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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Jody Gomez and Other Fine Female Shooters in Here
Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 5:52 PM on 07.01.08 |
->> When it comes to getting straight answers, I totally agree with our female shooters, there is not need to be insulting, rude or abusive on receiving feedbacks. Unless the question is so dumb that pissed me off. Just kidding Jody, so not butt heading ok
If this helps, think of those folks who irks your with their petulant remarks as …WHATEVER! Make not mistake, smart readers, which plenty are in here, will see their true colors.
What I want to say is that is great finding professional women ( or amateurs or college students) like Jody G., Shelly C and Debra R. and others if I am missing those names.
A pity that since I arrived here out of so many members only a few women, let me count it with 3 or 5 fingers, do collaborate. I am sure there are more so I would love to hear them speak out. One comment or question from any of you can feed and energize 1,000 young or older photographers.
Besides, you are tougher than us and can take a few punches but for real your voice and wise comments are much needed. Two or four of you have more business sense than a barrel or a phone booth filled with some of the guys in here..
In many ways, we guys will never think equally to women. WE do arrived to the same conclusion but by different routes which is usually pushing, shoveling and insulting. YIKES!!.
When my oldest daughter, she is now 12, was 3 or 4 I took her to a Baltimore Orioles game. Here I was proud that she was with me and wanted to share a few of the things my wonderful father shared with me. Then around the 4th or 5th inning she seemed totally bored held my hand and with sad eyes said, “daddy when are the girls playing?”
Folks lets be part of the same team instead of fighting with each others. Is pretty tough out there to be a lone wolf and all those women do have great things to contributed.
More 2 Come
mp
http://www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Renay Johnson, Photographer, Assistant
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San Diego | CA | | Posted: 6:20 PM on 07.01.08 |
| ->> Manuello. Thank you for the kind words towards women photographers. Other than my stubborness, it's posts like yours that keep me going when I find myself the only female photographer at a fight and wondering if I am "good enough". I have to admit that when I started shooting sports, I received pointers and tips from some very fine male photographers. I am happy to say that here in my town, there are a few guys who enjoy my work and even ask my opinion when we talk shop. I have so much to learn and one day, I will be known as one of the best female photographers here in my area. I am excited to increase my photography skills every day and welcome the opportunity to meet more fellow female shooter in the SS community. |
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Jody Gomez, Photographer
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Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 8:25 PM on 07.01.08 |
->> Manuello - Wow. Thank you. Your post was unexpected and very much appreciated.
Being a girl in a guy's world is a tough gig, but despite the lumps I take sometimes, I wouldn't trade this for any other job. While I can't and won't speak for any of the other girls, if I had to venture a guess, I'd say they probably feel the same way.
Anyway, your sentiments are much appreciated. Thank you. |
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Dirk Dewachter, Photographer
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Playa Del Rey | CA | USA | Posted: 8:39 PM on 07.01.08 |
| ->> Manuello how could you!!!! You forgot Lucy Nicholson of Reuters, she totes that 400 like it's a feather and she is one hell of a photographer. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 10:47 PM on 07.01.08 |
->> Jody,
When I went to Brooks back in the early 80's we had a great bunch of talented female shooters, both as Graduates and going to school with me, ignore these guys that are treating you like dirt, IMHO, they are treating you like that because they are worried about the threat you pose. You and Deb R. are both talented and enthusiastic about your photography. Keep at it and forget about these guys. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 11:05 PM on 07.01.08 |
->> Yamil,
I hadn't noticed any mistreatment or other nastiness that was based on gender here. Manuello was the first person to bring it up.
--Mark |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:20 PM on 07.01.08 |
->> Manuello, and the others who have posted and emailed privately,
THANKS!
I can say that I have seen RUDENESS from male to female and male to male and even sometimes female to female. And it is all pitiful.
I was told all thru college "you suck, find a new career, you're never going to make it" and I can say this-NO ONE breaks me down. My boxing gloves are worn but that will never stop me.
I was told tonight by someone here that they appreciate that I am always there rooting for the underdog. I always have been, and always will be. I have been the underdog too, and still am in many ways.
