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Media Rights
Josh McGuckin, Photographer, Assistant
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Broomfield | CO | USA | Posted: 11:41 AM on 07.14.08 |
->> For the last several years I have been shooting at an event where the media relations have become more and more difficult. Even with this I have been cultivating a relationship with the number one team at the event while also keeping a solid relationship with a large magazine. This year I received a notice 4 days before the event that has these new lines.
"All media rights to this event belong to .... for sales and distribution"
"The licensing or sub-licensing of photos, clips, or footage from the event shall be strictly forbidden for sales and distribution without the expressed written consent..."
Now I am invested in this event, I have my travel, room and everything paid for, my connections are set and I am ready for another year. However this throws a wrench in the mix, with this simple line I have the potential of loosing money because the sale that I count on to pay my way will probably not be able to happen.
I feel as though they would need to notify or publish this information earlier than 4 days prior to the event. Is there any way around this? Is there any time frame that is required to notify this?
I am almost thinking of just buying a ticket, there is no restriction on spectators for video, photos etc and it may be in my best interest even if it does limit the amount of information I receive directly from the event.
What is everyones opinion on this? |
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Steve Violette, Photographer
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Gulf Breeze | FL | USA | Posted: 12:29 PM on 07.14.08 |
->> Josh
Unfortunately, the other guys beat you to the punch. If you had a contract or something in writing you would have ground to stand on, but without it, you are out of luck. Good relations are one thing but contracts and rights are another. I believe you will have to chalk this one up to experience.
If I were you I would contact the organizer and get an clear understanding of what has taken place and better understand how you can move forward next year - Take the opportunity to determine if there is still room for you or not at this years event
As times get more competitive and all the issues around media rights etc and resale of images these issues will become more difficult and certainly cutthroat as we move forward
Steve |
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John Plassenthal, Photographer
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Vandalia | OH | USA | Posted: 2:02 PM on 07.14.08 |
->> I'm assuming that you mean that the cause is part of your credential agreement. Based on what you've written here it seems like the organizer is saying that they have the rights to everything you take and you would even need their permission to sell editorial photos to the magazine.
I'd talk with a lawyer immediately and ask whether they can enforce this. My guess is that they can't. Once you take the photos, you own the rights to them by law unless you are under a WFH contract (then who you work for owns the rights). Granting you access doesn't automatically transfer those rights under the law, and making you give them up to get access is durress. If they can't enforce it I'd plan on this being the last time you shoot the event and ignore their clause. They probably won't credential you next year in this case as retribution for not bending over for them.
Your choice is whether the income you get from the magazine on this event is worth giving up the residual print sales in favor of continuing to get credentialed year after year. If it's not, bail out.
My opinion is that if all photographers and news agencies don't fight this type of activity everywhere and every time it happens we may as all start looking for new jobs and hang up our gear. In schools teachers encourage kids to take photos from the internet to illustrate their reports giving the web site address as credit and never mention that this is wrong. A whole generation is growing up with no concept of the artistic rights one is entitled to the instant they snap the shutter. Just because everyone is doing it doesn't make it right.
My vote is to boycott any event or league that claims rights in return for access. Let the guys with cameras work these events. The quality will drop, the gwc's will go broke and eventually the pendulum will swing back. But in my opinion every news agency that gives in, and every photographer that accepts limitations on their rights for access does us all a disservice. This applies to the IHSAA, NCAA, MLB, NFL, etc. The sale of a print doesn't infringe on anyones trademarks or rights of publicity under the law. The leagues are trying to control information and nickle and dime every penny from the public they can. |
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Josh McGuckin, Photographer, Assistant
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Broomfield | CO | USA | Posted: 2:18 PM on 07.14.08 |
->> The concern I have is not from the Magazine, all the editorial rights are taken care of. The problem I have is that based on the rules that they had published on their site until Friday I was still clear to work with a client that I have worked with for the last 2 years. On Friday in and email time stamped 5:51 pm they sent out new rules for an event that starts tomorrow!
I have been talking to a friend who is a new lawyer and I need to talk to an established lawyer still, but one thing that he brought up is Estoppel. Basically, if the rules change after you have invested in the previous rules there is a legal doctrine that protects against that.
The new rules are listed in a contract that they are asking for a signature on to recognize that you follow the rules. I don't want to sign it, but I need the media access for my magazine obligations so I am in a bit of a pickle...as they say.
This is the last thing I wanted to deal with 1 day before an event |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Non Conforming | MA | United States | Posted: 3:11 PM on 07.14.08 |
->> Josh just consider this. If you go and shoot the event and convey image(s) and rights to your 'other' client that you are eventually found to not have had in the first place you will have not only nuked the relationship with the event organizer but may be putting the 2nd client in jeopardy too.
While you are fighting the validity of the the 'new' credential language your "2nd" client may be left holding the bag (especially if they have deeper pockets than you) for using photos that weren't properly obtained. In which case your name will not only be mud with the organizer but with your 2nd client too.
