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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

WTF!
Alex Surrey, Student/Intern
Glendale | CA | United States | Posted: 6:57 AM on 08.30.08
->> Ok, I was on flickr today and looked at a group I am part of called Young Photographers. I went on someone's question that I replied to days before and scrolled towards the bottom until I saw a photo similar to mine only someone photoshoped it into an ad for Adidas and some English athletic store. I have contacted them to see how they got my photo and why they didn't bother to ask or notify me before using it. It is also on a 2012 London Olympics blog. So basically WTF!

Here are the Links:

http://2012designs.wordpress.com/

My photo :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sidelinerf4/903161718/
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Eric Isaacs, Photographer
Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 7:54 AM on 08.30.08
->> They probably didn't think you'd discover it... Or maybe they are assuming the Orphan Works act is already in effect. Hopefully you can find the originator of the ad and send them a bill.

Slightly OT but I took a photoshop class about 8 years ago where the instructor taught that if you change a photo or graphic around enough it is no longer protected under copyright. She actually had us stealing photos from the internet and altering them for our projects.

Lots of poorly educated people in the world.

EMI
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TD Paulius, Photographer
Orland Park | IL | USA | Posted: 8:09 AM on 08.30.08
->> This highlights the danger of using Flickr. No douibt, the store will point the finger at the designer who will assert the Creative Commons License arguing that its not a commercial use of the work, or that is a small portion of the total image or that in shilouette its a fair use, etc. It will be a long litany of excuses that you shall hear. Be patient and firm and go register your image if you have not already done so. Let us know how it turns out.
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Richard Rector, Photographer
Bellevue | WA | US | Posted: 9:07 AM on 08.30.08
->> and you have to love this website: http://www.pimpfish.com

To quote them: Quickly save pictures and movies in bulk to your computer, from any webpage, with ONE click
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Richard Rector, Photographer
Bellevue | WA | US | Posted: 9:14 AM on 08.30.08
->> Oh yeah, microsoft is promoting them on their ie8 beta site (as a time saver...) : http://ieaddons.com/en/details/Time_Savers/PimpFish_2007
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David Manning, Photographer
Athens | GA | | Posted: 9:36 AM on 08.30.08
->> This is why i don't and won't use flickr.

If someone never sees it, they can't steal it.

The stuff i post online is only 576 px wide. Hardly usable in any real context.
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John Scarpa, Photographer, Student/Intern
Bedminster | NJ | United States | Posted: 1:45 PM on 09.03.08
->> David has the right idea of posting small sizes so that no one can really do anything with the images even if they steal them. Also I host my site on zenfolio and you can not download any of the images unless you make the gallery downloadable. That also works on screen captures too, you can not just click and drag the image to your desktop.

Good luck with everything and I hope it turns out in your favor!
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Jack Megaw, Student/Intern, Photographer
Pittsburgh | PA | America | Posted: 2:01 PM on 09.03.08
->> Just so you know - JD Sports is a very big chain of sports shops in the UK - so if they're using your stuff (which they are) definitely go after them, its their logo on the ad where your picture's been used.

http://www.jdsports.co.uk/company.aspx

also make sure you download a copy of your ad - this happened to me a couple of years ago - the team that stole my shots left me without a foot to stand on.

Good Luck!

-Jack
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 2:03 PM on 09.03.08
->> If it's on the web in any way shape or form bigger than a 150px thumb I plaster a destructive watermark on the photo. The sad fact is that it is impossible to protect images from being downloaded.
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 2:06 PM on 09.03.08
->> Looks like they gave you photo credit. Isn't that enough??? J/K .... Have you contacted the company that used your work without permission?
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Matthew Wisniewski, Student/Intern
Madison | WI | USA | Posted: 8:46 PM on 09.03.08
->> I've always had a personal conflict between using Flickr and possibly having my pictures stolen, or not and having no one see my work. As young as I am, I think I need the exposure. I've started using watermarks, but a watermark wouldn't stop this kind of thing from happening. Anyone can make a vector image out of a photo, even if it's only 150px wide.
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John Riddell, Photographer
| ON | Canada | Posted: 10:38 PM on 09.03.08
->> Clark's right.....well, mostly :o)

They actually credit the original image to you and link back to the original. They know exactly where they got the image and don't hide it.

