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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

"Calling All Photojournalists In Israel and Gaza"
Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 2:56 PM on 01.06.09
->> Wouldn't it be fun if every photographer out there asked what they intended to pay for usage?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rebecca-shapiro/calling-all-photographers_b_1...
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
Nashville | TN | U.S. | Posted: 3:03 PM on 01.06.09
->> How inappropriate would it be for me to send in a fake scene that I set up with my neighbor's action figures?
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Joe Cavaretta, Photographer
Ft Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 3:30 PM on 01.06.09
->> the huff post is known for stellar photojournalism:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/06/vail-chairlift-accident-l_n_155578...
EXCLUSIVE!
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Joe Morahan, Photographer
Denver | Co | USA | Posted: 3:50 PM on 01.06.09
->> Joe....That is funny as hell-

I hope that never ever happens to me....I'd rather fall than have that pic on the internet for ever

Sucks for him
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 3:56 PM on 01.06.09
->> "The Naked Truth - Only on Huffington Post"

"We Bare All - Huffington Post"

"(Wind)Breaking News on the Huffington Post"

"No Pants Zone"

"Bare and Balanced"
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Richard Uhlhorn, Photographer
Chelan Falls | WA | USA | Posted: 3:58 PM on 01.06.09
->> I actually investigated their website and couldn't find any reference to what they pay for new, photos, or other content. When I went to their advertising section, I also couldn't find how much they charge for advertising. Interesting.

I also believe that they just got a huge load of venture capital at the end of 2008.
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Hal Smith, Photographer
Sedalia | MO | USA | Posted: 4:01 PM on 01.06.09
->> Jim,

I just posted my feelings as a comment to the story.

Hal,
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Patrick Meredith, Photographer, Assistant
Austin | TX | USA | Posted: 4:03 PM on 01.06.09
->> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1cUNNKzj_Nc ?
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Craig Dilger, Photographer
Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 4:12 PM on 01.06.09
->> I know a couple of people who have been in the area lately and may still be around so I sent them this email.

Rebecca,
What is usage rate for images from Israel/Gaza? I have some friends out there who might have some stuff to send along. But the calling all photographers memo made it sound like you were looking to give photojournalists nothing more than credit for their work.

Best,
Craig Dilger


Here is the response I got just a few minutes later. I think my response back should simply say that my friends prefer to be able to eat while putting their lives in danger to get photos to a "wide American audience".


Hi Craig,

Thank you for your interest. We cannot pay our photographers. We can offer you the chance to get your photos out to a wide American audience.

If you are still interested, please send them to this address with captions and the exact byline.

Thank you.

Best,
Hanna Ingber Win
World Editor
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 4:24 PM on 01.06.09
->> Was anyone really expecting anything different from what Craig posted?
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
Nashville | TN | U.S. | Posted: 4:46 PM on 01.06.09
->> This just isn't the same, to me, as having people submit their winter pictures in their yard. Who is covering a war zone ON SPEC?
On a side note, I'd like anyone covering the Super Bowl to send me pictures if the Titans make it. I'll give you credit on the back of the picture framed on my wall. (Hi-resolution photos only, please.)
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David Harpe, Photographer
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 6:29 PM on 01.06.09
->> Do we know their terms? I couldn't find them...
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Rob Ostermaier, Photographer
Newport News | VA | USA | Posted: 6:39 PM on 01.06.09
->> I don't know about you guys but I would gladly risk life and limb in a war zone for nothing other than the great honor of having a byline in the mighty huffingtonpost.com.

I'm on a plane to Israel now!;)
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Hal Smith, Photographer
Sedalia | MO | USA | Posted: 6:42 PM on 01.06.09
->> The Huffington Post's policy is nonpayment.

I sent this email:

Dear Ms. Ingber Win,

As a working photojournalist I find it egregious that "The Huffington Post" is asking for photographic submissions from Gaza.

"The Huffington Post" needs to rethink it's non payment for display policy; especially if you are asking photographers working under the stress of combat to submit original art.

Are you aware that 95 journalists were killed in 2008 while covering stories in conflict sites across the globe. The journalists that are covering these conflicts are not just doing it because they want to see their byline in print or on the web, they are doing their job because they expect to get paid for a days work.

Please continue to use art from the various wire services, but don't ask people risking life and limb telling important stories to submit their work with the only compensation being a byline.

Hal Smith
photojournalist

If you are interested The Huffington Post's world editor is Hanna Ingber Win and she can be contacted at hingber@huffingtonpost.com
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Hal Smith, Photographer
Sedalia | MO | USA | Posted: 8:27 PM on 01.06.09
->> Here's the response that I received.

Dear Hal,

I hear where you are coming from. Unfortunately, I do not have the ability to pay our writers or photographers. I completely understand your concerns and frustration with this.

Do you think it is different asking for written work for free? The HuffPost does that all the time. I am genuinely asking your opinion on this. The World section just launched, and this is our first callout. I am open to hearing people's opinions and feedback on it.

Of course, I am not asking ppl to travel to a warzone for a byline. The idea is that if there are people there who want their work published (or their written work published), we want to give ppl a place to submit it. And we want to have more voices, more discussion, more images to
document this conflict.

