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PHOTOGRAPHER IS KICKED OUT FROM A MALL
Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 3:54 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> Matthew is one of my former assistants, quite professional and low key, and he reached me a few days ago regarding an incident at a mall. In other words he got kicked out while he was trying to shoot a fountain outside this place.
I asked if there were any signs posted and he didnt see any and I also told him that some mall dont permit any photography.What is interesting is that I am sure plenty of tourist do shoot that fountain the very same way you would do any other place in the world. BUt it seems that our rights slowly are been taken away.
You all can read the rest below. I dont usually run into this situation since all is usually set up for me and my crew before we get to the location. Can any of you folks put your thoughts into this so I can send it to him?
I personally will call the property manager and hear what he/she has to say.
I believe in the past this was discussed as well but I couldnt find it in the search engine. THanks
More 2 Come
http://www.ManuelloPaganelli.com
Hey Manuello thanks for responding.
my photo incident: ok it was sunday evening at westlake village promenade. Around 8pm. Not many people out. I parked my car, grabbed y SLR and walked to the sidewalk in front of a fountain and 2 restaurants. I was outside. I just wanted to shoot the fountain with the 2 buildings in the background. I was shooting b&w.
I did not have a tripod w/ me so I sat the samera on the wall of the fountain. I crouched down to compose etc.. Within 15 seconds the security guy told me I can not shoot. Then brought his boss over and he said the same thing. They stated the property management does not allow photography here. I got the number of the management but have not called yet. Then there was a 3rd security thug standing there.
I was not shooting any people. I was outside on the sidewalk just 100ft from my car.
I have read places that are public access are free shoot areas? Right?
thanks for your advice.
Matthew |
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Brandon Gresham, Photographer
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Homewood | AL | USA | Posted: 3:57 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> Malls are private property and are owned and managed by private companies. So in this situation they were in their right to ask him to stop taking images.
Or am I wrong? |
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Chris Machian, Photographer, Assistant
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 3:58 PM on 10.14.08 |
| ->> Malls aren't public property. |
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Jim Comeau, Student/Intern, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 4:00 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> You can't walk on to someone's lawn and take a picture of their house, but you can do so from the sidewalk.
Thing with malls is that they often own the sidewalks. |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 4:21 PM on 10.14.08 |
| ->> Shoot from the street if possible. Malls are private property. you can call and they may give you persmission. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 4:58 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> Malls are a gray area of the law. Some legal scholars contend that, because they have become de facto public squares, that the owners are restricted in the types of behavior that they can forbid.
Any volunteers for a test case?
--Mark |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 5:28 PM on 10.14.08 |
| ->> Are any of those scholars willing to take the case pro bono? |
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Marty Price, Photographer
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Concord | NC | USA | Posted: 5:49 PM on 10.14.08 |
| ->> The Concord Mills mall here in Concord has a standing policy that there is no photography in any area including the parking lots. They have a police substation on the property (attached to the mall) and when I was assigned to shoot a police officer on the property we were approached by numerous security gaurds and they eventually gave way due to the police officer asserting his authority. So I say it may be a gray area but if you don't have their permission, or a police escort as I did, you will have to play by their rules. It is private property but I don't understand how a police sub station can be on private property. BTW if they have an event that they want coverage I am never approached as I walk to the event with all my gear, probably because security had been advised that I would be there for coverage, all other times I have been approached immediately. Just my experience. Marty |
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Myung Chun, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 6:13 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> This very issue (among others) was covered during an info session with our company attorney.
We were told that malls are semi-public which means it's private property but the public is allowed access. Because it is private property, they can restrict you from photography.
Depends on which sidewalk you were on. If it was a mall sidewalk, then they can ask you to stop photographing. If you were on a public sidewalk then they had no right to stop you. |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 6:19 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> I don't think anyone should go to Malls.
Bring back the downtown!
HA!
ps - private property is private. Must get permission. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 6:25 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> Must get permission.