Strike another one up to Flickr.
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Alex Surrey, Student/Intern
Glendale | CA | United States | Posted: 10:57 PM on 09.03.08
->> I worked it out with the guy posting it. He put a link and my name on his blog. He also tolled me that he didn't make he got it from Adidas Youtube page.
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Bruce Twitchell, Photographer
Coeur d'Alene | ID | USA | Posted: 11:30 PM on 09.03.08
->> Alex,
Your image is used in what appears to be a major advertisement without permission and you are letting credit on some blog be 'payment in full'? Really?

On top of that, he tolled you? He charged you after your photo was stolen?
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Alex Surrey, Student/Intern
Glendale | CA | United States | Posted: 11:43 PM on 09.03.08
->> What do you suggest then Bruce?
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Alex Surrey, Student/Intern
Glendale | CA | United States | Posted: 12:59 AM on 09.04.08
->> To let you know john he put that on there after I contacted him. And I agreed for him to put a link to my original with my name. I am going to contact Adidas and JD sports to see what's up.
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Jan Tauchnitz, Photographer
Lübeck | SH | Germany | Posted: 2:26 AM on 09.04.08
->> I have just found this video http://noolmusic.com/videos/adidas_and_london_2012.php

I think you should take screenshots and save the video an contact a lawyer, because adidas is useing your work without permission and without to deem worthy you...
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Jan Tauchnitz, Photographer
Lübeck | SH | Germany | Posted: 2:29 AM on 09.04.08
->> Update here is the Original youtube side http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ-B3C7RQH8 in which your photo is again in the logo. I would talk to an lawyer as fast as i could. It seems that this ad is a world wide campaign for adidas...
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Alex Surrey, Student/Intern
Glendale | CA | United States | Posted: 2:33 AM on 09.04.08
->> Thanks Jan, i received an email from an SS member a hour ago telling me to register it with LOC. And one of my friends is an attorney so I will ask him.
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 3:07 AM on 09.04.08
->> John Scarpa says: "That also works on screen captures too, you can not just click and drag the image to your desktop."

John, any image that is viewable on screen can be captured and then saved. Clicking and dragging is the easiest way to get an image from someone's page but definitely not the only way. A screen capture is not under the control of Javascript or the browser so you can't stop it from any code embedded in your web page.

BTW, I checked your page linked on your member page and there are no watermarks/copyright marks in the images. A simple selected screen grab will snag any image without a visible indicator it's your work. The whole purpose of embedding your image's copyright information where it's visible is to warn those who would steal it that it IS copyrighted. Then they have no excuse if they steal it and you catch them.

Matthew Wisniewski says: "Anyone can make a vector image out of a photo, even if it's only 150px wide."

I think you're confusing raster (digital images from a camera, scanner or your standard jpegs or paint-type program) and vector (line-based) such as your standard drawing programs. There are some tools to trace the outlines of objects in raster images (like a photo) and turn it into outlines of the changes in tones, but they're not very useful for reusing them as raster images later if the source image is only 150px. That's only 2" wide on a 75dpi display, or less than 1" wide printed - not very usable because there's not enough data.

Finally, Alex Surrey: If you hadn't found your image Adidas would have had free use without paying you. That's wrong of them, and wrong of whoever stole (yes, stole) your image, modified it and submitted it to them. Immediately take a PDF screen print of the page and register your image with the copyright office, and then find an IP (Intellectual Properties) lawyer. There's a lot of issues that go into determining the value of an image, but if they're using it for world-wide commercial advertising on the internet then you deserve more than their handout or their "I'm sorry, we didn't know." Yes, they did know, they know better, and they hoped they wouldn't get caught. Contact the lawyer ASAP, show him the PDF, a copy of your original, and that you have started the registration process. No lawyer will bother taking your case on without the registration number for the image because a judge will not listen to the case without it.
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Alex Surrey, Student/Intern
Glendale | CA | United States | Posted: 9:51 AM on 09.04.08
->> I just got this email back from JD sports:

Hi Alex,

This blog is not associated with JD in anyway and we are not involved in the use of your photograph. It appears the person running the blog has taken the image from our site and re-designed it, incorporating your photo.

