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Using a peanut to trigger a remote camera?
Nathan Welton, Photographer
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Denver | CO | | Posted: 10:59 AM on 02.11.09 |
| ->> Is it possible to jury-rig such a thing? I ask because I have an Ikelite housing that's clear and I want to take pictures of trout. I don't have the desire to sit around in a 38 degree river waiting for the fish to get used to me, so what I'd like to do is put the camera in the river with a fisheye set to infinity and leave it there, then hang out on the bank until the fish come back, and then blast the housing with a speedlight. I think there's enough space in the housing to fit the corded remote plug into the camera. Wondering if there's a way to solder up a peanut into the remote's cord. Any ideas? |
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Tom Knier, Photographer
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Lancaster | PA | USA | Posted: 11:15 AM on 02.11.09 |
| ->> Remember, a lot of people are allergic to peanuts. |
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Dave Londres, Photographer
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Utica | NY | USA | Posted: 12:04 PM on 02.11.09 |
| ->> If you put a pocketwizard on a hot shoe slave it will work the same as if you press the test button and fire a remote camera on another wizard, maybe even on the same unit, not sure about that though. I've used an Ikelite housing before and there wasn't much room in there to cram a wizard. Maybe a smaller cactus remote would work the same way. |
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Bob Ford, Photographer
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Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 12:10 PM on 02.11.09 |
| ->> Dave, in my experience Pocket Wizards don't work underwater. Even a few inches below the surface blocked the signal. |
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Chad Ryan, Photographer, Assistant
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Fort Wayne | IN | USA | Posted: 12:24 PM on 02.11.09 |
->> Nathan,
In theory your system with a peanut slave should work. Essentially all you need is a device that closes the circuit on your release cord to fire the camera. The problem comes with putting the rig under water.
I tried a similar set up with a speedlight and a peanut slave positioned in a clear water-tight box in about 5 feet of water for a portrait of a swimmer. I couldn't get the flash to fire at all when it was under, even shooting 400 WS strobes directed straight at the box. It worked like a charm on the surface, but at 5 feet it never fired once. This was in a swimming pool and not in a trout stream.
I rigged the box to float at about a 3-foot depth and still no flash. My guess, and I'm no physicist, is the water disperses the light so much even at that shallow depth that its intensity when it hits the peanut just isn't enough to make it pop.
You could try to find a water-tight low voltage electrical connector and get yourself some weighted waterproof cable then string it through the water to your shooting position, but since I don't have an Ikelite housing I don't know if you can modify it to accept that kind of set up. |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 1:06 PM on 02.11.09 |
->> Salmonella Enterocolitis is dangerous even to those without peanut allergies.
Water bends light very dramatically, and if the slave eye is tuned more to the Infrared, it won't work at all because the water bends IR the most severely.
Better to hardwire. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 2:29 PM on 02.11.09 |
->> It can work if you can get the flashhead down into the water closer to the camera. Shooting the flash into the water from above scatters the light too much to be an effective signal.
You can actually rig up a little system where you can weight a casing enough to float with it half submerged, with the flashhead pointing downwards in the bottom, and with a PW in the top.
The PW signal as stated wont go thorough more than an inch of water, if that, so you need to keep that antena above the surface.
I actually rigged this up with an empty 2 liter soda bottle. Added some steel shot to the bottle, stuck a 580ex in there and used a hot shot to PW connector. Obviously not totally waterproof as I just gaffers taped the top on but its not supposed to get submerged. Just float on the surface and let me trigger the camera below.
Actually worked but it was just with about 5 feet of water so its worth a try as it wont cost you anything assuming you've got a PW and a speedlight already.
Its of course better to hardwire with a bulkhead, but since those cables and connectors from SPL and others makers are always hundreds of feet long, and hundreds of dollars, and underwater photography isnt something I do much as I live in Ohio, I was happy to just cut up a $.99 soda bottle.