Again, I hear you and do wish I were in the position to pay professionals.

I hope you understand.

Best
Hanna
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 9:11 PM on 01.06.09
->> " Again, I hear you and do wish I were in the position to pay professionals.

I hope you understand." Best Hanna


Interesting.

Is wonderful Hanna working for free as well? How she pays her rent, medical health care, living expenses?

All I hear from her is, "send us your images for free.."

Sounds like the right advice to join the rank of homeless folks.

How about sending her more emails?

Folks a photo used is a photo pay for!

More 2 Come

www.ManuelloPaganelli.com
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Matthew Ginn, Photographer
Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 9:13 PM on 01.06.09
->> ppl? ppl? This is professional correspondence from a professional editor? omfg!
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PJ Heller, Photographer
Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 9:35 PM on 01.06.09
->> Huffpo is not the only one . . . How about the BBC:

"Every day BBC News - on TV, on radio and online - brings you the latest stories from across the globe ... but what we want to hear are the issues that matter to you.

"The part you play in making the news is very important. Whether it is breaking news or a featured item, your contribution can make a difference.

"Have you seen or been involved in a news event?

"Is something significant, bizarre or unusual happening where you live?

"Have you got a story to tell or is there something you think we should follow up?"

As for rights . . . just what you’d expect (except they won’t grab copyright):

6. By sharing any contribution (including any text, photographs, graphics, video or audio) with the BBC you agree to grant to the BBC, free of charge, permission to use the material in any way it wants (including modifying and adapting it for operational and editorial reasons) for BBC services in any media worldwide (including on the BBC's site accessed by international users). In certain circumstance the BBC may also share your contribution with trusted third parties*.
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Chris Stanfield, Photographer, Photo Editor
Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 9:54 PM on 01.06.09
->> This is coming to a head and will only get worse in 2009. Large media organizations wanting content for free isn't that new of a concept. What scares me to death is that people are giving it to them, and in large quantities.
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Chris Mackler, Student/Intern, Photographer
Arlington | VA | United States | Posted: 10:14 PM on 01.06.09
->> Does anyone remember good ol' CNN's iReport.com fiasco where one "citizen journalist" jokingly put up a story about CEO Steve Jobs having a heart attack, and Apple's stock plummeted on hearing the fake "news?"

http://tinyurl.com/4xx26d

Seriously, citizen journalism...
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Mark Peters, Photographer
Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 10:38 PM on 01.06.09
->> Who will likely respond to such a "call out"? Those who cannot get their staged photos published anywhere else.

I fully expect to see multiple postings of alleged atrocities (both sides)and other propaganda style images.
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Hal Smith, Photographer
Sedalia | MO | USA | Posted: 11:18 AM on 01.07.09
->> I just received this response today. The response was to my second email at the bottom of the page.


Thank you, Hal. I will talk to others here about this. These are all important points.

Best
Hanna

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 8:23 PM, Hal Smith wrote:



Dear Hanna,

No, I do not understand. All media professionals deserve financial compensation for their work when it's used in published form and "The Huffington Post" though web based is still publishing the work.

I realize that today's media consumer is getting information from vastly different sources than ever before, but the news still needs to be accurate and reliable.

Please read some of the posts that attached to "Calling all photographers in Israel and Gaza." The people who are responding have discussed "fauxtography" skills ((i.e.) faking an image). Can you as world news editor even think about using work that could call into question your site's accuracy and reliability and expect to have a job when it explodes in the national media.


The type of people who will submit to your site for just a byline and national exposure will at some point burn the "The Huffington Post" and call its credibility into question.


You really don't want to be the evening punchline on Fox News when you could have hired and payed a professional to do the job right in first place.


Does "The Huffington Post" accept advertising revenue? If it does, it is a commercial entity.


Is the site profitable? If so, the site has an obligation to pay it's contributors a reasonable fee for their work.

If the site is not profitable it may be time to re-examine it's business plan and structure.

Sincerely
Hal Smith
Photojournalist
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Dave Doonan, Photographer
Kingston | TN | USA | Posted: 11:53 AM on 01.07.09
->> Go Hal!!
I am dealing with all the off beat "journalists" here in Tennessee dealing with a fly ash pond break that has become an environmental, economic and public relations disaster for the area. These "journalists" will follow every lead whether credible or not, and distort the facts and put some of this disinformation on the web whether for a legit news organization or not. It's nice to see someone who is fighting for our rights. We need more Hals!
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 12:01 PM on 01.07.09
->> At least the skier was wearing helmet for protection.

If I were in Gaza right now, the only thing I'd want to do is get out. There is no helmet big enough to protect anyone there. There is no photograph worth one's life to give away for free.

Having tour the Gaza during the first Intifada, there is no place to hide, the infrastructure is broken at best, and everything is a potential target. The Gaza has the potential of being the very worst of urban warfare since Stalingrad, or perhaps the Nazi's destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto. The only difference is the Palestinians aren't the Soviet Army, nor does Israel want to march the people to extermination camps. But the all out brutality of building to building fighting in the Gaza has to be hell on earth.
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Richard Uhlhorn, Photographer
Chelan Falls | WA | USA | Posted: 12:29 PM on 01.07.09
->> I just went to the Huff and Puff Post and guess what I found regarding images from GAZA. One lead-in photo from Getty Images and an AP photo with the article. Gee, I wonder if Getty and AP are supplying images for free?????