For EVERYONE here who emailed me to say they have been humiliated, put down, told they are not worthy-if you quit, they-the insecure idiots, win. Not only that but I have said this over and over-this field we are in is so subjective, as is ANYTHNG creative. Just because there is a photo used as a double truck, or on the cover of SI or any other publication doesn't mean you have to love it.It doesn't mean you have to even like it. Just because "some of the best in the business" think your work sucks and are not worthy of critiquing, that doesn't mean they are bad images. SOMEONE, SOME WHERE, may love it..even an editor. Just because someone may be so respected in this field doesn't mean YOU have to like their images.
Renay, with your attitude, you WILL be the best female in your area before long.
Like Jody, I wouldn't trade this for anything else in the world either (well, maybe if I could be that great female rock and roller/guitar player but being tone deaf, I knew long ago that would never happen. So, I keep shooting them and buying my nephew all the musical equipment his heart desires so he can be that rock star!)
To ALL the SS members and non members who have emailed me..NEVER QUIT.
NEVER GIVE UP.
When it comes to the rude, appalling behavior-you have 2 ways to handle it. Kill them with kindness, or ask to borrow my boxing gloves! |
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Mark Davis, Photographer
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Decatur | AL | USA | Posted: 12:03 AM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> Manuello, Well Said! |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 12:42 AM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> I have to agree with mark on this. nastiness on this message board, as with many others has nothing to do with gender....I have found nastiness is an equal opportunity offender. |
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Mark Davis, Photographer
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Decatur | AL | USA | Posted: 1:08 AM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> Mark and Chuck, Debra and Jody mentioned in previous posts about photographers unwilling to help them along the way in their careers, not just RUDE photographers on the forum. I think that is where Manuello's post arrived. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:17 AM on 07.02.08 |
->> Mark,
I don't think the rudeness was based on gender, but on stupidity!!
Rude is rude, and it really doesn't matter who you are, who you work for or who you shoot form there's not need to be rude to anyone. I guess I'm old fashioned, but I believe in treating ladies with respect, especially being a father of a 14 year old young lady.
Y |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 1:38 AM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> thats fine mark...but I read the post different. hence my response. I mean come on, if you've been in the business for any time at all you've been treated like crap by: editors, writers, cops, subjects, crooks, the general public, public officials, hell, everyone you name it they probably bitch slapped us once, twice or maybe three times. IT'S THE NATURE OF THE BUSINESS. you know we all want to try and make the world a nicer place....pass it on and that kind of thing...but the fact of the matter is...well...dammit...the world is NOT a very nice place. I know I know I'll get reamed for saying this but does anyone really think we live in this pollyanna world which some suggest? "Oh let's all be nice to each other".....no. sad as it is...we don't. I am a pretty fun and positive guy (although I've been demonized by some here on this forum). anyone who knows me KNOWS I like having fun and poking a stick in the eye of authority...but as hard as we might try the business remains the same. it's a dog eat dog world....I'm not in the freelance world but yeah I've been knocked around by some BIG BOYS on my way over the years....but I'm not crying about it or blaming these 'meannies' for not playing nice because I'm a grown up and know that's just how things are. do I try to change this? I hope I do by my actions...but hell I'm human, I know I don't always put on my best face. I get angry when I'm shooting something and I see GWC's shooting for free and LYING through their teeth that they're getting paid...man I know several women shooters who can shoot circles around me.....and I have NEVER heard them crying and moaning about "the boys club" I mean geezus, that is SO 1980's. sorry, I really should be getting my beauty sleep....I mean crap...look at my photo...I need it. BTW...feel free to hit the "huh", "inappropriate" or "idiotic" button. |
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Allen Hubbard, Photographer
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Spokane | WA | USA | Posted: 5:26 AM on 07.02.08 |
->> Kudo's Chuck!
Manuello, not sure what prompted your post unless you are checking in with your feminine side.
Jody, Debra and others, I have the utmost respect for you and your work but this whole issue is so beat to death.
I don't know what kind of messages you get privately but I get discouraging remarks too and none of it has to do with gender. If we all went by a number instead of a name that identifies our gender (for the most part) would you feel that remarks, comments etc. were based on gender?
Yes I know that there are those "good ol boy" attitudes that do still exist but they are the minority in these times.
Just take whatever feedback you get (positive or negative)in a constructive way and don't fuel the fire in regards to the male/female attitudes.
In some careers there are definately challenges that can't be met by the opposite sex (as a general rule) but I don't see that photography is one of them. It seems to me that since there are not as many physical aspects to it (compared to say construction) that there are no challenges that the women can't equal or even outperform the men.
