| Sign in: |
| Members log in here with your user name and password to access the your admin page and other special features. |
|
|
|
|
|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
One newspapers "plan" to survive
Kevin Sperl, Photographer
 |
Gilford | nh | USA | Posted: 2:15 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> This "appeal" to readers appears in one of our local papers this week.
Full disclosure: I recently left this same paper after almost 2 years. They have not replaced my position nor did they replace the person who left before me.
"We are seeking submissions from our readers in an effort to bring you more of the news you’re looking for. We will gladly accept quality photos and stories and will print them based on space and reader interest. As we no longer have a staff sports reporter, we are particularly hoping to see coaches, parents, and even players send in photos,
game stories or stats. Teachers are encouraged to send in school news. As your local weekly paper,
we strive to bring you community news and features that will keep you informed about everything
from board meetings to school sports and activities. We will continue to cover our towns to the best
of our ability, but with help from our readers, we think we can build a better community newspaper with more of the news that you want to see." |
|
N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
 |
Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 2:36 PM on 09.17.08 |
| ->> classic... |
|
Mike Brice, Photographer
 |
Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 3:22 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> Unfortunately, there plan will probably work.
People will flock to purchase or read stories (well-written or not) by coaches, parents, etc...
Advertising will increase, and they just saved a ton a money from your salary/benefits.
Quality does not always equal profit. |
|
Kevin Leas, Photographer, Assistant
 |
Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 3:32 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> Kevin,
Sadly, that's new. Maybe the blatant begging for it is, but it's how many papers run.
Reader submitted content is becoming huge for newspapers, and for two reasons. One: it doesn't cost the paper a dime. Two: it gives the readers a way to show off whatever it is that they want. Our main paper here has all sorts of photo galleries, vacation columns, and other things that are really nothing more than ways for people to brag about themselves. Makes the readers feel important, and keeps the payroll down.
Welcome to the future of journalism. |
|
Andrew Carpenean, Photographer
 |
Laramie | WY | USA | Posted: 3:35 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> Mike,
I think you just hit the nail on the head, unfortunately. How sad of an appeal. |
|
Michael Fischer, Photographer
 |
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 4:10 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> There's no disgrace in pulling the plug. It would probably be better.
This is sad..so sad. Our society loses in the long haul. |
|
Daniel Bates, Photographer
 |
Fayetteville | NC | | Posted: 4:34 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> Correct me if I read it wrong, but did that "appeal" roughly translate to:
"We cut some salaried positions and we want you, the public, to do their jobs for free."
In any other industry, this would be ludicrous. |
|
Kevin Sperl, Photographer
|
Gilford | nh | USA | Posted: 4:56 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> Daniel,
I believe you read it just right. I will be interested to hear what the readership reaction is as I run into them while building my new venture.
Kevin |
|
Jon L Hendricks, Photographer
 |
Hobart | IN | USA | Posted: 5:03 PM on 09.17.08 |
| ->> So, papers are pretty much just becoming a forum board for readers. They write in and read their own stories. Then people comment on their "posts." Newspapers need something more for advertisers to come. They need relevant and timely information organized by paid individuals. It will fail if the papers depend on reader submissions for anything interesting. |
|
Bryon Houlgrave, Photographer
 |
Waukesha | Wi | USA | Posted: 5:08 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> I would hope that the novelty of writing/shooting for a newspaper who demands free product under the guise of "You News" wears off soon. I can't imagine a lot of coaches placing a ton of emphasis on deadline after a grueling game. Not when there's stats and video to go over after the games.
Quality journalism comes into the spotlight too on the spin each story is given by the author. If Coach Schmoe ends up losing the big game, do you think he/she is going to give a rats ass about balanced and credible journalism?
But maybe that's what this NH newspaper, and papers thinking about following suit, want. Just some words for the community by the community. Who cares about content.