...or rent a 50' lift and a 300... :-) |
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David Wang, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | USA | Posted: 6:59 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> "Malls are a gray area of the law. Some legal scholars contend that, because they have become de facto public squares, that the owners are restricted in the types of behavior that they can forbid."
Not 100% on this but I think malls can technically close off its property one day a year (exercising ownership over that property) to prevent easement from kicking in. |
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Myung Chun, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 8:20 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> "Not 100% on this but I think malls can technically close off its property one day a year (exercising ownership over that property) to prevent easement from kicking in."
I've never seen a mall close for one day. They would lose too much money. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 8:32 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> The EXACT same thing happened to me, and I was told later that unless I am breaking a law, there is absolutely nothing they can do. They are belligerent and jerkheads to intimidate you, but there is no real way they can stop you or call cop;s on you.
Phil |
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Kevin Johnston, Photographer
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Oden | MI | USA | Posted: 8:54 PM on 10.14.08 |
| ->> Please contact an attorney in your state of residence to get the correct answer to this question. |
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Heston Quan, Photographer
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Orange County | CA | | Posted: 9:10 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> It's a crying shame when you can't take innocent pictures of people/places anymore without some jerk chasing you away. I've been chased away from shooting simple photos of small groups of HS kids for their yearbook in front of fountains at office buildings to doing portraits in the park/beach to pics of cool looking alleyways. Many give the "Homeland Security" crap for not allowing it. Then tell me, why are the Paparazzi allowed in the supposed highest security area, an airport? They get away with taking photos of everything, they cause a commotion and harrass people? They are never stopped or questioned by the police. It's just not right. Google Maps Streetview is more of a threat than a peon like me.
Maybe I'll just buy a point and shoot and use that from now on. Nobody ever threatens someone who shoots with one. |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 9:27 PM on 10.14.08 |
| ->> If the mall is privately owned, it's just like most other privately-owned place with public access. You have a limited ability to take photos. Basically you can take photos until they tell you to leave. |
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John Tucker, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cordova | TN | USA | Posted: 9:49 PM on 10.14.08 |
| ->> Shooting at the mall takes on a whole new meaning in Knoxville, TN.......then again, that was last weeks news! |
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N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
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Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 9:59 PM on 10.14.08 |
| ->> My ex managed a mall in Phoenix and had me kicked out for an assigned story on Christmas shopping. Bloody Nazis they are. |
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Chris Machian, Photographer, Assistant
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 10:22 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> " I was told later that unless I am breaking a law, there is absolutely nothing they can do."
phil who told you that?
someone who will bail you out of jail when you get arrested for trespassing, I hope.
The mall is like an business or home. They can tell who ever they want to leave their property.
You can't come in my house and shoot a painting hanging on my wall without my permission, you can't go inside a Walmart and shoot a magazine display rack without their permission.
A mall is no different.
Every photographer should know the laws governing their profession.
One case often referenced is
http://supreme.justia.com/us/526/603/case.html
Just because you don't think it is right doesn't mean it isn't the LAW.
Also security isn't paid to be polite. Why would they be polite when someone is wrongly informing them of the law and how to do their job.
You should always seek permission before entering private property, whether it is a house, business or mall. I always have
It reflects poorly on our profession when we don't and when we are rude about it.
Think before you post, people read these things and take our advice. I am going from my memory from my Communication Law class. I never sold that book back and it sits on my shelf today. |
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Dan Bannister, Photographer
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Calgary | AB | Canada | Posted: 11:14 PM on 10.14.08 |
->> I do a lot of travel magazine assignments and have noticed a phenomenal change in attitude over the last few years in the US. It's gotten to the point that I'm reluctant to take assignments south of the border. Just spoke to a UK publisher this morning who wants me to shoot a travel piece in Chicago and, frankly, because of the number of restaurants and other business locations that are on the shot list, I'm reluctant to take the job, just too much hassle in the US that I really don't get any where else.
