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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Quiet Please!
Ben Shyman, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:06 AM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> Does anybody else out there wonder why golfers demand absolute quiet when they perform but a 16-year old gymnast (12 if you are from China) on balance beam can perform under the most intense pressure of their lives all the while music is playing, crowds are cheering and gasping, photo shutters are clicking and people (including other gymnasts on other exercises) are moving about.....oh, and they perform on television in front of a billion people? What gives? Is hitting a golf ball really that tough or are professional golfers just a bunch self-important babies? |
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Clay Carson, Photographer
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Little Rock | Ar | USA | Posted: 10:08 AM on 08.28.08 |
->> Here we go again...
Clay |
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 10:15 AM on 08.28.08 |
->> Search the message boards. Read any posts by Darren Carroll, Robert Beck or Chris Condon. Then read them again.
You're not breaking any new ground. |
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Ben Shyman, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:20 AM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> Hey Mike! It's a discussion....if you don't want to participate then don't....but don't be a smart ass. |
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Jeffrey Haderthauer, Photographer
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Wichita Falls | TX | USA | Posted: 10:25 AM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> Hey Ben! This has been covered many times over. No need to be rehashed. That's all Michael said. Who's the ass now? |
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Ben Shyman, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:28 AM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> He could have been a lot nicer in saying what he said. It was arrogant and uncalled for. |
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 10:33 AM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> Thanks, mom. |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 10:35 AM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> Clay had it right . . . here we go again :) |
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Mark Smith, Photographer
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Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 10:40 AM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> In other news, Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 10:45 AM on 08.28.08 |
->> I've covered both --- professional golf and Olympic gymnastics --- and you have no idea unless you've been there.
Trust me.
This has been covered over and over ... just do a search in the Sports Shooter Newsletter Archives regarding covering golf. Both Darren and Roberto have written extensively for me on this very topic.
Yes this is a discussion board. But some topics are more worn out than others, whether this is one or not depends on whether you offer a good perspective on it.
Someone want to start a "Nikon Versus Canon" topic?
I thought not ...
Mahalo! |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 10:57 AM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> How about a RAW vs JPG debate for good measure. |
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 11:05 AM on 08.28.08 |
->> Ben, I'm sorry you were so offended by why I wrote. But if you think I was rude enough to deserve two "inappropriate" ratings, you seriously need to move out of New York City. Like today.
And for the record, none of your "inappropriates" are from me.
Time for me to take a Witte-inspired break from the boards. |
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Ben Shyman, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:09 AM on 08.28.08 |
->> Well enough. Apology accepted.
Let's move on. |
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Jason Joseph, Photographer
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Dublin | OH | USA | Posted: 11:09 AM on 08.28.08 |
->> Bike racks.....3:00. Be there!
:) |
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Chris Stanfield, Photo Editor
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Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 11:23 AM on 08.28.08 |
->> Dear Ben,
Aside from everything that his been written, golf has always been known as a gentleman's game. Personally, I'm of the belief that complete silence - leaving a player to his own thoughts - actually increases the difficulty of executing the shot, especially when you know there are thousands of people watching you as you do it and NOT cheering.
Tradition continues to exist in sports for a reason. There are rules and ways of doing things in every sport that I may or may not agree with, but they exist nonetheless.
Your question in regard to whether or not golfers are self-important babies is one that could be asked of all athletes. Some are more gracious and personal than others. I would have to say that the game of golf has produced some fine people as well as golfers. They make a lot of money, but generally give a lot of it (and their time) back.
Some of my fondest memories as a kid growing up took place on a golf course, walking down a fairway as the sun set on a summer night with nothing but my thoughts to help me achieve my goal. Not to sound to silly, but golf is a lot like life. There are things that take place on a golf course that leave you scratching your head, wandering in amazement and keep you coming back for more.