I'm sure my kids would love to rave about their elementary school science projects. That qualifies as "You News," doesn't it? They're not perfect spellers, but the newspapers are keeping its copy editing positions, so who really needs to know how to spell tyrannosaurus? |
|
Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
 |
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 8:30 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> Some of the basic values of a newspaper are that skilled editors and writers produce stories that are engaging, trustworthy, presented well and appeal to a significant segment of the community.
A paper with anything more than a small percentage of citizen-produced content would quickly devolve into a collection of items written by people with minimal storytelling skills and read only by their immediate circle of family and friends.
What the general public produces is self-serving and, with few exceptions, not very readable.
If you can't afford to employ professional journalists, you might as well get out of the business today rather than wait for the inevitable Chapter 7 liquidation.
--Mark |
|
Michael Fischer, Photographer
|
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 9:02 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> Matt,
Interesting link :)
Mark, what you recommend is similar to what I wrote. Problem is, either way, it takes courage. And if they had that in the first place, we wouldn't be having this discussion. |
|
Rob Edwards, Photographer
 |
Peru | IN | United States | Posted: 9:24 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> I'm glad to see this post. I have a question that is similar to this thread.
I recenlty was terminated from my position as a photographer after working for the company for 15 plus years. I was told that it was a business decision. I was able to find another job within the same company.
Now the reporters, news clerk, managing editor and publisher are all shooting photos--it is funny how it takes seven people to do the job of one photographer.
My question is this, how are those newspaper doing with having the reporters and others shooting photos for the paper?
Thanks, |
|
Aaron Rhoads, Photographer
 |
McComb | MS | USA | Posted: 9:25 PM on 09.17.08 |
| ->> They're next appeal will be for readers to edit, layout, print and deliver the newspaper. |
|
Jeff Stanton, Photographer
 |
Atown | USA | USA | Posted: 9:48 PM on 09.17.08 |
| ->> WANTED: General surgeons. If you've ever envisioned yourself in the operating room saving lives and making a difference, then this job might be for you. No experience necessary. We train. Must provide own scalpel. Must be at least a high school graduate with a steady hand and willing to learn. Excellent opportunity. We offer an hourly wage and bonus plan, 401K, two weeks vacation the first year and profit sharing plan. Fax resume or drop off at the front desk. No phone calls. |
|
Kevin Sperl, Photographer
|
Gilford | nh | USA | Posted: 9:58 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> Rob,
As a photographer I've often wondered what the readers tolerance for "bad" photography is. Readers will write in response to articles but I've never seen a reader write to the editor to complain about the quality of a photo.
I'm convinced that we shooters look at photos differently and that readers of newspapers really don't give it much thought. |
|
Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
 |
Nashville | TN | U.S. | Posted: 9:59 PM on 09.17.08 |
| ->> The reason I subscribe to a newspaper is because it is produced on every level by professionals. I find the articles very well engaging at times, and I expect the photography to show me something that I was not expecting. The moment my local paper stops doing this, I will discontinue my subscription. |
|
Walter Calahan, Photographer
|
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 10:13 PM on 09.17.08 |
| ->> Just throw ink on paper and sell it as fish wrap. Get rid of all the journalists, especially those anti-social copy editors. HA! |
|
Mike Brice, Photographer
|
Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 10:15 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> Our standards are much higher than the public.
Most of the public doesn't care and has such a low level of "Good" that about any shot from a point and shoot or even a cell phone will do.
And Jeff - I think this proves that hey, this isn't brain surgery, about anyone can do it with a little practice. Sure it might not rise to the quality level we expect, but it will be good enough to fill that hole on the page. |
|
Rob Edwards, Photographer
|
Peru | IN | United States | Posted: 10:18 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> Kevin
Many readers have mentioned to me that they don't like the product that is being produced. I wonder how long they will put up with blurry, out of focus, back-lit and photos that you can't really tell who is in them.
In our town there is not other outlet for local stories or photos.
