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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Strobing Volleyball
Christopher Kays, Photographer
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Benton | IL | USA | Posted: 3:27 AM on 09.11.08 |
->> I have been trying to get in contact with people who strobe volleyball and haven't had much luck. I am hoping that a member would be able to gives me some tips on the best angles and such.
HELP PLEASE! |
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
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Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 9:30 AM on 09.11.08 |
->> Like anything else, the question is where do you want your light?
Short story: We have White Lightnings in our arena. One of the units began to fail, which meant only 3 of 4 lights were going off. What the equipment failure did for me was show how nice the light might be if the strobes didn't fire at full power.
So when I finally had the light pulled and repaired, it went back up with the light set to fire at half power rather than full power. I also used the lift and set the opposite corner to fire at half power as well.
Like in portrait photography, I found the photos to be improved if they had highlight and shadow. Changing the lighting ratio helped enhance the contrast. This has helped improve our photos when the are converted to black and white for publication. |
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Chris Peterson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbia Falls | MT | USA | Posted: 10:33 AM on 09.11.08 |
->> I light with either two Alien Bee 800s bounced into the ceiling or with an sb-28 and sb-25 super clamped to wherever it's handy above the court, both at half power, aimed at the court (about the top of the net). I used Pocket Wizards to fire them, and you can cheat a little with the D300 and sync it at 1/320th of second ... the tippy top of the frame will darken, but then there's usually nothing up there to begin with. Most gyms in Montana are caves, so the ISO is set at 1250 or 800, but the D300 chunks out such a nice file, it doesn't matter. With this light setup, you can get two or three well-lit shots in a row. The strobes will recycle as fast the camera. Both lights are on the same side of the gym so I can work both sides of the net. I usually shoot from the balcony or from the floor. We have virtually no crowds, so you can just stand in the stands.
Does that help? |
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Bryan Crowe, Photographer
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Fullerton | CA | US | Posted: 1:13 AM on 09.12.08 |
| ->> I recently hung 4 WL X1600s in Titan Gym at CSUF. Their set at full which gets me ISO 200 F5.6 < 1/250th on the MK2 and ISO 320 f4 1/500th on the MK1. Still have some kinks to work out with aiming the lights but am overall pretty happy.There is still ball motion blur but that seems unavoidable.Examples from the first two shoots.http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/682477/0#6132186 |
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Samuel Lewis, Photographer
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Miami | FL | USA | Posted: 7:43 AM on 09.12.08 |
| ->> I've used both speedos and WL's, and there are pros and cons with each depending upon the arena and the sensitivity of the athletes. E-mail me directly and I'll try to answer your questions. |
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Alex Cena, Photographer
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Scotch Plains | NJ | USA | Posted: 8:17 AM on 09.12.08 |
->> I always try to set up opposite the players but that is not always possible. My set up is almost always based on where I can set up given the layout of the gym, access to railings, outlets, etc. I use anywhere from 3-4 Dynalite 4080 SPs mated to M2000er packs set to a quarter power. With three, I place one at each corner of the sideline on the same side and another pointing straight across the net. This enables me to shoot pretty much anywhere along that side. Most people like to bounce off the ceiling for flatter and more even lighting, but I like the more dramatic effect of direct lighting so I just try to gt my lights up as high as possible
With this set up I am at about 1/250th, f/5.6 at 400 ISO.
Here is a sample:
http://pa.photoshelter.com/img-show/I0000Ib7G.4gBSEo
More details on my set up. Far from perfect but works for me.
http://njsportsimages.net/2007/11/30/shooting-sports-indoors/ |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 3:58 AM on 09.13.08 |
| ->> As we say constantly during the editing and critique sessions during the Sports Shooter workshops ... BACKGROUNDS, BACKGROUNDS, BACKGROUNDS!!! |
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Dirk Dewachter, Photographer
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Playa Del Rey | CA | USA | Posted: 4:19 AM on 09.13.08 |
| ->> Bert, you forgot TIGHTER, TIGHTER, TIGHTER!!! |
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Roger Ogden, Photographer
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Brookline | NH | USA | Posted: 10:24 AM on 09.13.08 |
->> I have 2 alien bee 800's that I put on stands. I sandbag them so they don't tip over when a spike or errant serve hits them at 40mph. The warmups are the most dangerous time. I trigger them with PWs. I put both strobes on one end of the court, typically against the back wall. (You didn't say if you're strobing in a high school gym or a large arena) I bounce them off the ceiling to soften the light. I aim them about 1/2 way to the net to try to illuminate the team on the far side of the net. I try to get 3 stops above ambient so there's no blur, but in reality I end up with about 2 stops. I have ball blur in my shots. I seem to remember a thread or two that point towards the alien bees as the problem, but my memory may be faulty. I shoot hitters from the same end with my strobes. Sometimes shooting under the net to get passers works, but there's lots of potential bodies in the way for a high percentage of success. Usually, I shoot passing from the side somewhere around even with the net. If there's access to a high location where I can be above the net, I shoot at least part of a game from there. Lots of folks here seem to really dislike the look of the high angle shot. Personally, I like it, but this wonderful line of work is a part time gig for me.