Any type of marketing activity we participate in with London 2012 must follow both adidas’s and The London Games Olympic Committees strict guidelines and they sign off anything we produce for the public domain. This graphic on the blog does not confirm to any guidelines and would not be approved by any of the parties included in the graphic.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind Regards
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Alex Surrey, Student/Intern
Glendale | CA | United States | Posted: 7:32 PM on 09.04.08
->> I have another question. If I didn't get it copyrighted could I still go after Adidas for using my photo? I am curious for maybe a future picture.
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 8:11 PM on 09.04.08
->> Alex yes you still can go after Adidas. Also find out how long they have been using this image. From the time your image has been abuse=infringement you got 90 days.
Even if that time have expired you still can be compensated and WELL.

But you MUST register your image before you file a lawsuit or go after them. But you cant get much compensation like statutory damages or attorneys fees unless your work registration is received by te copyright office within those 90 days.
It seems that you got a solid case so go fast and register your work. With all of that armory and protection you can be compensate a minimum of 150K and more depending how was taken and other factors. IT doesnt get any bigger than Adidas specially when they want a clean and perfect image while promoting the 2012 UK Olympics.

FInd an IP attorney NOW.

Good luck and keeps us inform

More 2 Come

www.ManuelloPaganelli.com
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Mark Peters, Photographer
Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 8:17 PM on 09.04.08
->> Alex -

The image was copyrighted the instant you pressed the shutter. Registering is the issue at hand, and as others have noted, your ability to find an attorney to take your case is going to be predicated on you doing that.

One question - when was the image originally published (even it that was simply posting to Flickr)?
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Alex Surrey, Student/Intern
Glendale | CA | United States | Posted: 8:24 PM on 09.04.08
->> I took the photo on February 12, 2005 and uploaded on Flickr on July 26, 2007. I have contacted the guy who had it on the blog to see if he knows how long Adidas has used it.
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Darrell Miho, Photographer
Los Angeles : SFO : HNL | CA | usa | Posted: 8:24 PM on 09.04.08
->> please learn the proper terminology, so as not to be confused later on.

your photos are automatically copyrighted when you take the photo.

the photo MUST be registered (not copyrighted) with the US Copyright Office to pursue any legal action in the US.

however, this is international in scope and you really need to consult with the proper legal professional that has expertise in this area.

ss.com is great, but you need professionl legal advice.

undoubtedly, the question will arise on whether or not this is a derivative work and whether or not the original photo had been altered enough to qualify as a 'new work'. so be prepared for this question to come up.
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Alex Surrey, Student/Intern
Glendale | CA | United States | Posted: 6:44 PM on 09.05.08
->> My dad's attorney friend said he is going to look into further, I am trying to get as much info as possible. I am still having trouble registering the photo. I go to Library of Congress and and I tried to get the forms and what not but I am totally confused.
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Alex Surrey, Student/Intern
Glendale | CA | United States | Posted: 12:11 AM on 09.06.08
->> I found out today Adidas will have been using it for a year as of September 20, 2008.
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David Bailey, Photographer
Flower Mound | TX | USA | Posted: 2:22 AM on 09.06.08
->> 2 bits of information that may be helpful.

First, Adidas generally uses an ad agency for all creative work. I shot for them 2 years ago and was actually hired by the Chiat-Day agency, so you may check with their London office to see if they are handling this Adidas account.

2nd, if you haven't already, join PPA and you will gain valuable legal assistance with copyright violations. Here's a quote from their web site (
http://www.ppa.com/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=16): "At a member's request, PPA will contact companies, stores and individuals with a PPA Copyright Warning Letter. This letter informs them of the law and addresses specific copyright infringements."
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Thread Title: WTF!
Thread Started By: Alex Surrey
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