I guess another questions would be, how long will it take for the publisher and other higher management to realize that the product that is being produced, is not what it was when they had a full-time shooter? |
|
Kevin Seale, Photographer
 |
Crawfordsville | IN | United States | Posted: 11:09 PM on 09.17.08 |
->> "I wonder how long they will put up with blurry, out of focus, back-lit and photos that you can't really tell who is in them."
How long have they been putting up with great photos that are out of register, over inked, with 300% dot gain making it so you can't really tell who is in them? |
|
David Harpe, Photographer
 |
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 11:22 PM on 09.17.08 |
| ->> If true, then future "newspapers" just need to be renamed "newsletters", because that's all they'll be. |
|
Chris Curry, Photographer
|
Norfolk | VA | USA | Posted: 12:31 AM on 09.18.08 |
->> If a news organization uses reader submissions as stories how can we trust the validity of the content?
Has it been fact checked?
Have all sides been reported?
Also, are they not giving special interest groups an opportunity to publish their own one-sided agenda?
What a horrible decision.
They would serve the community better to close shop. |
|
Paul Jordan, Photographer
 |
Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 8:36 AM on 09.18.08 |
->> Byron wrote: "I would hope that the novelty of writing/shooting for a newspaper who demands free product under the guise of "You News" wears off soon. I can't imagine a lot of coaches placing a ton of emphasis on deadline after a grueling game. Not when there's stats and video to go over after the games"
Byron, my take is that yes, the "novelty" will wear off on individuals. After Joe/Jane Smith's third photo is published, most folks start thinking "Hey! I'm doing this for free and they charge for this paper!". The "problem" I think will be more a question of will the potential pool of "three photo joes" run out anytime soon? I worry it will just be a revolving cast until the end of all time.
As for your point #2, you are dead correct, as someone with a full time job along with coaching a HS team, I can tell you it takes all I can muster to simply fact-check the stats after a game and call the highlights into the paper and TV newsrooms. |
|
Curtis Clegg, Photographer
 |
Belvidere | IL | USA | Posted: 9:11 AM on 09.18.08 |
->> "Unfettered 'Citizen Journalism' Too Risky" - by David Hazinski in the Atlanta Journal Constitution on 12/13/07:
http://tinyurl.com/6dccy6
"Supporters of 'citizen journalism' argue it provides independent, accurate, reliable information that the traditional media don't provide. While it has its place, the reality is it really isn't journalism at all, and it opens up information flow to the strong probability of fraud and abuse. The news industry should find some way to monitor and regulate this new trend." |
|
Gary Mills, Photographer
 |
Culver | IN | USA | Posted: 9:16 AM on 09.18.08 |
->> Who is the paper going to call, or rely on, if there is serious news such as a train wreck, explosion or natural disaster at 3 a.m.?
Will the local police allow one of these PWC (persons with camera) "inside the lines" if they claim they are shooting for the paper?
More importantly, when one of these PWC's is injured covering an event, who will be sued first?
This is very sad.
Many newspapers now only rub off on our hands and not our minds. |
|
Margaret Bowles, Photographer
 |
Houston | TX | | Posted: 10:40 AM on 09.18.08 |
| ->> I was interested in the reader photos submitted to the Houston Chronicle.com during the hurricane to compare them to the staff photos. The Chronicle has some of the best photographers in the country, so I was curious whether any of the reader photos could pass as professional. It did my heart good to see that not one of the reader photos came close to making the grade. While each staff photo was composed to tell a story, the reader photos were just snapshots, poorly composed, badly framed, ignorant of light and exposure--and these were the best of the hundreds that were sent in. I'm sure very few readers understand the difference in quality or even care, but I for one won't be reading a paper that only uses citizen photographs. It insults my intelligence to look at a photo shot through a car window where the sideview mirror is part of the photo. |
|
Mike Brice, Photographer
|
Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 10:55 AM on 09.18.08 |
->> One thing to remember is that we are talking about a weekly paper - they have not covered serious news in decades - so the breaking news issue isn't really a concern to them.
They are concerned with keeping readership numbers up so that advertisers see that the paper is being read and talked about around town.
