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Photographer Suspended Over Dangling Skier Photo
Peter Wine, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Dayton | OH | USA | Posted: 10:00 AM on 01.08.09 |
->> I guess I'm either the first to notice or just the first to post about this. Or blind as a bat, when I did a search for existing threads.
For those that don't know the story, a fellow was at a ski resort in Vail, Colorado when there was a problem with the chair lift, and he got stuck, upside down, dangling from the chair because his ski got stuck in the chair, and the pants (and underwear) stuck on the chair, pulled all the way down to the ankles.
Turns out that one of the sets of photos was taken by an off duty photographer, using his personal camera, who works for a company that takes pictures of skiers.
The photographer has been suspended by the company, and because of a non-compete clause in his contract, can't sell the photo.
Yikes. |
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Jason Joseph, Photographer
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Dublin | OH | USA | Posted: 10:25 AM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> As a ski/snowboard photographer myself, that is a moment that you just can't let pass by without capturing it. I have seen too many people on the hill that just shouldn't have been where they were. I would have to add this guy to the list. Too funny. |
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John Petrovic, Photographer
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Olathe | KS | | Posted: 4:02 PM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> Hope there wasn't a bad case of frostbite...ouch! |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 4:15 PM on 01.08.09 |
->> Peter may have been addressing the photographers situation being suspended from work more than the skier caught in the unfortunate situation.
What reason are they giving for the suspension?
It would seem depending on the non compete clause that he would be fine as he is selling the image editorialy and not in the same type of business as the company he works for which apprears to be taking photos of skiers and selling to skiers. |
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Mitchell Gunn, Photographer
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Klagenfurt | nil | Austria | Posted: 4:37 PM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> Well seeing the coverage he is getting with a lot of national papers in Europe running the story, he is probably glad he took the shots!! I am sure his bank manager is. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 4:45 PM on 01.08.09 |
->> Did you notice the conflict in statements?
According to the story, the photographer was not on the clock at the time and was using his own gear when he created the image. However, the official statement issued by his employer included in the story said that he was. However in another story, Odom was quoted say his employer knew he wasn't on the clock (http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20090106/NEWS/901069934/1062/rss&parentpro...) yet were punishing him regardless. It would also be interesting to read the company's wording in its non-compete clause. |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 4:46 PM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> I don't think the company who suspended him really has grounds to suspend him, seeing as he was off duty and wasn't shooting in the capacity of a resort photograph. He also used personal equipment. |
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Aaron Rhoads, Photographer
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McComb | MS | USA | Posted: 5:31 PM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> You don't think that would look great on the cover of the tourist magazine? |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 5:41 PM on 01.08.09 |
->> omg that is funny. Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George is caught naked after coming out of the pool in his bedroom, and he yells "I was in the pool"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cUNNKzj_Nc
(ok probably not that funny but still) |
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Juerg Schreiter, Photographer
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Fort Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 5:53 PM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> at least the guy that was stuck can claim shrinkage :-) |
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Kevin Leas, Photographer, Assistant
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Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 5:56 PM on 01.08.09 |
->> Without knowing exactly what the contract says, I can only come to two conclusions:
1) That company is completely wrong in suspending him (if he was in fact off the clock), and hopefully the photographer will be compensated nicely for not only his trouble with that issue, but also for the unique photos that he's captured
OR
2) This guy signed one really, really horrible contract that someone states any photos he takes - EVER - belong to that group, which would be proof that you need to be really careful to read anything before you sign it. Although, a contract that broad seems completely implausible, as that would basically be saying "yep, your family photos are ours now". |
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
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wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 6:04 PM on 01.08.09 |
->> "He also used personal equipment."
And took a photo of someone else's personal equipment. |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 6:15 PM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> JERRY TELL THEM ABOUT SHRINKAGE!!!!! |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 6:30 PM on 01.08.09 |
->> I think the guy's employer needs to discover a sense of humor.
Fortunately for the skier/snow boarder, he was wearing a helmet.
If he fell to the ground heads down like that, more than his pride would get damaged.
Helmets do not protect one from shrinkage, though. |
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Jon L Hendricks, Photographer
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Hobart | IN | USA | Posted: 6:44 PM on 01.08.09 |
->> He has full rights to sell the photo as editorial content to whomever he pleases since he was off-duty and using his own equipment. The problem for the photographer may be that if he releases the photo or sells it any further he will be canned by the company. So, he probably took the suspension instead and kept his job.
