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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Photo credit-where, when & why?
Matt Cashore, Photographer
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South Bend | IN | USA | Posted: 8:29 AM on 09.16.08 |
| ->> I need help formulating an eloquent and informed response to why it's appropriate to single out certain members of a team for individual credits (photographers, writers) but not credit the proofreader, page designer, press people, etc., etc.. All I can come up with is "Uhhhh... Because..." When I see an editorial photo in a magazine, I expect to see photo credit, but when I see an ad photo with a photo credit it's sort of unexpected and weird. So I'm throwin' the question out there to sportsshooterland. Help me be a better educator on the 'where, when & why' of photo credits. |
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Gary Mills, Photographer
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Culver | IN | USA | Posted: 9:13 AM on 09.16.08 |
->> For the most part, I always thought a credit for an editorial photo was in lieu of big advertising bucks, and most commercial photographers who shoot national and international ad campaigns have huge budgets in lieu of needing a credit.
Writers often get a byline but I don't know about other staffers.
Maybe it's because they have a nice office, health benefits, 401k, and make more in a year than some freelancer who may spend most of their year shooting quarter page photos for a few hundred dollars. |
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David Bailey, Photographer
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Flower Mound | TX | USA | Posted: 9:39 AM on 09.16.08 |
| ->> Creative always gets credits and bylines and behind the scenes player don't. It's not the film industry where everyone down to the janitor gets a cedit. Don't want to waste precious print space with extra names. And, it's part of the contract to use the images/stories. |
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Javier Gonzalez, Photographer
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Mayaguez | PR | Puerto Rico | Posted: 9:58 AM on 09.16.08 |
->> I'll try to answer this with my language limitations from my point of view...
Writers, and photographers build messages using different medium. Writers use text to tell the readers ideas and iformation, photographers do the same but using visual images to transmit information. Both works on original messages and carry responsibility on it.
On the other hand, proofreader, page designer, press people, etc are working with "messages" made by others. They are only finishing the publication as a product.
Credits are for identification. Who says what. In journalism this is important when we talk about credibility. Who gave the iformation, the facts,opinion (in case of colums), etc. In journalism who designed the page, or who made corrections to text (in grammar, style, etc.) is not important to readers. Is the same with the person who edited a photograph.
In case of Ad images, I think the credit only wants to identify who made the photographs as a piece of art, or a design work. Not as a message.
Hope this help to understand this topic. |
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David Gordon, Photographer
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Somerville | MA | United States | Posted: 10:26 AM on 09.16.08 |
->> IMHO, its a matter of authorship.
For editorial especially, the writer/photographer is the author, even though the material may have been proofread or color corrected by someone else. At the end of the day, its still the author's work, and thus, should be credited as such.
As for commercial material, I agree with what Gary said, but would add that most commercial material (photos, layout, text, etc.) is created from the aggregate ideas spawned by a small army, not one single person. So, crediting all of the "authors" on an add campaign would be, at very least, unwieldy. Further, the photographer/copy writer/art director/stylist/etc. are similar to ghost writers, who also aren't given credit for their work. The reason being obvious...they are being paid to be behind the scene. Its less a matter of pay relative to their editorial neighbors, and more an issue of job description. When a company hires me to shoot an ad campaign, they are hiring me to express their ideas, not mine, and thus, I am not the owner (even though I retain the copyrights...don't yell at me...this isn't a discussion of copyright ownership). |
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Rich Cruse, Photographer
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Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 11:20 AM on 09.16.08 |
->> Sometimes photo credit in ad work is part of the negotiation. Let's say they want to pay you X but you want more than that. Sometimes having the client include photo credit (thus providing you with added publicity) will help make up the difference in the pay.