Tread lightly unless you have a really big insureance policy to cover all of the "I thoughts" that will eventually get tossed around. |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 3:26 PM on 07.14.08 |
->> Josh the first person you need to reach is the one you have been dealing with for the past few yrs or anybody at the main office responsible for the drastic changes.
Pick up the phone ASAP and tell them that you dont agree with those unfriendly terms and that to make it a win/win they will need to "sharpie out" or change a few things. All contracts are to be negotiated otherwise you are not working together. So call them and see if this contract, written by arrogant attorneys, can be alter.
Explain to them that a major part of your income comes after the fact and that is why your are able to provide great service to them for a fair creative fees. If you dont ask you dont receive.
By all means dont sign that contract at all. Otherwise they will get your images and sell it to as many folks as possible while you get ZERO!! So in a way you will be working for them so they can own EVERYTHING!!
These images got tons of value and that is why they want to own it. Folks, always remember that any of our images can RESCUE US, today, a few yrs from now or when WE need to retire by bringing US much needed financial residual. Times are tough already so LETS no make it worse.
More 2 Come
Pag
http://www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Josh McGuckin, Photographer, Assistant
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Broomfield | CO | USA | Posted: 4:17 PM on 07.14.08 |
->> Thanks Guys,
Eric that is exactly what the little voice in my head has been saying actually and I definitely don't want to compromise the relationship. I am glad you said it to though because I have been trying to justify or reason with that little voice
Manuello, I haven't been able to reach anyone via telephone however I replied to the email that conveyed this new media restriction with my disagreement with the policy and the timing of its release. So I guess we will see how it all turns up.
I may simply have to pay admission, that appears to be the only way that I can gain access to the event without any media restrictions. |
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Rich Cruse, Photographer
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Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 5:36 PM on 07.14.08 |
->> Josh:
I had an event organizer do exactly the same thing a number of years ago. This event had photographers coming in from Europe, Asia, Australia and the US. I found out about this and alerted as many photographers I could that once they arrived, they would be required to sign away commercial rights to the organizer. Enough people contacted them and they withdrew that requirement at the last minute. They were going to bring in photographers from around the world with the pretense they were shooting under the same terms as in previous years. Then they were going to "spring" this on them at registration the day before. This is outrageous behavior .
These event organizers are under the impression that there is actually money to be made from editorial photography. While that is somewhat true, the main reason I go to events is to get photos to sell commercially. The editorial pays expenses. Many organizers want to control the use of their logos and they think by putting terms like you describe in their credential apps., that will take care of the problem. They are already protected by copyright laws. They can lay out in advance the terms in which the photos with their logos can be used OR they can require that the logos be removed.
The solution to this is to refuse to sign the form and shoot without a credential. If this is a mountain bike race, they cannot restrict you from everywhere on the course to be sure. That is why I stopped shooting mountain bike races a long time ago. When I am there shooting editorially, I am providing them with a valuable free service-publicity! If they cannot respect me and my rights to make a living from the work I create, then I will not show up- period.
Don't accept those terms and do what you want with your photos. Everyone seems to think their event is the "SuperBowl" and they can make all these outrageous demands. Don't accept it and they will learn to respect our rights to make a living wage.
Rich |
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Josh McGuckin, Photographer, Assistant
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Broomfield | CO | USA | Posted: 7:29 PM on 07.14.08 |
->> Well, unfortunately there is no update, I have called left and left messages with the person in charge and with the office assistant. I have emailed and I am already here paying for a hotel. So I guess tomorrow when I go to check in we will see what the story is.
I really appreciate everyones assistance with this, I am glad that I have a strong community with a variety of experiences to lean on when trouble is a-brewin'! |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 8:12 PM on 07.14.08 |
->> Josh,
Let us know what happens.
--Mark |
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David Bailey, Photographer
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Flower Mound | TX | USA | Posted: 9:40 PM on 07.14.08 |
| ->> Very interested in a follow up to this when you have time to respond. |
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Ben Mackey, Photographer, Assistant
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Columbia | MD | USA | Posted: 9:46 PM on 07.14.08 |
->> Josh,
Have you talked to your client who's expecting images of the event? What do they think about needing to get a mother-may-I prior to their (presumably) editorial use of your work? Is the additional information you might get from being credentialed worth it to them?
Make sure you take a working pen with you to modify whatever paperwork they want you to sign so that it is to your liking. As Manuello so aptly points out, this is a negotiation. They haven't answered your requests for clarification prior to the event, tomorrow will be the first time you see the true text they want you to agree to and sign. Edit the paperwork to restart the negotiation. If you are the mood to gum up the works, insist on a copy of whatever agreement you sign (or at least shoot it yourself to have a copy of what you signed).
If it were me and my client was willing to go with non-credentialed coverage, I'd shoot as a spectator and let them wonder why I didn't show up.