Here's a different question...How would one even get compensated for use of the image if all these media outlets just start using the photo without permission? I'm guessing the Vale Daily got the photo first with permission and then TheSmokingGun.com just picked it up without permission...and then Denver's Channel 7 site is using it and so on and so forth. Isn't that copyright infringement? Now if these media outlets get permission, then it would be a different story. |
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Wayne Short, Photographer
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Kingsville | TX | USA | Posted: 6:47 PM on 01.08.09 |
->> Hmmmmm ...lets see.
Sharpshooters could have embraced the fact that one of their shooters was getting international attention, enjoyed the free POSITIVE publicity, and congratulated their employee for putting a little extra coin in his pocket for being prepared.
OR
Do what they did, and get a bucket load of NEGATIVE pub.
Wrong choice if you ask me. |
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Zach Ornitz, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Aspen | CO | USA | Posted: 7:14 PM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> Vail Sucks! Long live the Aspen vs. Vail rivalry. It's a mountain town thing... sorry to go off-topic. But for the record, I spent my first winter out of college as a "Sharpshooter." Can anyone say "Happy Snappy?" |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 7:19 PM on 01.08.09 |
->> Wayne - My guess is that Sharpshooters is a vendor that likely is, at least in part, owned and/or operated by the resort, so I doubt they would consider a bunch of photos of a guy hanging upside down from one of their lifts with his wang a-waggling as "positive publicity."
Take it from someone who deals with his share of ski resort marketing and PR reps. |
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Chad Hipolito, Photographer
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Red Deer | AB | Canada | Posted: 7:24 PM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> hahha. Sorry cant help it. Every year I go riding i see people get stuck on the chair, or fall off the chair, nothing too serious of course, but this one is the best ive seen. A world class ski hill like Vail, is probably so embarrased well not as much as the skier dangling, but embarassed enough to suspend the off duty photographer because they needed to place fault on someone. Im sure the lifties or matinence crew got an ear full too if not theyre jobs as well. Afterall its the maitinence crew who maintain the chairlift the photographer is just doing what any of us would have done, well at least I would have. |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 7:26 PM on 01.08.09 |
->> Vail is a truck stop in I-70.
Crested Butte! Now there's a ski town (that one can afford).
Aspen is great. I just don't have the deep pockets. |
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Zach Ornitz, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Aspen | CO | USA | Posted: 7:35 PM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> Well said, Walter. Although "Ass-pen's" billionaires are beginning to push the millionaires out and they seem to be settling 10 miles over the ridge in "Crusty Butt." Telluride's a REAL ski town. |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 7:50 PM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> I think Zack can back me up here when I say that pretty much all major ski resorts more or less suck ass. Grand Targhee is the only resort I'll voluntarily ski. I only put up with Jackson Hole when I have to cover an event there. Unfortunatly Targhee's new marketing team is moving the resort away from the family-friendly place it is now to a destination for bro-brahs to film ski-porn. A cup of hot chocolate went from a buck fifty to four bones in a single season. It's really enough to make me puke. |
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Zach Ornitz, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Aspen | CO | USA | Posted: 8:07 PM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> I love how we've corrupted this thread... Yeah, ski resorts are a necessary evil. It gets tiring pretty quick when you're dragging 40 lbs. of glass into the backcountry. I need to ice my knees every night through the ski season and visit the hot tub at least once a week. Bradly, as far as Coloradans are concerned, Targhee's been a bro-brah resort ever since TGR started showing footage of that hike-to sidecountry cliff band. I don't think that any bro-brahs I know would shell out four bucks for a packet of Swiss Miss in hot water. Back to the drawing board for the Targhee PR dept. Oh yeah... Vail still sucks. |
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Zach Ornitz, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Aspen | CO | USA | Posted: 8:17 PM on 01.08.09 |
| ->> Oh... and while we're at it, those men on the banner from Mavericks don't ride mountains. They ride waves. I'll show you mountains! |
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Kevin Johnston, Photographer
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Oden | MI | USA | Posted: 9:26 PM on 01.08.09 |
->> Lets see, guys embarassing moment plastered all over the world, who is going to get sued in this one. Resort? Lift Operator? Lift Manufacturer? All of the above?