I suspect that silence narrows focus. Under pressure, left with nothing to distract you, can magnify your thoughts of self-doubt or confidence. That certainly is what defines and separates Tiger Woods from the rest of the field on most occasions. Left to our own devices, with no distractions, the outcome often depends on our mental toughness and preparation. |
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Aaron Rhoads, Photographer
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McComb | MS | USA | Posted: 11:46 AM on 08.28.08 |
->> We could merge this thread with the "Olympic sports that shouldn't be."
What would happen IOC invented golf gymnastics as an olympic sport?
Would spectators be allowed to hoot and holler or would they have to be quiet? |
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Nick Doan, Photographer
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Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:02 PM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> So, is this your way of telling every editor in the US that you do not wish to cover professional Golf? I'm sure they appreciate the heads up. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 12:03 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> "Time for me to take a Witte-inspired break from the boards."
That would be like a day with C. Liddy or Walter and that is not acceptable.....don't gooooooooooo...... |
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Jeffrey Haderthauer, Photographer
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Wichita Falls | TX | USA | Posted: 12:03 PM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> Wow, I got 4 inappropriates? What can I say, the crowd at SS.com isn't what it used to be. I think I'm about done posting here. Maybe I'll chime in when people want to actually talk about sports photography and photojournalism. |
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David Heasley, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | Oh | U.S.A | Posted: 12:09 PM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> Then eventually we could get trampoline golf gymnastics. Cheer like mad when they're in the air but silent when on the ground. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 12:10 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> I've got two words..Happy Gilmore!!
that's the way golf should be!! |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 12:18 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> "Wow, I got 4 inappropriates? What can I say, the crowd at SS.com isn't what it used to be."
Too many newbies who probably haven't read the definition on when to click it. Probably the same folks who can't or haven't figure out how to use the forum's search feature to see the topic has been discussed in the past and resurrect it.
Com'n folks new to SS, the site is a little more than 6 years old it isn't like every topic about photojournalism or photography hasn't been discussed here. Don't believe me, use the search function in the forum. You might learn things like which is better, Canon or Nikon, RAW or Jpeg, Krispy Kreme or Duncan Donuts, the best brand compact flash card to use, the proper use of the niggardly, which bookmakers will print nudes, and so much more if you do a search FIRST before posting a new topic.
Stick around, Jeff. Enough sane people in the asylum makes the place livable. SS is still a fun, informative place us old times just have to do our job shaping the young minds of tomorrow. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 12:19 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> Whoops..... I should have wrote:
Stick around, Jeff. Enough sane people in the asylum makes the place livable. SS is still a fun, informative place. Us old times just have to do our job shaping the young minds of tomorrow. |
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Alan Herzberg, Photographer
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Elm Grove | WI | USA | Posted: 12:25 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> I think the simple answer is that it's a question of a sudden, unexpected noise when everything is otherwise quiet vs. a wall of sound that is more or less constant. From my personal experience as an athlete in college and afterward, the former is much more disconcerting than the latter. I have no doubt that a golfer could perform without problem in a noisy environment, like the gymnast.
Hope this helps. |
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Charley Starr, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Ketchikan | AK | USA | Posted: 1:34 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> Maybe the new server should have a filter that blocks any subject that has ever appeared on SportsShooter before! That way we won’t be forced to see something we may have seen before.
Many times I have read a post where people have said “search the message board” or “this has been covered many times over” or “no need to be rehashed”. The topic of the post is one I have found interesting or informative and I would not have thought about it if I had not seen the new post. It opens the subject up for new ideas and perspectives.
I’m sure there are many people that just read what’s posted. If the person posting had just searched than many of us that missed the original post would not have the benefit of the collective wisdom of the SportsShooter members.
I for one don’t mind these new posts.
Like all of the posts...If I don’t have an interest in the subject I don’t read it!
Why would you take the time to read a post you find repetitive and respond by telling them to do a search if you think these posts a waste of time? |
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Thomas Meredith, Photographer, Assistant
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Austin | TX | | Posted: 2:32 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> wow. this thread disintegrated to recess at kindergarten in record speed - even for SportsShooter.