The level of hysteria about photography is pretty surprising. I was in a restaurant in Orlando recently and when I pulled out my 1D to take a couple of shots of my meal, the waitress actually tried to tell me that if I wanted to take pictures, I had to get permission from "corporate". Of course, if I was shooting it with my iPhone, they probably would not have even noticed.
Bottom line is, I think there may be too many lawyers, publicists and marketing types trying to control everything and not enough free press and photo advocates doing their job these days. |
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Marty Price, Photographer
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Concord | NC | USA | Posted: 11:25 PM on 10.14.08 |
| ->> Getting permission can also be sweet revenge. When my daughter had a college interview at the Bank of America building in Charlotte I took along one camera with one wide zoom lens and waited outside taking some pictures of the down town buildings. There were police present but as I shot they did not bother me. Shortly after I started the security from the BOA building came out and told me I could not take pictures of their building. I explained my right to shoot anyhting I wanted from the sidewalk and told him to go ask the police officer on the corner. When he returned he said the police officer said I was correct but he was not going to allow me to shoot anymore pictures of his building. Since my daughter was still inside his building I decided not to maker a big case out of it, besides I wasn't actually working,so I put my camera away and went inside to wait. Three weeks later I was contracted by a out of town paper to shoot two of the BOA big wigs with the building in the background, the paper arranged with a higher up for clearance to do this. When I walked in with two bodies, flashes and light stands the same security officer looked up at me and said "Oh no! We have already had this conversation and you are not shooting my building" I smiled and said you might want to call this person and see what they have to say as I handed him a piece of paper with the higher up's name and number. The look on his face as he spoke to his higher up was priceless, I really enjoyed doing that portrait, in front of "his" building while he and his security team had to stand and watch. As I said getting permission can be sweet revenge, Marty |
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Jesse Beals, Photographer
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Silverdale | WA | USA | Posted: 12:00 AM on 10.15.08 |
->> I was told by the Washington State Patrol that malls are private property. They said that lots of times parents will teach their kids to drive at a mall because the kids can drive like idiots and not get pulled over.
I also asked what happens if a drunk driver pulls into a mall. The WSP said once the driver of any car leaves a mall they are off private property and fair game to be pulled over.
Thats how it is here in Washington state. |
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Guy Rhodes, Photographer
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East Chicago | IN | USA | Posted: 12:11 AM on 10.15.08 |
->> Having done a two day film shoot at a mall (a Westfield owned property), I can tell you that we had to go through STACKS of paperwork to get our project approved. Even then, our shooting times and locations had to be very specific and we were held to them throughout the shoot by the mall's security staff.
Malls are right up there with casinos in my book as places where you can expect to be immediately kicked out for shooting or, if you have permission to do so, expect a handler by your side making sure you're following the rules. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 12:49 AM on 10.15.08 |
->> malls are private property. you are screwed if you try and shoot there without permission..plain and simple. it's one of those crazy things that does not compute in our (photojournalistic) brains. "hey the public can come in here..why can't we?"
well you can't.
it's private property.
plain and simple.
argue all you want. post all the messages to sportsshooter.
cry baby cry.
it ain't gonna change. |
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Nic Summers, Photographer
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Mount Prospect | IL | USA | Posted: 1:00 AM on 10.15.08 |
| ->> Has anyone mentioned that malls are private property? |
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William Maner, Photographer
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Biloxi | MS | USA | Posted: 1:43 AM on 10.15.08 |
->> This is a topic that can vary quite a bit from region to region. Sometimes it seems like it all boils down to whether the folks in charge are having a good day or bad day.
I've done a lot of personal photos at our local mall. I've never had a problem with mall security.
We've had antique cars on display at the mall, we've had dance shows.. We've had some players and coaches from the New Orleans Saints stop as part of a promotional tour. We've had NASCAR show cars on display.. We've had celebrities make promotional appearances... You name it... Lots of photo opportunities for the public.