Maybe his employer is trying to distance itself from what is pretty sure to be a whole lot of court time. |
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Steve King, Photographer
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Ann Arbor | MI | USA | Posted: 9:28 PM on 01.08.09 |
->> It shrinks?
Like a frightened turtle!
... and I'm told you really want to go to Breckenridge not Vail. |
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Andrew Sullivan, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Kissimmee | FL | USA | Posted: 9:25 AM on 01.09.09 |
->> Is his employer a subsidiary of the resort? Is the photograph made on private property? The resort itself may have conditions placed on the way photographs taken on their property can be used.
That being said, its a great shot, and I'm glad to have seen it. Brightened my day!
Andrew Sullivan
http://www.picandrew.com |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 10:28 AM on 01.09.09 |
->> Some of the event/contract companies that I have spoken with in the past have several clauses in their employment contract to deal with things like this. When resorts are granting access to their clients to photographers they want some assurances that compromising, embarrassing, or damaging photos won't be credited back to someone that THEY enabled. As such the contracts are setup so that they cover the period of employment not just when you are "on the clock".
It's not that different than wait staff not being allowed to drink in a restaurant bar off the clock. Or players not being allowed to fraternize with the cheerleaders while they are under contract with the team.
If this contractor didn't have such clauses in their employment contract this year they will next year. I feel for the photographer, I would have taken the shot too. Putting it on the web or trying to license it, was the no-no. |
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Zach Ornitz, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Aspen | CO | USA | Posted: 11:17 AM on 01.09.09 |
| ->> Vail Resort leases it's right to use PUBLIC land from the forest service. The mountain is part of the National Forest. You, or I, or anybody have a right to be on public land shooting whatever we please. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 12:11 PM on 01.09.09 |
->> Zach if there is a lease in place then certain rights may have been conveyed. For example I know that one of the youth leagues a few towns over leases the ball fields from the school department for the summer months. During that period, even though the fields are built on public land, using public funds, the league has complete control of who has access, and the circumstances under which access is granted.
In another town a 99 year lease was granted to the youth baseball league, they too have 100% control of what goes on at the ball park. So if a lease has been granted you have to know what rights, uses, and easements are covered by the lease. |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 5:44 PM on 01.09.09 |
| ->> Zach - It should come as no surprise to you that Targhee's new marketing / PR team includes individuals who worked for TGR. |
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Lesley Ann Miller, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Irvine | CA | US | Posted: 2:02 PM on 01.11.09 |
->> From Kevin's link:
"Marty Odom, the photographer, had claimed that he was on his own time using his own camera when he took the pictures. But Peri said Odom was wearing a SharpShooter uniform, had checked out the company's camera and had even submitted a time card for payment that day.
When confronted Tuesday with these facts, Odom admitted he had lied to company officials about what camera he used, Peri said."
Looking at the 5 photos posted on The Smoking Gun (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0106091vail1.html), the EXIF of the 2nd and 3rd photos, where the skier is being rescued, show the camera to be a Panasonic DMC-TZ3:
Camera Make: Panasonic
Camera Model: DMC-TZ3
Image Date: 2009:01:01 12:27:09
Flash Used: No (Auto)
Focal Length: 46.0mm (35mm equivalent: 280mm)
Exposure Time: 0.0080 s (1/125)
Aperture: f/4.9
ISO equiv: 100
Exposure Bias: 0.33
White Balance: Auto
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: program (Auto)
The 4th and 5th photos, where the skier hasn't been rescued, were taken with a Nikon D80:
Camera Make: NIKON CORPORATION
Camera Model: NIKON D80
Image Date: 2008:12:19 11:26:37
Flash Used: No
Focal Length: 220.0mm (35mm equivalent: 330mm)
Exposure Time: 0.0016 s (1/640)
Aperture: f/5.0
ISO equiv: 320
Exposure Bias: 0.33
White Balance: Auto
Metering Mode: Center Weight
Exposure: shutter priority (semi-auto)
I assume that the Nikon is the company camera, which he used while the guy was dangling (no pun intended). By the time he got close enough to use the P&S (I assume his personal camera), the rescuers had already reached the guy.
I guess he figured that no one would look at the EXIF to see that he hadn't used his personal camera for all of the images. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 2:55 PM on 01.11.09 |
| ->> Nice find, Lesley. |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 5:20 PM on 01.11.09 |
->> Mr. Odom is probably smoking more than his gun right now.
This is how the west was won! |
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