Weekly papers have long skimped on staff - this paper is just taking it to the next level. |
|
David Harpe, Photographer
|
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 10:56 AM on 09.18.08 |
->> The business of gathering news for a print publication just does not work from a numbers perspective anymore. You can't make enough money on the web to support a meaningful web-only local news operation. Ads on the web are not profitable enough, and people won't pay for subscriptions.
That leaves television with a web presence, which is where all of this is headed. Television still has a profitable non-web revenue stream, they already have state-of-the-art newsgathering capability, and repurposing for the web is no big deal. This is why Tribune and others are slamming newspapers and TV stations together as fast as they can. What's more, the way TV produces stories fits perfectly with the soundbite culture of today, so the audience will love it.
Magazines MIGHT be able to survive as an in-depth outlet, but daily print is gone. |
|
John Germ, Photographer
 |
Wadsworth | Oh | USA | Posted: 12:19 PM on 09.18.08 |
->> For what it's worth, one of the local major daily papers in my area started a 'reader submitted' trend about 2 years ago. They had a section once a week in sports and then it increased to twice a week. I believe it's back to once a week and considerably smaller. Also, last time I looked at the website there was significantly less user-submitted photos and those that were there were pretty poor quality.
I think the thrill quickly wears off for Joe Public. They're not getting front page of the sports section and the photos really do look poor compared to the pro work. There are certainly gems in there as well. But, again, I think it wears off. When people aren't getting the adulation they thought they would from friends, not getting any money, etc. there's less reason to go thru the trouble. And, I think what you get is the one, maybe two good hobbyist photographers submitting stuff are covering the same school all the time. Which isn't of much interest to readers that don't care about that team.
That's really the reason it won't work, IMO. You want photos that tie to stories - stories are about the big games of the week. Not about the team that has a mom or dad with some ability as a sports shooter. |
|
Jeff Brehm, Photographer, Photo Editor
 |
Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 1:09 PM on 09.18.08 |
| ->> I hope that we'll eventually see the market do what it so often does -- prompts new products to fill a void or niche. Newspapers are not delivering what people want, so here's a novel idea -- a competitor takes advantage of the low cost of startup using desktop and digital technology and launches a real newspaper, with journalists and stories actually worth reading. Why, it's brilliant! Businesses might want to advertise in something they know people read. What a radical new business plan! |
|
Kevin Sperl, Photographer
|
Gilford | nh | USA | Posted: 1:38 PM on 09.18.08 |
->> Parker:
from that msnbc troll for photos.
"you grant MSNBC and NBC News an irrevocable royalty-free, worldwide right, in all media (now known or later developed) to use, publish, alter or otherwise exploit your Submission"
I love the word "alter" in this paragraph. At least they admit to exploiting the submitter..... |
|
Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
|
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 11:20 PM on 09.18.08 |
->> David,
The problem with relying solely on TV for local news is that most of their stories originate from newspapers. TV can't afford to do comprehensive local news independently.
--Mark |
|
David Harpe, Photographer
|
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 9:28 AM on 09.19.08 |
->> The problem with relying solely on TV for local news is that most of their stories originate from newspapers. TV can't afford to do comprehensive local news independently.
Source on this? I know that's what newspaper people like to tell themselves while watching the reporter primp for a live shot. But in our market this is absolutely not true. Sometimes TV chases the newspaper, sometimes it's the opposite. I've seen it both ways. Not too long ago an air conditioning unit on the top of the newspaper building caught on fire with lots of billowing black smoke. You know how the newsroom found out about it? They saw it on a TV live shot from a helicopter about three minutes before the fire alarm sounded.
TV is just like any other medium - some stations do in-depth better than others. In our market the local FOX outlet does a great job and quite often spends time investigating things the newspaper doesn't even touch. But they're also an oddity in that they have a one-hour format at 4pm and 10pm, so they don't directly compete with the "big three" and can spend more time on stories.