How do you balance a no photo policy with so many camera inviting situations?
Casinos?? We have several casinos here.. I have been stopped from bringing my 1D and 17-40 lens onto the gaming floor at one casino. Yet at the same casino, I've shot photos of relatives playing the games on the floor with my Sony point and shoot camera.
When the Hard Rock Casino had its grand opening on 7-7-07, I had my 1D with me and walked all around taking photos. No one said a word to me. Maybe they were being lax with the rules because it was the grand opening.
These types of situations do make you wonder about the consistency of enforcement of rules and if there's some type of selective enforcement of such rules. If you look like suspicious, are you more likely to be singled out?? If you are a funny looking guy taking photos of little girls in a dance show, are you more likely to be singled out??
I think it's more or a reaction to the times we live in. We aren't as innocent as we used to be and that's sad... |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 3:18 AM on 10.15.08 |
->> william, it has nothing to do with being innocent...it has to do with the "image" of ther property.
hey positive publicity? come on in shoot all the photos you want to. someone got "popped", a big fight between teenagers, gang activity? ahhhhh....NO! private property. get out. this is NOT a reaction to "the times we live in" this is a private property spin used for POSITIVE publicity. plain and simple. yes..it's the times we live in....but it hasn't anything to do with security....it has to do with the DOLLAR! |
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Nick Adams, Photographer
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Sacramento | CA | | Posted: 3:28 AM on 10.15.08 |
->> Chuck is right. The malls want to look great no matter what. They want to protect themselves and the stores within. Every time we have to photograph at the mall, we have to kiss some butt to do it. But shooting from the sidewalk, that should be public property if next to the road.
A movie about the root of money and its true power.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912 |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 3:37 AM on 10.15.08 |
| ->> Kevin Johnston's post was right on, see an attorney, but it is still interesting to read other's experiences on this subject. It just makes you wonder what the management companies and commercial developers are so afraid of. |
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Kevin Novak, Photographer, Assistant
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Bel Air (Baltimore) | MD | USA | Posted: 6:54 AM on 10.15.08 |
->> Jesse Beals wrote:
"I was told by the Washington State Patrol that malls are private property. They said that lots of times parents will teach their kids to drive at a mall because the kids can drive like idiots and not get pulled over."
That may well be true in WA (I have no basis of knowledge on that) but it is not true in all states. In Maryland, traffic laws apply to "private property used by the public in general," which includes malls, apartment buildings, etc.
Kevin |
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
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wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 8:27 AM on 10.15.08 |
->> In OH you can get a DUI driving around your back yard. No, I've never done this, at least while drunk.
Jeff |
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Gary Mills, Photographer
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Culver | IN | USA | Posted: 8:42 AM on 10.15.08 |
->> My ex is Marketing Director at a large regional mall and to repeat earlier messages, "it is private property".
A professional photographer should realize that more than the casual shopper.
Management is not full of Nazi's or jerks. They are simply protecting their property the same as any photographer would of his studio or home.
If you had a large studio in a prime location you would not allow anyone to photograph your building or set up a table in front to sell trinkets.
Without notice or a phone call, she has had local charities show up with tables to sell cookies, even a politician lead his followers thru the mall with banners.
They were immediately stopped and escorted off the property.
The local press cannot show up to interview shoppers or do a piece on the mall without first obtaining permission.
It disturbs me to come down on the side of management but they are just protecting themselves. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 8:59 AM on 10.15.08 |
->> Stores and store management drive this posture more than mall management just deciding to be jerks. A lot of national chains have strict policies against photography in their stores - as anyone who has tried to photograph inside a Wal-Mart or a Target knows already.