I think for your needs in a stream it should work as well, though do note that I tested in an indoor pool, rather than an outdoor stream so I had less of an issue with ambient light coming through the water. |
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Jesse Hutcheson, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Newport News | va | United States | Posted: 2:32 PM on 02.11.09 |
| ->> Does the peanut more less work like a tiny pocketwizard? |
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Ron Manfredi, Photographer
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Merrick (Long Island) | NY | | Posted: 2:42 PM on 02.11.09 |
->> Jesse,
The peanut is an optical slave unit, used to fire remote strobes when it "sees" a strobe fire. "Peanut" because it is small. Nathan is trying to adapt one to trigger the camera instead of a flash unit; an interesting idea, but apparently the refractive and UV properties of the water are causing problems. I guess a radio type remote will not fit in the housing with the camera.
The problem with an optical slave is that it will trigger on ANY flash, not just the photographer's. They would weak havok if a photog. used them as remotes at a wedding; any guest's camera flash would set it off. They are convenient for some applications, and not very expensive, but I am sure you will find most here use some kind of radio remote trigger.
see:
http://www.adorama.com/WNPN1.html?searchinfo=peanut%20slave&item_no=3
Ron |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 4:35 PM on 02.11.09 |
->> Ron/Jesse, its not an issue that a radio slave won't fit into the camera housing but rather that radio signals can't travel through water. Maybe a very powerful radio signal could, but a PW transmitter wont' even be able to fire a receiver a few inches under the surface.
It can be a fun way with mess with the Uncle Harry's at a wedding though if you don't plug your PW's into the strobes as use them optically as they take a snap with their P&S and get a blown out white image because their little flash set off the strobe LOL. Realistically though yes its a nightmare because your lights are always recycling when you want to shoot because someone just set them off.
When your the only shooter though in a closed location optical slaves in strobes are a pretty quick and easy way to work. Plus its far cheaper than buying a PW for each and every light. Just avoid using ETTL as the preflashes can mess with thes slaves, unless you get a slave that can ignore the first trigger.
Ebay has a lot low cost radio triggers though that don't cost much more than optical slaves and would prove more useful overall as you dont have to worry about other peoples flash. Downside is they have very limited range. |
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Nathan Welton, Photographer
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Denver | CO | | Posted: 4:46 PM on 02.11.09 |
->> yeah, i have PWs but they radio waves don't travel under water and they wouldn't fit in the housing anyway. the peanuts are small.
anyway, good thinking about the water dispersion. hadn't thought of that! it's hard to imagine but it makes sense. my ikelite ds125 strobe has a hard time throwing light that far underwater if i'm shooting wide.
but the idea of sticking a PW on the surface, attached by cable to a submerged strobe pointing directly thru the case at the peanut in the housing...
but i'm still a little curious about how peanuts work, since they're not battery operated, and how i could put together the peanut and the pc cable.
man. the things we go through, huh? |
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Nathan Welton, Photographer
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Denver | CO | | Posted: 4:49 PM on 02.11.09 |
->> and while we're at it...
i'd love to get a shot of garden eels... anyone here a scuba diver? but they're damn near impossible to shoot because as soon as you approach, they disappear. i want to put my camera right in front of a garden eel colony, or even in the middle of it, and then swim away and let it sit there for a few minutes until the eels come out of their holes. and then i want the camera to take a picture. the only way i can envision doing this is plugging one of those timer remotes into the side of the camera, and then figuring out where to put it in the housing. unless there are any better ideas?
not related to shooting sports, but all these random hacks wind up being cross-platform. |
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Daniel Putz, Photographer
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Jefferson | MD | USA | Posted: 5:45 PM on 02.11.09 |
| ->> I think using a timer remote would be really useful, but hit-or-miss. If you end up with a lot of activity, you'd get a nice timelapse though! |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 6:20 PM on 02.11.09 |
->> Nathan, maybe not "better" in a financial sense, but Nikon's like the D300, D700 and D3 have interval timer features programed into the camera. That would be your best bet.
I know Canon has the TC80N wired remote which can do some interval functions but no clue how you'd fit that into the Ikelite case, doubt it would be possible.