On the other side, sometimes the client wants to publicize the photographer they are using and will choose to include photo credit. |
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Ronnie Montgomery, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 11:27 AM on 09.16.08 |
| ->> Okay, then riddle me this Batman. If photo credit is supposed to pertain to authorship then why is AP given photo credit in those cases where they only serve as an intermediary? I've lost count of the number of times I've seen an AP photo credit on pictures taken by NASA. For example, photos from onboard the space shuttle and photos taken using the Hubble telescope. There is no way the AP has photographers on the space shuttle and last time I checked none of the astronauts is stringing for AP on the side. |
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Jim Comeau, Student/Intern, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 11:39 AM on 09.16.08 |
| ->> AP = anonymous photographer :) |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 4:13 PM on 09.16.08 |
->> Ronnie,
Because it's easier for the production people to stick "AP" on every AP photo than to figure out the individual photographer's name.
--Mark |
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Ronnie Montgomery, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 5:58 PM on 09.16.08 |
->> Mark,
It may be easier, but it's not right. Besides, how hard is it to put "NASA photo" instead of "AP photo" It can't be that hard for an editor to figure out that AP didn't take a photo from onboard the shuttle or international space station.
This thread is a discussion of who should get photo credit and what I was pointing out is that it isn't always about who created the photo as to who gets credit. Although it should be.
Personally I think newspapers attributing everything to the agency that provided them the photo is sloppy and lazy. Or, if it's the AP not tagging the photo correctly then shame on them.
It used to be that the newspaper I subscribe to would only put "AP Photo" on pictures, yet when they ran a story from the AP they would credit both AP and the writer's name. They finally changed their ways and started listing the photographer's names as well. That's progress but publications could and should do more to attribute photos correctly. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 1:40 AM on 09.17.08 |
->> Ronnie,
It's a holdover from the cold type days when the paste-up folks would run out a whole bunch of generic AP photo credits.
I agree that it ain't right, but that's what happens in a word-centric organization. It takes a lot of pounding to make changes.
--Mark |
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Silas Crews, Photographer
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Amsterdam | North Holland | NL | Posted: 9:15 AM on 10.13.08 |
->> I just encountered this issue with a prospective employer. I'm in talks with a lifestyle magazine publisher about primarily shooting video but also doing some photography for his magazine. In our initial test phase of working together, he mentioned that if he hired me full-time that the credit, for work I produce, should only go to his magazine. I wouldn't be allowed to state anywhere in the video, that I produced and/or edited it.
I said I didn't quite understand his rationale that if I work for him he owns my authorship? I'm not just slapping together his ideas with his tools and workspace. I'm shooting and editing. I'm telling stories. I'm developing content. He said to me, "well, what am I paying you for?" I think he's paying me for my time. Not the right to claim that what I create should only be known as produced by his magazine. I guess he has the right to run his company anyway he sees fit but this doesn't feel right to me.
On top of that, I am working with my own equipment and software. Nearly everything I produce is of an editorial nature. And in our talks about working full-time, there hasn't been mention of a salary that's worth my anonymity.
This is a young start-up company and the publisher comes from a business background. From my understanding he has very little experience in the editorial field. Perhaps we don't agree since we come from much different backgrounds? I must admit I was a little dumb-founded to why I was a offended and why my instinct was against not crediting the author.
How do I politely explain to him that I think what he is asking is disrespectful and lacks integrity? And if he still is not persuaded is this an issue worth not taking a job over? |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 8:04 PM on 10.13.08 |
->> Silas,
Everything's negotiable. Make it clear that credit is customary in your part of the business and that you are considering a relatively low amount of pay only with the assumption that you will be given industry-standard credit.
--Mark |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 8:16 PM on 10.13.08 |
| ->> Photographers create, press operators do not. |
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John Bowersmith, Photographer
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Lubbock | Tx | USA | Posted: 9:49 PM on 10.13.08 |
->> I think of it like a check.
I put my name on my work as my seal of approval, much the same way I sign a check assuring I wrote it and I have the money to cover it.
I made the image, I have the money.
The bank doesn't provide any money to pay whoever it is I wrote the check to. The bank's name is on the check, but your newspaper's name is on every page too. They don't list the name of the bank president, branch manager or teller on the check.
So this is why there is no need to list everyone in the publication process, it isn't their money, it isn't their work. |
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