I learned how this all works a couple of years ago when I was doing a features-type shoot at a mall. It was for the paper, and I was working with a tux rental outfit inside the mall. We had jumped through all the hoops - permission from the tux store management, even secured permission with the mall management to shoot right outside the store in front of a fountain. Low-key shoot - just me, the model and one battery powered strobe on a stand with umbrella. Hardly anyone in the mall since it was a Tuesday early.
About five minutes into the shoot, a security guard comes over and shuts us down. I called our mall contact and he apologized but said he got a call from one of the mall store managers who objected to our activities...the manager was afraid of us photographing the front of their store or something. Seemed silly to me, but I can't really blame the mall manager. The store writes him a big check every month and I'm a non-paying guest.
So the lesson here is even if you secure permission to shoot inside a mall, always have a B-plan. Because unless you secure permission from every merchant in the mall, you're on thin ice. |
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
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Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 9:52 AM on 10.15.08 |
->> "But it seems that our rights slowly are been taken away."
As is all too often in such calls to man the barricades, we're talking about "rights" that never existed in the first place.
As others have pointed out, Malls are generally "private property" and as such the owners, or their representatives, can almost always order anyone off of the property with or without "cause". There are some narrow exceptions... For example in a handful of states "reasonable" petitioning activities are allowed (mainly for unions) at shopping centers and malls.
I think the Connecticut Supreme Court in 2004, when responding to a union's request to extend 1st Amendment rights to malls in that state, summed up the overwhelming legal thinking about Malls as possible public spaces: "...Property [does not] lose its private character merely because the public is generally invited to use it for designated purposes... The essentially private character of a store and its privately owned abutting property does not change by virtue of being large or clustered with other stores in a modern shopping center... If the furnishing of building permits, police protection and public transportation were deemed to constitute sufficient government involvement to transform the actions of the defendants in refusing the plaintiffs' requests into those of public officials... almost every improved property would be subject to the same burden the plaintiffs seek to impose upon the mall." United Food And Commercial Workers Union, Local 919, AFL-CIO v. Crystal Mall Associates, L.P., 852 A.2d 659 (Conn. 2004)
It's also worth noting that such "no shooting without permission" trends are not necessarily rooted in post-9/11 paranoia. Many business owners have the perception that, more often then not, journalists showing up on your property unannounced are not a positive thing. |
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Alicia Wagner Calzada, Photographer
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San Antonio | TX | USA | Posted: 12:11 PM on 10.15.08 |
->> Malls are private property, unless they are owned by the city. There was a mall in Maryland that was really public property under private management, and they were spanked for trying to ban photographers. But if the mall is privately managed, that management can control who is there. By being able to control who is there, they can control the conditions under which you are there.
Sidewalks are generally not private. You can't keep members of the public from standing on the sidewalk in front of your house. The same rule usually applies to streets with commercial buildings. Ask the security guard to provide you with evidence that the sidewalk is controlled by the private company (for example, some restaurants rent sidewalk space for tables- you can't just walk in there and loiter). |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 12:29 PM on 10.15.08 |
->> Everyone has an opinion on this matter and everyone means well, but don't trust the SS.com lawyers. Nobody here will pay your bail if you get arrested for trespassing.
I've had dealings with malls before and it's a safe bet to contact mall management to get the go ahead on these situations. |
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Kolman Rosenberg, Photographer
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Mentor | OH | USA | Posted: 1:14 PM on 10.15.08 |
->> Try shooting with a point and shoot and with a family member or friend in the photo, or make it look that way.
I've been kicked out of a mall by security while at the same time they were allowing tourists to shoot their family members in front of a fountain. They explained to me that they didn't mind that. They also stated that you couldn't have store names, logos, signs, etc. in any photos.
It seems that pro (or pro looking) equipment is a red flag for security. |
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Stew Milne, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 4:55 PM on 10.15.08 |
->> I've been kicked out of my local mall for CARRYING my equipment through it. The mall has a parking garage and the mall is also attached to a hotel and a convention center. I sued the mall's parking then walked to my assignment at the convention center. On my way back I was escorted out of the building b/c I wasn't allowed to take photos inside. I informed them that I wasn't, just passing through, but the security guard followed me all the way to my car.