Probably in your case your best bet would be to use the wired release bulkhead cable for the trigger grips and get an extension made for that cable. They aren't cheap but cheaper than buying a D700 and new housing. Then you could just out that weighted cable and trigger the camera at a safe distance. No doubt would lead to better shots as interval shooting any live subject is such a hit or miss affaird. |
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Dave Londres, Photographer
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Utica | NY | USA | Posted: 7:58 PM on 02.11.09 |
| ->> Bob, I'm aware of the wizards not working underwater, I found that out the hard way. I was thinking of using it as a pass-through, without the splicing of the peanut with the cable release. I'm not sure if a peanut would have enough juice to set off the camera through the cable release port, but using the batteries in the wizard you could create a remote that fired when it saw a strobe, above water at least. |
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Karsten Moran, Photographer, Photo Editor
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New York | NY | United States of America | Posted: 9:44 PM on 02.11.09 |
->> I was looking into doing something similar recently at a swimming event.
The closest I came to a solution was trying to squeeze a zigview s2 into my ike housing. But I found that even with extensive careful finagle-ing, it didn't quite fit. If you were dedicated, and had the time and *cash, I suppose you might be able to take apart the unit and jam it into the housing. Then you could use the built-in motion sensor.
For me, in the end, I decided to cut my losses and forgo the in-water shots.
For you, if you really want that shot, i'd recommend waders and thermals. :) |
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Robert Benson, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 10:06 PM on 02.11.09 |
->> My camera radio trigger, which has a 20 mile range (yeah, 20 miles), will trigger cameras at depths up to about 18 inches.
read about it here:
http://robertbenson.com/blog/archives/860
Your slave might work if its darkish out, but the light from the triggering flash will affect the exposure. |
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Dave Londres, Photographer
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Utica | NY | USA | Posted: 11:35 PM on 02.11.09 |
| ->> The light from the flash shouldn't affect the exposure, the shutter has a lag much longer than the duration of the flash. If it is triggered by a waterproof strobe underwater, the light has a chance at getting to the housing and tripping the shutter. |
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Chris Peterson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbia Falls | MT | USA | Posted: 10:04 AM on 02.12.09 |
->> Nathan, if you're shooting a Nikon, why not just set the Intervalometer to take a shot every 5 seconds or so over the course of several minutes or hours? Solves the problem of having to mess with a remote...
Do Canons have built-in intervalometers? |
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Nathan Welton, Photographer
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Denver | CO | | Posted: 4:04 PM on 02.12.09 |
| ->> no, unfortunately they don't. i'm shooting a 5d. |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 4:33 PM on 02.12.09 |
->> "no, unfortunately they don't"
No intervalometer?
Get a D700 to replace the 5D!
Or simply hard wire the 5D. |
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Fredrik Naumann, Photographer
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Oslo | Oslo | Norway | Posted: 6:56 PM on 02.12.09 |
->> From my reading on the subject I think you are most likely to succeed using a cable release. It is fairly common in diving to use a "polecam" to catch the sort of stuff you describe. Here is one (expensive) example: http://www.seacamusa.com/polecam-instructions.shtml
Not all housings come with the required bulkehad etc, but if you head over to wetpixel.com , search "polecam" or browse the DIY section there are plenty of examples how to do this. |
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Nathan Welton, Photographer
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Denver | CO | | Posted: 11:49 PM on 02.12.09 |
| ->> okay, let me ask another question while we're still on the topic of using peanuts as triggers, if possible. i'd like to have a peanut trigger a pocketwizard. i want to do half over/half under shots in caves and dark places. i will use the submersible strobe to illuminate the water, and have a peanut attached to a PW floating in a bag on the surface. then i want the PW to trigger other PWs to illuminate the subject as well as the cave itself. i tried plugging my peanut into a hot shoe attached to a PW and hitting it with a flash to no avail. do i need to do something special to make it work or is this just impossible due to different signal strengths? |
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Dave Londres, Photographer
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Utica | NY | USA | Posted: 12:14 AM on 02.13.09 |
| ->> I've used this kind of slave (http://tinyurl.com/dmhghn) and it sets off the wizard. What kind of peanut and shoe are you using? |
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