Rich
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Hal Smith, Photographer
Sedalia | MO | USA | Posted: 1:37 PM on 01.07.09
->> My last email; gee, I hope I haven't really pissed anyone off.

Dear Hanna,

I expect a better answer.

You also need to remember that the Huffpost is just an aggregator, and that there is a huge difference between op-ed and news reporting. The news on your site comes from: AP, AFP, Reuters and many other sources from which you collect and post.

An aggregator collects, it doesn't create.

The Associated Press depends on people like me who work for various member publications around the world.

In these times when news publications are suffering from the Internet push and recent economic problems, what do you think will happen to the craft of journalism when reporters and photographers lose their jobs in droves?

The public will still need the basic skills of journalists to help keep our local, state, and federal government in check. Without a robust free press what will happen to the basic rights that you take for granted.

We as journalists can't stand at the street corner holding "will work for food signs." We pay bills too.

Would you be able to do your job without a paycheck, would you do your job without a paycheck? I think not.

One last thing to think about: Not even the New York Times makes more than 3 percent of its total revenue from its website.

Best wishes,
Hal Smith

P.S. I hope discussions go well.
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Hal Smith, Photographer
Sedalia | MO | USA | Posted: 1:50 PM on 01.07.09
->> I don't why, but this issue really put a bug up my wazoo.

I usually don't do stuff like this. If I've offended any of colleagues I truly apologize.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 2:04 PM on 01.07.09
->> Hal I worked in the ED for many years. If you are not currently covered by health insurance I can give you home remedies for your case of bugs in the wazoo. We saw this often, very treatable.
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Hal Smith, Photographer
Sedalia | MO | USA | Posted: 2:49 PM on 01.07.09
->> I doubt I'll ever get another response.
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Matthew Healey, Photographer
Providence | RI | | Posted: 4:02 PM on 01.07.09
->> I say good on ya Hal. Seriously. I don't think you crossed any lines, and you kept it very professional. Hopefully it will give the higher ups at Huffington something to think about.



Okay probably not, but it's still worth it.
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Adam Vogler, Photographer
Pittsburg | KS | USA | Posted: 4:53 PM on 01.07.09
->> More great news,

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28542733

Nice to know with thousands of journalists losing there jobs that somebody with NO education, training or experience can get a shot at this story.I'm sure that his reportage will be excellent and without any bias. (don't slip in the sarcasm)

Makes a nice depressing break from filling out unemployment paperwork.
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 5:19 PM on 01.07.09
->> Adam

Sounds more like the "Average Joe Propagandist" than journalist.

Someone with LOTS of money is creating this illusion.
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Adam Vogler, Photographer
Pittsburg | KS | USA | Posted: 5:55 PM on 01.07.09
->> Your right Walter, I probably wouldn't qualify what with my parents raising me with ethics, values and integrity.

Dangit Mom and Dad, there goes any chance of me being a captain of industry or a career in politics.
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Jamie Roper, Photographer
Portland | OR | United States | Posted: 6:16 PM on 01.07.09
->> Joe the Journalist:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090107/ap_on_re_us/joe_the_plumber

I'm moving back to China.
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Jamie Roper, Photographer
Portland | OR | United States | Posted: 6:18 PM on 01.07.09
->> woops, sorry, redundant post, sorry.
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Keith Mokris, Student/Intern
St. Louis | MO | USA | Posted: 6:29 PM on 01.07.09
->> I just read that article about the Joe the plumber....WOW (jaw on the floor)...yet again...that's the way media is heading in this country.
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 9:13 PM on 01.07.09
->> " I just read that article about the Joe the plumber....WOW (jaw on the floor)"

Sure. But he's probably getting paid...
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
Nashville | TN | U.S. | Posted: 9:41 PM on 01.07.09
->> They're going to need a plumber when they see his stories.
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Albert Brown, Photographer
Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 10:05 PM on 01.07.09
->> Hal,

I'm in total agreement with you on this -- especially since the Huffington Post does pay for images from AP, Getty, Reuters, etc. Jon Stewart had Arianna Huffington on the Daily Show in early December and she spoke about blogging and about the Huffington Post's success on the web. Here's a clip of her appearance:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=212824&title=Arianna-...

After reading the World News Editor's post soliciting readers for Gaza/Israel photos and her responses to your emails, it seems very likely that they (HuffPost) are hoping for photo 'contributions' -- similar to CNN's iReport. I think that such a request is in line with the way the Huffington Post has grown its site and readership.

I bet she didn't expect to open a can of worms by writing: "Sign up here to be a HuffPost World Photojournalist and participate in HuffPost World's international coverage" !!! LoL.

Thanks for posting your correspondence with her -- very insightful in more ways than one.

Cheers
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Thread Title: "Calling All Photojournalists In Israel and Gaza"
Thread Started By: Jim Colburn
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