Also at this same mall, there was an incident where a mall security person ran his SUV through a guard rail on the 6th floor of the parking garage. It was just dangling on the edge, clearly visible from the street. The media was there covering it, including me, and when we tried to get a better view by going on a sidewalk that went under the mall, the security told us we could not. I obeyed the security officer, but a local TV crew did not, stating the sidewalk was a public right of way. Several more security personnel came out to try to get the crew off the sidewalk. I shot the whole thing from a public sidewalk.
Off air, the original security officer threatened the life of the TV reporter. The next day after the TV station aired the whole incident and told of the threatening, the security guard was fired.
What was odd about the gray area of the "public right ow way" was that the security guards were letting anyone with a P&S or digital camera on that sidewalk to shoot what they would not let the media do. I don't remember what became of the case and if it was ever determined if that sidewalk was a "public right of way."
All I know, is that I don't go to that mall anymore for anything. If I need to shop or need to take photos in a mall I go 10 miles north to one that will let me shoot inside, even though a security person follows me everywhere. |
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Luke Sharrett, Student/Intern
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Norfolk | VA | United States | Posted: 5:09 PM on 10.15.08 |
| ->> It never hurts to bring money into the issue. Politely telling a manager that you, your family, and all your photography friends could decide against spending thousands of dollars at their mall may change their minds about you shooting. Of course that's merely a drop in the bucket for most malls, but when you think about it, their livelihood depends on you, the consumer. |
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Mark Davis, Photographer
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Decatur | AL | USA | Posted: 5:13 PM on 10.15.08 |
->> My understanding malls are private property. They can prevent photographs taken on their property.
If its a fountain or event within the mall I want to photograph - I go talk to management beforehand. I have been successful in gaining permission everytime.
Several months back I photographed a regional mall in Alabama for corporate investors in NY. Prior to photography mall management and security were notified regarding my presence. During photography several store managers became visibly upset when I didn't stop shooting. They said the corporate office doesn't allow photography of their stores execpt by written approval. I adviced corporate needed to take that up with property owners whom hired for the assignment. They called security, but security knew why I was there and they didn't do anything. |
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Dan Bannister, Photographer
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Calgary | AB | Canada | Posted: 5:33 PM on 10.15.08 |
->> My question is, what the hell is going on at the mall that is so important that security needs to be on red alert at all times in case some photographer tries to take pictures.
OK, it's private property, we get it, but seriously, some hobby shooters looking for pretty fountain snaps? When did photography become such a threat?
I think this profession has hit an all time low with the non photo public. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 5:52 PM on 10.15.08 |
->> Dan it's the nature of the beast. Today's D1 Lifestyle spread is tomorrow's file photo to run with "Gangs In The Mall" or "Pedophile Lurking in Public Bathrooms". Once the photos are taken, all control is gone.
Sad to say, but I'm sure that there are 100's of examples of 'file photos' being used in an unfavorable manner that given the choice mall managers would never allow. |
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William Maner, Photographer
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Biloxi | MS | USA | Posted: 6:14 PM on 10.15.08 |
->> Dan B.
I think it's a situational matter. As I said in my earlier post, there are all sorts of attractions that bring people with cameras to our local mall--VIPs, celebrities, antique cars, dance recitals, and musical shows, etc..
Perhaps in the situation cited in the first post, maybe someone in the restaurant or restaurant management thought a suspicious looking person (he crouched down to compose) was trying to take photos of someone in the restaurant..
Remember, the general public is not that sophisticated about the abilities or limitations of "pro" photo equipment. They assume anything can be done with a "big" camera as opposed to an innocent looking point and shoot camera...or a cell phone with a built-in camera.