You can see some fairly old stuff here:
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=06MC00CU000000&po=0 |
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
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Belvidere | IL | USA | Posted: 11:24 AM on 09.13.08 |
->> I'm curious to know whether people use modifiers on their ABs or White Lightnings.
Who uses the regular 7" reflectors, and who uses the 11" "long throw" ones for sports?
http://www.alienbees.com/11r.html
Also, would using modifiers like honeycombs reduce the amount of distracting reflections/glare to which spectators and coaches might object, or is that a non-issue? I plan to start strobing volleyball soon and I'd like to be able to address coaches' concerns (if any) as they arise. |
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Scott Gardner, Photographer
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Athens | OH | USA | Posted: 8:08 PM on 09.13.08 |
->> Curtis,
My lights (two WL's and two Elinchroms) are about 80 feet above the floor and the only reflectors I have ever used are the 11 inch reflector from Paul Buff on the WL's (which would be the same for Alien Bees) and the Elinchrom 48 degree High Performance reflector. There still is A LOT of spill light into the stands with the WL's and not as much with the Elinchrom reflector. I have thought of trying using a modifier to reduce the spill. As far as distraction, since it comes from the catwalk, no one has complained yet in the ten years I've strobed volleyball. |
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Roger Ogden, Photographer
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Brookline | NH | USA | Posted: 10:23 PM on 09.13.08 |
| ->> I use the 11's |
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Samuel Lewis, Photographer
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Miami | FL | USA | Posted: 8:40 AM on 09.14.08 |
| ->> I've used both. Originally, with X2400 units, the 11" proved too bright and we received complaints from the players. With the 7", the complaints stopped. As the 2400 units died, they were replaced with 1600 units, and now we're using the 11" again. |
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Steve Violette, Photographer
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Gulf Breeze | FL | USA | Posted: 3:48 PM on 09.15.08 |
->> I strobe our HS gym with 4 AB800's with 11" reflectors. Gives me about 2.5 to 3.0 stops over ambient (1/250th f/4 at iso400) Flare is an issue with the fans - home coach has no problems - visiting coaches complain. I strap 13 ft light stands to the hand railings at the top of the steps in the stands. The lights are about 8 feet behind the baseline - I bounce off the ceiling aiming each light at the opposite side of the net to cover each end
When shooting from the floor, I generally need to turn off the light in the opposite corner because of flare - any other suggestions would be appreciated
Steve |
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Scott Evans, Photographer
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Bay Village | OH | USA | Posted: 11:04 PM on 09.16.08 |
| ->> I go the cheap and easy route for hoops (dont shoot vb, but its got to be similar in terms of setup). I fire a couple of speedlites using Elinchrom Skyports. I mount them as high as possible using a couple superclamps and try to mount as far apart as possible fanning them about 7-8' over the top of the key (top of the net in your case). Settings wise, I'll typically use 1/2 power at 50mm zoom +/-. On camera, 1/250, f3.2 (stopping down slightly seems to crisp things up nicely and ISO will generally fall in the 800ish zone. Bear in mind, the camera settings will have much less effect than changing the flash output. The key here is getting your flash over ambient to avoid ghosting. If you prefer TTL, use FEC to get the flash output right then tweak ISO until the histogram starts looking good. |
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Dennis Wierzbicki, Photographer
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Plainfield | IL | USA | Posted: 1:56 PM on 09.18.08 |
| ->> Scott - to clarify your comment (as I know you already know): "If you prefer TTL, use FEC to get the flash output right then tweak ISO until the histogram starts looking good", this was intended for on-camera flash only. Most radio triggers don't transmit TTL info to remote flashes/strobes (I know, I know, I said most). |
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Juliann Tallino, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Port Townsend/Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 8:19 PM on 09.18.08 |
->> Hey Chris,
I'm with Scott, cheap and easy and it works just as well as the spendy gear, I use a couple of vivitar 285hv's, same set-up I use for basketball. I used to get them as high up as possible on either side of the net to light one side of the court, but another shooter has a set up that works better, he puts two lights (nikon speedlites) on the same side of the court in each corner and lights both sides of the net/court. He tries to put the lights behind the official so they don't really notice them as much. Then he just shoots from that side of the gym, the kids rotate through so you can get shots of everyone even if you stay on the one side, especially with them switching courts every few minutes. The key though is to get the lights as high as possible so you avoid nasty shadows and try getting the light spread as even as possible. |
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Scott Evans, Photographer
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Bay Village | OH | USA | Posted: 1:23 PM on 09.19.08 |
->> Yeah, I started getting all excited and mixing it all in..if you are off camera, increase the output by either increasing your zoom (although don't go too far with this) or increasing your power level. On camera FEC.