So why play the gender card rather than proving your better than the next "Guy". |
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Dianna Russell, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 6:29 AM on 07.02.08 |
->> Manuello, I also want to thank you for your words. And Debra & Jody, I always enjoy reading your posts as well. I don't post much anymore because of some of the mean spirited people and because sometimes it's just not worth it.
But besides rudeness or being completely ignored there is not much worse than when someone tampers with my gear. Yes. Before a game a couple years ago, someone (another photographer) changed a bunch of settings on my camera (a new camera that was still unfamiliar to me.) I was trying to do my best to get good shots but kept having problems with the focus and other settings on the camera. Obviously not being able to read Japanese didn't help either. And as funny as it may be to some, it really wasn't funny then. I happen to seriously care about my photography and constantly work to improve and am hopeful that someday I'll get my break.
Unfortunately, on some days I still have doubts as to whether I'll ever be good enough. But as much as I'd like to just quit -- especially after reading all the doom and gloom threads -- I won't. A very, very wise man once told me to never ever give up on my dream and never ever quit. That wonderful soul was Gordon Parks.
"Be the change you want to see" -- Mahatma Gandhi
~Dianna |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:14 AM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> dianna, that is an old as the hills prank. I actually don't think it was done in a mean spirited way. friends also used to pick up film cameras belonging to one another and fire off a crazy frame when they weren't around. you get to the darkroom and go, "geez, when did i take that crazy photo?" but you do have me curious, what did not being able to read japanese have to do with it? |
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Derrick den Hollander, Photographer
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Melbourne | VIC | AUSTRALIA | Posted: 8:16 AM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> I'm stunned - I think Chuck momentarily found the Caps Lock button! |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:29 AM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> okay derrick, you lost me.....translate please...8) |
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Derrick den Hollander, Photographer
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Melbourne | VIC | AUSTRALIA | Posted: 8:41 AM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> Chuck - I've enjoyed many of your insightfull and often humourous posts here. I don't recall ever having seen you use a capital letter - but your post above mine, I spotted one. No biggie, just thought with all the free/spec doom and gloom posts I'd (unsuccessfully) lighten the mood. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:49 AM on 07.02.08 |
->> yeah, the caps key is a waste of time....and dianna I left out a crucial part of my comment to you sorry..
I meant to say:
"I actually don't think it was done in a mean spirited way and certainly had nothing to do with you being a woman." |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 9:42 AM on 07.02.08 |
->> "Yes I know that there are those "good ol boy" attitudes that do still exist but they are the minority in these times."
Allen - All I can say to this statement is you need to get out more. It is hard to see the entire forest if you are one of the trees. The 'good ol boy' network is alive and quite well on the sidelines.
Manuello was trying to encourage other female photographers to become regular contributors in the threads. Shelly, Debra, Jody and a few others are welcomed regulars posters, but there are other members who are here who are silent. I believe that his intention was trying to make the boards more welcoming...or so I perceive at this point...to other female members.
"Just take whatever feedback you get (positive or negative)in a constructive way and don't fuel the fire in regards to the male/female attitudes."
Is this a recommendation, suggestion or order?
I'm not trying to bust yer chops but making a statement like this can be perceived insensitive IMHO. Depending on your gender, race, the environment one was raised in single statement can be perceived differently. I'm pretty sure your intentions were noble but this is an example of how things can go south quickly.
Everything before the 'and' was all good. Everything after comes off negative. It is remarks like that which may seem innocent to you have a totally different meaning to someone of the opposite gender. Adding that made your remark sexist and you probably don't even realize it. From where I sit you told every woman, "Well, if the guy giving you grief is a dick, just take it and don't get your panties in a twist."
Com'n was that what you were trying to say? I doubt it. Communicating in writing is much more difficult than face to face (hell, some people fail miserably F2F). How something is written is equally important to what is written, unless you know the other party well, because how they perceive your message may not always be the way you intended.
Just something to bear in mind. Don't assume the reader has the same education, life experience or identifies with the same ethnosocioeconomic group as you may.
Oh, and C-Liddy is right... Dianna, "that is an old as the hills prank. I actually don't think it was done in a mean spirited way." I've been a victim of such treatment. It took me years to figure out this is some kind of sign of affection among photographers.