"don't be a smart ass"
"whose the ass now"
"thanks, mom"
very professional guys. As Charley said, if a post is useless, then just ignore it - although I guess some just can't help themselves.
for the record: my dad can beat up your dad. |
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Jason Joseph, Photographer
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Dublin | OH | USA | Posted: 2:53 PM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> Mark me "off topic" if you will, but I have to offer my observation. This thread started this morning at 10:06am and has gotten 26 responses already. Whether or not all 26 have been constructive of not (my own post from earlier included in the non-constructive category), there have still been 26 posts. I started a thread 2 days ago with what I think to be a legitimate question and request for help. To date I have received 3 responses. I'm not fishing for people to respond to my post, I am pointing out where the focus and attention is being directed on this board. It seems to me that people are more likely to "jump on the pile" and bash someone or bash someone for bashing someone else than they are to give a minute and help those with legitimate requests. I may be way off with this observation, and in fact I hope that I am. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 2:53 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> Via Charley - "Maybe the new server should have a filter that blocks any subject that has ever appeared on SportsShooter before! That way we won’t be forced to see something we may have seen before."
Better yet, I think there should be a filter that auto-deletes threads that have more than 10 inappropriates. Not only to try to save everyones career that's associated with the thread, but also to clean up all the little turd piles people are making to make this a civil place where people can come and learn again.
Via Michael - "Time for me to take a Witte-inspired break from the boards"
I've been bad lately. I took a few months off then had something useful to say a few times this month.
However watching what's been going on again lately, for my own sanity and self preservation, I'm closing up shop again for a few months so that I don't end up being called an a**, a**hole, a**clown, a**hat, d***head, d***less, s***head, s***stain, s***eat**, d****bag, m*****f*****, c****uker, **gg**, know-it-all, p**ck, or any variation and stringed combination thereof.
As much as I want to foster growth within the community about remotes, lights, infrared, and all that technical gobbledygook - the benefits (people thinking I'm a generous SOB) are outweighed by the risks (of having my name tarnished by being associated with these disintegrated threads).
This has been said a million times but again, you folks need to realize how large of an audience SS has and how many of those people are the ones that do the hiring. I'll never forget sitting in an editors office catching up when another editor came in laughing saying "Hey *****, did you see what this idiot said about ******** on Sports Shooter?" And just like that, a few impulsive keystrokes a web forum tanked this dudes chances of working for them for a few years. I've seen their stuff and they're a good shooter...
So you have to ask yourself; "Is it financially responsible for me to say what I want to say, or do I really need to have the last word?"
Toodles kids. |
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Brad Penner, Photographer
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Neptune | NJ | USA | Posted: 2:59 PM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> sigh |
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Paul Jordan, Photographer
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Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 3:05 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> Ben, I suspect it has a whole lot more to do with convention than with athletes being babies.
You can scream all you want during my backswing, makes no never mind to me. But then, I'm used to it. Most serious players grew up playing golf in the quiet. It is how most of them learned to play the game.
Had they grown up playing golf with a boatload of noise from Rodney Dangerfield and the D'Annunzio brothers, as I did, things would probably be quite a bit livelier on tour. |
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Ben Shyman, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 3:51 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> This has been the most pathetic thread in the history of this website and I'm sorry I started it. It has made me want to quit sportsshooter.
Ciao.
Ben |
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Chris Stanfield, Photo Editor
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Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 4:26 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> Ben and friends,
Please, let's all take a deep breath and remember why we come here. We come to be informed, to learn, to teach and to fellowship. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who believes this conversation would have gone the same, had we all been having it face to face.
Too often, we take things for granted. Most of you have never met face to face and I can't imagine any of you would introduce or treat each other with barbs right out of the gate.Instead, you'd probably shake hands and begin to share all that you have in common - a love for photography and storytelling being at the forefront of the discussion.
Leaving the message boards or quitting a membership goes against every instinct we should have learned as photographers. Not everyone we meet will like us or want us around, but we do owe it to others to try... through honesty, compassion and learning from mistakes. Lord knows I've made mine.