I'll also echo Juli's comments on strobing the same side. I haven't tried this for VB but have done it for hoops with good results and little shadowing. |
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Christopher Kays, Photographer
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Benton | IL | USA | Posted: 4:33 AM on 09.21.08 |
->> Thanks for all the help folks!
Juli has pulled double duty with e-mailing me help on her day off last Saturday! |
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Albert McCracken, Photographer
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East Amherst | NY | USA | Posted: 2:22 PM on 09.21.08 |
->> Juliann:
I seen your photos of "King Holiday Hoopsfest, nice. But was that with Vivitars 285's? |
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Juliann Tallino, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Port Townsend/Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 1:03 AM on 09.22.08 |
->> Hi Albert,
No I hung strobes (white lightnings) up in the cat walk. That was UW and a bit brighter than your average high school gym. :) I guess I need to update my member page soon. ;) |
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Mark Buffalo, Photographer
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Lonoke | AR | USA | Posted: 1:32 AM on 09.22.08 |
->> Chris,
I usually strobe my volleyball games. At one of my schools, I shoot available light now b/c I don't want to mess with setting up the light and I can get about 1/400 sec at 3200 ISO. It isn't bad...it isn't good but for the newspaper, it is okay.
Here is a link to some of the shots with the strobe
http://markbuffalo.blogspot.com/2007/08/hs-volleyball.html
My setup is a single Alien Bee B400 strobe with the 7 inch reflector. I shoot aim it directly at the net and don't bounce. This flash is not really strong enough to bounce except in certain facilities.
For the last three years, I was using an Ebay radio slave, which I got the idea to get from Juliann after seeing her setup several years ago. This past summer, I got a set of PW Plus II transceivers but I haven't strobed this year.
And as Robert said, backgrounds, backgrounds, backgrounds. I'm not always that lucky with my gyms but that is part of shooting HS sports.
Mark |
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Scott Evans, Photographer
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Bay Village | OH | USA | Posted: 10:28 AM on 09.22.08 |
| ->> Mark, do you mount the ab on a stand behind you or much further away? I am surprised by the lack of shadowing with a single direct flash and I gotta say that you sparked my interest. |
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Christine Hochkeppel, Photographer
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Providence | RI | United States | Posted: 12:14 PM on 09.22.08 |
| ->> Any more suggestions for folks like me who are are limited to only speedlights and a set of PWs. I also am confused as how so many of you were able to clamp these strobes so high up. Most of the HS gyms I am in don't have catwalks and no other practical access to the rafters or whatever. The best luck I have had so far is putting my SB800 on a gorilla tripod, wrapping that around a pole in the bleachers pointing it into the ceiling at a very slight angle forward, triggered with PWs. I have a SB600 that I can also trigger with CLS but I haven't messed with that yet, maybe I will for today's game though... |
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Mark Buffalo, Photographer
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Lonoke | AR | USA | Posted: 12:45 PM on 09.22.08 |
->> Scott, I mounted the light on a beam type deal probably about 15 feet or so behind me and about 10 feet above where I was sitting and I got good results.
Mark |
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Scott Evans, Photographer
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Bay Village | OH | USA | Posted: 2:08 PM on 09.22.08 |
| ->> Christine, I think you'll find much better results using two speedlites rather than one. Like Mark does with his single AB, I shoot two speedlites direct but get them as high in the bleachers as I can. I clamp them with superclamps to conduit or any other immovable structure and bleacher railings as a last resort. Using two lights eliminates a lot of the shadowing from direct flash which is why you don't have to bounce them if it's not practical or the output is not enough. |
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Mark Buffalo, Photographer
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Lonoke | AR | USA | Posted: 3:28 PM on 09.22.08 |
| ->> Christine, My guys have those rods that run in the ceiling and the gyms bleachers go all the way to the top so i am able to clamp them there then run the cords to an outlet. |
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