It is an old prank. Kinda like putting a car up on railroad ties so the wheels are just barely off the ground that you wouldn't notice it on your way to your wedding. No, it didn't happen to me, but co-workers at the camera store I worked at in high school did that to our boss. It was amusing, but not to his bride waiting at the alter.
Neither are appreciated on game day ~ if you know what I mean. On vacation, in the photo office . . . yeah that's alright, but not when you're on the job.
Manuello was right about one thing:
"In many ways, we guys will never think equally to women."
There are some guys who know there are women out there who are actually better. Their just to male to admit it ;-)
No more to come ;-) |
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Mike Ullery, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Piqua | OH | USA | Posted: 11:06 AM on 07.02.08 |
->> Time out from the discussion to present Clark with the prize for the longest word used on SS in some time:
"Just something to bear in mind. Don't assume the reader has the same education, life experience or identifies with the same ethnosocioeconomic group as you may."
ethnosocioeconomic....wow!
Sorry, I'm not making light of the discussion. |
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Mark Sutton, Photographer
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Herndon | VA | USA | Posted: 11:26 AM on 07.02.08 |
->> I'm not sure but I think Manuello was talking about other male photographers treating the women like dirt in some of their responses to these post, in the field or just plain ol' nasty feed back when they asked for help. I personally know a couple of women who can shoot their pants off that are members of this SS Society. One in particular who just left the Daily Press in Hampton, VA that not long ago said bye-bye to sports to concentrate on her fledging Wedding Photography business and if she's as GREAT as she was shooting sports. She'll make a ton of money shooting weddings.
Take care everyone and you too Chuckster'. Great photo of your son getting married. |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 11:48 AM on 07.02.08 |
->> This conversation/thread is interesting because in general I don't see the women shooters getting bashed around on here.
I *do* see people that consistently produce lackluster images get bashed when their pictures suck because at the end of the day this business is all about the image. If your pictures suck and you post a lot on the message board you're probably not gonna get much slack. I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying. I think it's human nature to judge people that way. This is a website that is about photography so producing and showing less than stellar images hurts your "visual credibility".
I can't look at a picture and tell if it was shot by a man or a woman. But just because you want to be a great photographer doesn't mean that you CAN be a GREAT photographer. There is a lot of skill and talent involved in sports photography. I'm not a fan of "NEVER QUIT" because you have to be realistic.
I wanted to play major league baseball, but I didn't have the skills to reach that level. I had a lot of scouts and coaches tell me that. Some were nice about it but some were a-holes in their delivery. Eventually I had to realize that I was at best a Double A baseball player, it's pro baseball but it ain't "The Show".
Some of us are "minor league" photographers. But we're not all cut out to be "major league" photographers.
dbr |
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Mark Davis, Photographer
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Decatur | AL | USA | Posted: 12:02 PM on 07.02.08 |
->> Delane, Well said!
What is marking "huh" about? Certainly, that post didn't fly over someones head, or did it? |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 12:04 PM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> come on mark....you KNOW it did! |
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Mark Davis, Photographer
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Decatur | AL | USA | Posted: 12:15 PM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> Chuck, I marked your first post informative. ;) |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 12:33 PM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> Mark, it was probably the baseball references that I made. It's all good. |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 2:03 PM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> It's probably from the guy that once thought that Delane was a beautiful woman :) |
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Allen Hubbard, Photographer
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Spokane | WA | USA | Posted: 2:39 PM on 07.02.08 |
->> Clark:
Sorry if I seemed to be saying "just take it", that was not my intention and yes I understand that people read things differently and I may not use the best words all the time so I apologize. My intention was to say to not let it get you down about your work and to try and use it in a positive manner even though the original statement may have been made in a negative way.
I guess that maybe I have been ignorant to the "good ol boy" situation then, I have had situations where I felt I wasn't welcomed with open arms, but I just brushed it off and went about my business. I got it from both men and women but I never felt it had anything to do with gender. I am not as much into the Pro Sports world so maybe thats a whole different game too.