Why not take the entire weekend and do nothing but celebrate the work of others on these message boards? Spend some time going through member pages and write them a letter offering praise or advice...or both.
This resource is just as precious as any of the others we have at our disposal. Abuse it too much and it could be gone forever. |
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Jason Orth, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Lincoln | NE | USA | Posted: 4:29 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> Ben, what did you expect?
You fire off a belligerent post (starting the thread no less) that derides golfers.
So, you've blasted a sport and the participants covered by members who respect the sport and those individuals. But you have the audacity you expect civility when you exhibited none to begin with?
Hey, I've let loose on here but I realize if I start a sh*tstorm, I can't complain about the smell. |
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Darrell Miho, Photographer
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Los Angeles : SFO : HNL | CA | usa | Posted: 6:08 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> research is your friend.
observe with earnest.
listen. then listen again.
and when you speak, choose your words wisely. |
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Richard Wolowicz, Photographer
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Brossard | QC | Canada | Posted: 9:53 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> Chris wrote:
"Please, let's all take a deep breath and remember why we come here."
It took this one sentence to make me realize why I come here ...
Witte wrote:
"... I don't end up being called an a**, a**hole, a**clown, a**hat, d***head, d***less, s***head, s***stain, s***eat**, d****bag, m*****f*****, c****uker, **gg**, know-it-all, p**ck, or any variation and stringed combination thereof.
There's 1 in there I can't figure out! It's killing me ... and probably going to cost me $25 for next year (and Thomas to start posting again) to figure it out.
Some of those are new to me ... must be getting old. |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 9:57 PM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> But what is the average airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? Either African or European, I don't care. |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 10:16 PM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> Either way, Walter, that's no ordinary rabbit :) |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 10:23 PM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> What did Bin Laden swallow????? ..... Damn, read that wrong...back to the third grade.... |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 10:27 PM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> He'll rip you head off. He's got sharp teeth. ;-) |
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Jeffery Jones, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Gallup | NM | USA | Posted: 10:52 PM on 08.28.08 |
| ->> Look at the bones...!!! |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 10:57 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> Richard, could it be because d****bag is misspelled?
More importantly, based on the being handed out in this thread, and the following excerpt from the definition of inappropriate, I want to see the freakish hands of our erstwhile site owners.....
"This rating should be hardly ever used, since we can count on one hand how many times in the past year that it could have been used." |
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Tom Knier, Photographer
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Lancaster | PA | USA | Posted: 11:36 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> Wow...
This thread's filled up almost as fast as the "I-wanna-be-the-last-poster-on-the-old-server" thread. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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McCall | ID | US | Posted: 11:57 PM on 08.28.08 |
->> Walter-
217 MPH. As long as there's no shutter. But if someone hits that magic button, the world may never know. Just like with how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop, you know? (I actually did look that up when I was in elementary school... who knows if it's accurate)
For the record, it's always best to go by the higher standard in any situation which you're not completely sure of. If no one around you is talking, it is most likely the right time to be silent. If everybody is talking, it's probably fine to talk. If no one is making any noise at all, it's probably best to just not even worry about it. You can just adapt and be fine. There are obvious exceptions to this, which don't at all apply in this thread, because we're talking about how to be effective as professional photographers at organized sporting events; not necessarily how to start cultural revolutions.
It is interesting how we have found a way to use the 50 post limit to self-police, though! Are we there yet? |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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McCall | ID | US | Posted: 12:01 AM on 08.29.08 |
->> And here's a link to the archives.
It's got good advice and is also a great example of SportsShooter at its best. The Kahuna also put a link to a few relevant news articles in one of the first posts on it. It's a good read.
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=29388 |
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Scott Greenlee, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Crescent Springs | KY | United States | Posted: 12:22 AM on 08.29.08 |
| ->> I think after this, we all need to get together around a campfire, hold hands and sing Kum bay ya! |
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This thread has been locked
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