Does your hotel has internet access (and you have a computer to work with)? Be sure to register *your* collection tomorrow night with the Library of Congress. Include All Rights Reserved in the EXIF and register the files as soon as you can. Remember, ARR means no one has any right to use your work without your prior approval. If they didn't create it and you received nothing from them (i.e., no credentials) what rights do they have to your work?
Good luck, have fun, and shoot well.
P.S. Really like shot #3 on your member page. Great light and a different view than most shots. It gives the reader a great feel for what the road is really like. |
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Josh McGuckin, Photographer, Assistant
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Broomfield | CO | USA | Posted: 5:16 PM on 07.15.08 |
->> Ok, now it is time for the update. I went in to the media center optimistically hoping that it would be a breeze. I went in and there was a volunteer there who basically was very polite and just getting signatures and all that. Anyhow, I questioned the contract and she called in the guy in charge.
We sat down and chatted for a bit. I explained my part and he explained his. I still don't know how they got the wording the way they did on the disclaimer based on our conversation but we made some notes and both signed and the disclaimer now gives me full rights to my images.
The viewpoint that they were looking at was trying to restrict someone from coming in, making a film on the event and selling an "unauthorized" recap. They are fine with commercial use of an image by teams for their own promotion. I was willing to concede that one aspect because it doesn't apply to me...at all really..
So basically the "revised" version of the disclaimer has been revised to suit my needs. The stress has been relieved and I am simply gonna do my job...
Thanks again everyone for the words of advice, I would put myself at the lower end of the totem pole on this site and it is always great to get advice from some of the worlds best sports shooters! |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 5:36 PM on 07.15.08 |
| ->> Everyone loves to hate lawyers, but this sounds like a case where if they had used a competent attorney to start with a lot of confusion could have been avoided.....another example where going the "cheap" route isn't always the best. |
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Josh McGuckin, Photographer, Assistant
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Broomfield | CO | USA | Posted: 5:57 PM on 07.15.08 |
| ->> I absolutely agree, I am curious if any media simply didn't show because of the phrasing that was used in the disclaimer! |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 7:06 PM on 07.15.08 |
->> Like I wrote, always talk to the person you are dealing with first. You got a dog or cat problem talk to your vet a girl problem talk to that girl.
And trust me they knew what they were doing. YOu were fortunate to come here and ask questions and get answers. What about the many freelancers that did sign it. In he eyes of this media relation co, "here we put out this contract if 3 or 6 our of 10 sign it we are ok" then deal with one or two who dissents.
I hope you know other fellow photographers involve in this event and hopefully you were able to brighten them up too.
More 2 Come
mp
http://www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Non Conforming | MA | United States | Posted: 7:15 PM on 07.15.08 |
->> So rather than to go in half cocked, spouting off half baked internet researched laws you sat and spoke to an organizer in a calm and professional manner? And that worked? Who 'da thunk it!
Josh I'm glad that it all worked out for you. I'm even MORE glad that you took such a professional approach and worked with them to reach a mutually beneficial resolution. As more people present themselves with cameras it will be shooters like yourself who can work both sides of a problem that will succeed.
Way to go dude. |
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Rich Cruse, Photographer
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Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 7:24 PM on 07.15.08 |
| ->> Yes, good job Josh! I hope more photographers will come to the forums with these questions. Blindly accepting these outrageous agreements not only affects individuals but in fact, affects us all. I keep finding photographers who blindly sign away all rights for what amounts to an editorial day rate. |
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Josh McGuckin, Photographer, Assistant
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Broomfield | CO | USA | Posted: 9:29 PM on 07.15.08 |
->> Manuello, I agree, it is always best to talk to the person in charge to sort things out. It is always tough to keep the emotions in check when you can't get in touch with the person that you need to speak too.
Eric, I always go in level headed, really it is the only way I know. To be honest, had they said that they wouldn't budge, I would have simply walked out and been gone taking my magazine and clients with me.
Rich, I agree, there was a stack of forms sitting there and that stack was just signed away, no notes, just blindly signed...
You know it is funny, Yesterday I was stressed out about this more than I can express. I was thinking about what I would do if i had a million dollars and yesterday it involved a lawsuit, not for money or anything, but to set a precedent. It drives me up a wall to see disclaimers like this. I am pretty psyched right now and the event is shaping up.
You guys will be seeing an update on my members page in the next week... |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 12:57 AM on 07.16.08 |
->> Nicely handled, Josh.
--Mark |
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Josh McGuckin, Photographer, Assistant
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Broomfield | CO | USA | Posted: 12:34 AM on 07.22.08 |
->> This Job is just crazy, my editorial client apparently decided they wanted to play, so they desaturated, cropped and tweaked my images so they are all pixelated and look like snapshots. I just can't win on this one.
Anyhow, I can deal with that I guess. Member page has been updated if anyone is interested in checking out the results of all this... |
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