Again it all depends on your market, but having worked in TV news for several years I can tell you from experience that news directors don't sit around and read the morning newspaper to figure out what their rundown will be for the day. Sure they check it to see if they missed anything, but have you ever been in a newspaper newsroom when the 5pm news comes on? There's a crowd around the TV monitors if it's a big news day...and the newspaper newsroom constantly uses TV for guidance during spot news, weather and sports. So who is the bigger parasite?
The bigger issue is that traditional, all-at-once in-depth reporting seems to be going the way of buggy whips, regardless of the medium. It's being replaced by a much more realtime, watch-it-as-it-develops mode of reporting. Instead of seeing the results of a two month investigation as a six-page story at the end, you're seeing daily updates as the investigation is being done. The web encourages this because of the advertising model. It's all about page views, and if you can string along an audience for two months you get far more page views than a one-time six page story.
There are pluses and minuses to either approach. Hopefully we end up with a middle that still informs the public in a useful, comprehensive way. |
|
Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
|
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 1:42 PM on 09.19.08 |
->> David,
I was referring to general news -- not spot news. While there are exceptions to every rule, TV staff, out of necessity, are weighted toward technical folks. They simply can't afford to field the number of street reporters that newspapers can.
My source is my three decades of experience in major market journalism -- including print, broadcast, online and citizen journalism.
But neither print nor broadcast can take their current models into the future. News is quickly becoming a conglomeration of broadcast, print and community interaction.
--Mark |
|
D. Ross Cameron, Photographer
 |
Oakland | CA | USA | Posted: 2:23 PM on 09.19.08 |
->> Wow! Finally! A chance for me to write a 100-inch feature (with accompanying lit portraits) about my cats!
Where's this paper again? I smell Pulitzer!
Feline-ally,
DRC |
|
David Harpe, Photographer
|
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 9:59 PM on 09.19.08 |
->> Mark,
What you said was TV gets their stories from newspapers and does very little original reporting. That is what I am disagreeing with...both in terms of spot news and also in-depth.
TV does their thing, newspapers do their thing. TV does not read an in-depth story in the newspaper and say, "Hey, we oughta do a story on that."
When the local newspaper recently did a nice multipart story on uninsured youths, TV did not go out and do a similar story. Likewise when a local TV station did a multipart investigative story about a few million dollars in taxpayer dollars that went missing instead of rebuilding a school into a retirement home, you didn't see that story in the paper. Both mediums do investigative reporting, and TV does a lot more of it than you imply. |
|
Sean D. Elliot, Photographer, Photo Editor
 |
Norwich | CT | USA | Posted: 7:41 AM on 09.20.08 |
->> Every TV market is different. I know here in CT Mark sure has TV pegged. They may not parrot the newspaper on every story, but I can generally watch the evening news and see stories I read in the daily paper that morning. A couple of our local TV stations actually have partnerships with local papers where they cross promote (meaning TV gets some advance word on what the paper is doing and can do it themselves) but mostly the TV assignment editors just read the papers and decide which stories can be done the next day. It' not unreasonable, one story in my paper only gets read in my local area, TV does it and turns it into a state story and only the readers of my paper have any clue that TV is a day-late.
which when it comes right down to it, really isn't germane to the whole discussion of a weekly paper relying on reader content ... so how did we get off track? |
|
Walter Calahan, Photographer
|
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 8:18 AM on 09.20.08 |
->> Ross
You my smell Pulitzer.
I smell kitty litter.
Do they give Purrlitzers for cat reporting?
Grin |
|
|| Sponsor Special Deals
SB-900 TTL AF Shoe Mount Speedlight
|
Available from:
Samy's Camera
|
Price: $499.95 |
Notes:
The SB-900 i-TTL Speedlight leads the Nikon Creative Lighting System delivering the portability, power and versatility to support any photographer's creative lighting imagination. SportsShooter.com users should call 866-726-9463 to get the special SportsShooter price.
|
|
-- More Info -- |
|
Return to --> Message Board Main Index
|