Anyway my remarks were intended to encourage others (male or female) who feel they aren't welcome. I am a very open and honest person and I don't (intentionally) write or say things to be rude, insensitive or sexist. Again my apologies to anyone who felt that way. |
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Mark Sutton, Photographer
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Herndon | VA | USA | Posted: 2:45 PM on 07.02.08 |
| ->> What? Delane isn't that beautiful woman in his icon? What da? |
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Chad Ryan, Photographer, Assistant
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Fort Wayne | IN | USA | Posted: 3:05 PM on 07.02.08 |
->> Delane,
You knocked that one outta the park. I'm not sure it could've been said any better than the way you said it. |
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Mark Sutton, Photographer
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Herndon | VA | USA | Posted: 3:30 PM on 07.02.08 |
->> I once met this lady a couple years ago while I was refereeing a Division III Basketball game sitting in the stands on the bottom row firing away with a brand new Canon 20D. I asked her politely not to use her flash which she kindly stopped, but during a timeout she made a comment about her pictures where now too dark. I kindly went over (Now I wouldn’t have done this during a Division I or II game) and reset her settings and she thanked me almost every time I came down the floor. This was before I joined Sports Shooter, but the lady waited till I came out of the locker room after the game and thanked me again and showed me several images she had on her camera of me during the game. I gave her my e-mail address and she sent me some nice images and I referenced Sports Shooter to her although I had not joined yet. When she asked me reasonings for not being on the sideline shooting or working for Sports Illustrated (like working for SI is that freak'n easy), I told her my dream of someday working the NCAA Final Four and the NBA Finals.
But, the reason why I’m typing this post is this; one of her e-mail's she sent me about SS was that although she enjoyed the GREAT photos throughout the site, there were no references on how the photographer accomplished these beautiful images. She wanted to know the camera type, lens type, location of the camera and what the photographer was thinking when he set the shot up. I told her there were other places on the site where she could get that info, but she didn’t want to hear it from other people. If she was looking at an image on somebody’s members page. She wanted to hear that particular individual’s reasons on what they were looking for and how that particular individual got that image. Similar to what Sports Illustrated did with their section on some of their famous photographer’s favorite shots. You see I pumped up SS as a place where you could get a wealth of knowledge even if you were only a Soccer Mom shooting your son on the weekend.
I now see her at some of the local High School Basketball games when her daughter is playing and have visited her site and she has gotten a lot better from reading stuff on SS. Is she trying to take money out of our pocket? No, because she only shoots games her daughter is participating in. But anyway, I hope I didn't waste your time with this post and if you “huh?” me I clearly understand.
Take care!!!
PS: Delane you know I was just kidding about your icon.... |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 4:42 PM on 07.02.08 |
->> I don't believe that generalizing about any group EVEN IN A POSITIVE WAY is acceptable. Racism isn't limited to hatred -- it's also about judging people according to the group to which they belong.
I can't recall how many times I've heard people who've told me how all Jews are well educated, good with money, etc., etc. I've heard similar positive prejudice about Asians, women and other groups.
Ascribing even a positive attribute to an an entire gender, race or religion is still prejudice.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prejudice
See definition #2.
--Mark |
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Mark Smith, Photographer
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Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 4:51 PM on 07.02.08 |
->> The thing is, there is a way to disagree civilly. I do not consider it disrespectful to say, "I don't agree with you, here is why, and here is what I think". Those things are necessary for civil discourse. Alternatively, there is a difference between clashing viewpoints and clashing people. I have immense respect for Debra and Jody. They are both really good people who work in and for this industry. I've also disagreed with either of them, on occasion. I disagree with people I respect and care about, all the time. There is, however, a "right" way to disagree, especially in a forum of peers.
Now, having said that, IF you do hold women in some lower regard because of their gender, I'd just like to be on record saying "your mind is an antiquated cesspool of ignorance and chauvinism, and you are a pig". I mean that one with a great void of respect and civility. |
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Jody Gomez, Photographer
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Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 6:48 PM on 07.02.08 |
->> For the record - it has never occurred to me that any negative or rude comments I've received have been due to my gender or race. I always thought that the people who are rude or mean are that way because they are unhappy little children. I agree with the others that we can disagree with each other in a civil and respectful way. Personally, I love a good debate with someone who has an opposing view from me. Not because I love to argue or need to prove MY point, but because I learn by asking "why?" or challenging the status quo. It's just the way I develop a complete understanding of things and doesn't mean that I think the person I'm questioning is wrong.
