Whew, I was finally paid. When he did pay, the colleague asked me about an event a few weeks away. Learned my lesson and told him--> you have to pay upfront from now on. He understood, but we didn't work together again.

If it's a big dollars, euros deal and there's any hint there maybe a problem with friends you know or don't know well...GET AN AGREEMENT IN WRITING BEFOREHAND (contract, email, sms whatever) . I can't emphasize this point enough. Especially this goes for selling cameras and lenses to colleagues. To give an example of not learning this lesson, I am still in a deal for debts and big glass undelivered, yet already paid for and it's been 3-4years and over $3000. Friends know I am not going to take them to court...but still, it's ok to get some kind of electronic record between you beforehand. So you can at least remind and hound them to no end, what they agreed to.

When these deals start to go bad (and a few will), I try to negotiate out solutions. Sold a 200mm/1.8 to an unnamed SS member and friend...and we worked out a 6-month payment schedule and all was cool. You have to be flexible. Just my 2-cents and hope this helps, -T
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Michael Proebsting, Photographer
Barrington | IL | USA | Posted: 4:31 PM on 07.10.09
->> I don't know any of the parties involved in this but a big part of being in business is communications.

If what is alleged is true, "traveling" is no excuse for well over a month to not get back to someone with a 30 second phone call, or a one line email especially when money is owed to that person or persons.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 5:13 PM on 07.10.09
->> Tom are you saying that you paid someone $3k for a lens 3-4 YEARS ago and are still waiting for it? There are words for that, patience, kindness, friend isn't on that list.

Business is business, whether with friend or some multi-billion dollar (euro) entity. Delaying payment isn't an oversight it is a practice that allows the procrastinator to use YOUR (MY) money interest free for as long as possible before having to pay legal fees.

As far as 'traveling' I'm not buying that line either. I'll bet that credit cards, mortgages, and other creditors that WILL tack on fees or raise rates are getting THEIR invoices paid.
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Kevin Seale, Photographer
Crawfordsville | IN | United States | Posted: 5:22 PM on 07.10.09
->> Tom, you should get your lens soon. The seven other people Eric Swist sold it to are about done using it.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (9) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:04 PM on 07.10.09
->> Tom, you have to be the most forgiving soul I've ever seen. You paid $3000 for a lens four years ago and haven't received it yet? Wow! Just WOW!!!!! And again I concur with the wisdom of the esteemed Mr. Canha. Traveling? In this day and age why is traveling an excuse? Geez, I was in the mountains of Afghanistan, no electricity within 100 clicks and I STILL was able to send and receive email. That's a total cop out my man.
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Max Lashin, Photographer, Photo Editor
Fort Lauderdale | FL | United States | Posted: 12:52 AM on 07.11.09
->> I bet your lens is in Nigeria. While you're out there, will you pick up my winning lottery check of 134 million?
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Tom Theobald, Photographer
La Mesa | CA | USA | Posted: 1:40 AM on 07.11.09
->> Eric, Chuck et al
So sorry for OT, but is helping me... Re lens, was max complicated. Paid for lens, colleague drops it before delivery. Then he had to sue repair shop for bad/incomplete repair (lens became unusable). Meanwhile I'm out $$$. Said unnamed colleague earlier in my career, really helped with professional referrals. So there's the quandary. But still he owes me...
Eric, as always you are absolutely right on correct. Definition of "friend" is totally being tested. (OT again, thanks Eric for your spot on private advice several months ago. You really helped me steer through that vendor deal).
Agree Chuck, no excuse at all these days for unanswered emails and phone calls.
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Thread Title: Grace Chiu Payment Method
Thread Started By: Ron Bernardo
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