As for store management being paranoid about people walking around taking photos in the mall...I can't explain that one. I guess throughout the years there have been some incidents that have fostered a corporate "no-photo without permission" policy among stores.
It is amazing at how incidents can impact a mall. One example that I know of is the "late" Mall of Memphis in Memphis, TN. That mall was a huge two story mall. At one time, it was the largest mall in the southeastern United States. The mall opened in 1981. By the late 1990s, crime in the parking lot had reached such a level that people were afraid to go to the mall. It was dubbed "The Mall of Murder".. The mall tried to make their property safer by beefing up security, but it was a lost cause. The mall began to close down in 2001.. It was demolished in 2004..
Here's a link to a Wiki piece about the mall....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mall_of_Memphis |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 12:17 AM on 10.16.08 |
| ->> They obviously have the right. The key to getting something shot would be to use a point and shoot and look like "Joe the plumber". |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 12:58 AM on 10.16.08 |
->> The reason why mall policies forbid photo is because competition between stores in the mall within the same retail sector is fierce.
Justified or not, corporate owners of mall stores are afraid that competing stores will try to obtain their lines of clothes, lower prices to beat or match their own, build displays that are more enticing based on the display they have.
Last mall based establishment I worked at, bi-weekly price checks of all the stores the carried the same merchandise was required by either the store manager or an assistant. During the holiday season, we scoped the competition on a daily basis and adjusted our prices when necessary to match anybody lower than our own.
A pen and a notebook is just as forbidden. Try walking into a clothing store and take a few notes. You will be asked to put it away by store employees or escorted out of the building by mall security. We had to memorize prices, walk into the common area and write down. If someone was in our store writing and they were not from corporate or the mall staff, we politely showed them the door.
By the way, it is not just cameras or pen and paper either. Take a drawing pad and sit down in the commons area and start drawing a store front.... you will be shown the door as well.
Competition and paranoia is the reason you can't take pictures or a camera into a mall. And, yes it is considered private property in most states. If you need complete an assignment on mall property, simply call the mall office and state your purpose. Once in a while they will allow you to shoot inside with several dozen conditions attached that make a NCAA division I cred look like a bedtime story. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:18 AM on 10.16.08 |
->> "Sidewalks are generally not private. You can't keep members of the public from standing on the sidewalk in front of your house. The same rule usually applies to streets with commercial buildings."
Funny, try to tell this to some Schmuck that trips and falls in the sidewalk in front of your house when he tries to sue you for everything you have and you will ever make!! Sidewalks might be public, but they are part of your liability!!
I did a job at the Jefferson City mall back in 05, boy, what a dump!!! I went directly to the Security office, asked permission, got an escort, did the job and left!! That was it!! It took less than 30 minutes for the whole thing. It was worth the extra 5 minutes to ask for permission than to argue with a Ignorant Rent-A-Cop!! |
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James Madelin, Photographer
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AKL | Auckland | New Zealand | Posted: 1:34 AM on 10.16.08 |
->> not sure if this is relevant to US law, but here in NZ and i think in the UK, the key is that malls are freely accessible by the public. that means that although it may be private, a photographer can shoot all they want at a mall.
i have often been challenged on this and simply ask the security guards to call the police for me. they always back down. |
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N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
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Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 2:12 AM on 10.16.08 |
->> Actually Gary, before you pat yourself on the back for standing up for management, We DID have permission. If I neglected to say that, then realize I go further to get permission to shoot anywhere outside of my home because I just love quoting private property vs public property. But strangely enough at this incident, the reporter and I were revoked after we got there and it was messy. The personal whims of the ex when finding out I was the shooter played in and, while it wasn't said, AT THE TIME, I knew.
And, seeing how they have behaved since over the years to other photographers, heck, even my wife, whose best friend is manager at another mall in Mesa, AZ brags about the way they treat media that don't represent EXACTLY what they want seen about them.
I think I can say they were Nazi jerks. |
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