While I will do everything in my power to not be rude to anyone, I also exercise my right to speak my mind because I hate how politically correct we are expected to be so no one is offended. I say being politically correct is hogwash. If you're interested in my "true" feelings read this post on my blog http://tinyurl.com/4mwuwa
:~) |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:29 PM on 07.02.08 |
->> My comments had nothing to do with gender either. Nothing at all. My comments are on the plain old rudeness that certain people show another for no reason.
And Delane-my comment about NEVER QUIT didn't have to do with shooting sports full time,per se, but SHOOTING and making a living doing it. I don't know what the percentage is of photographers who make a living just shooting sports and I have asked if anyone knows. Disagree with me if you want, but I am living proof that that theory works. I know many, many more talented photographers than myself who don't get the work I get. I also know/knew some amazing photographers who gave up-they quit. The going got tough and they quit. My 20's were full of...angst, and it was because everyone I knew was at great large dailies in great areas while I was at small papers in small towns where cow tipping was what they did for fun. Working for a crap daily in PA that thought a cow grazing in the sun was a better front page photo that the Challenger blowing up in mid air, killing all 7 on board. Being yelled at because I was sent to a fire and came back with no images of flames-because there were no flames, just smoke.
I never quit. I quit this one staff job without one to go to because I was so miserable but I knew I wasn't quitting photography.Fortunately, 2 weeks later I got a job on a paper at the NJ Shore-the one place on earth I REALLY wanted to be. I couldn't quit-it's my drug. And because I didn't quit, didn't give in to all these people who told me "you suck, you're never going to make it find a new career," "don't call us coz we won't call you-we never heard of you," "you went to RIT and you are a technical moron?"I can proudly say I am thrilled with where I am TODAY!
When I got my first job, I asked the chief photographer why he hired me, knowing that the full day of shooting which was my interview was a bunch a lousy images. He was an amazing photographer named Mitch Wojonarowicz who could get the most boring assignment and come back with an award winning image every time-I am sure you all know someone like that. He said to me that he saw my drive,my passion, my hunger-that I was willing to move 300 miles away to a town I never even visited before for a job. He knew I was going to work harder than anyone else and learn.
There are a lot of reasons why people get hired for jobs. Talent is very important but when there are thousands of talented shooters in my market and I get calls all the time, I know it goes further. I hear from my clients, and the people I shoot, "oh, we had this event last week and the photographer came in and didn't care that he blocked everyone, he was rude, he acted like he was the photogod and he didn;t take the photos we needed" etc. You could be the best photographer in the world but if you are rude, are people going to want to hire you? Maybe in the sports world-like I said I don't know much about that world, but with the jobs I get it wouldn't get you a call back. And when I am shooting a concert or something else for the paper, I am representing them so I would never even think of being rude.
And I got the feeling that Dianna's cameras were tampered with not as someone playing a joke. I got several emails from people where similar things happened to them. One guy has another photographer hold down his shutter to fill up his buffer WHILE he was walking to the event. |
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Dianna Russell, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 6:23 AM on 07.03.08 |
->> Guess what? Gender was not part of my comments either. It is the rudeness and blatant disrespect for others that I wanted to highlight.
I have dealt with those who obviously want to see me fail -- starting as a student dealing with a university that should have encouraged success but instead put up roadblocks. (Those who have been around SportsShooter for awhile know what I'm talking about.) I'd rather not dig up that history anyway, thank you very much.
There have been many instances of those doing their best to discourage me -- even to the point of trying to ruin shots that could never be repeated by putting their hand in front of the lens, unplugging strobes etc. I won't get into any more detail but I'm sure you get my point.
I also deal with family members that just can't understand why I love shooting sports and why I push myself so hard. I went back to school later in life and while working full-time and two part time jobs. I went through five years of four hours of sleep a night and kept it up six and sometimes seven days a week. I look back now and wonder how the heck I ever did it. But it is because I love photography so much that all I wanted to do was work towards being a better photographer. So even after all the discouragement, I never gave up. The truth is, all that negative crap did was make me dig in and want it more. They don't understand what photography means to me. It is, like Debra said, my drug. Photography keeps me happy in a not so nice world.
I do believe in never quit. Quitters lose. I don't intend on being a loser. Even if I never make it to the pros as a sports photographer, I won't quit. I'll just find something else to shoot. And believe me if there is something I need to learn to be able to shoot something else, then I will find a way to learn what it is I need to know. And I won't be happy until I get it right. Sometimes just a little direction or help is all I need to kick some photo butt.
Chuck -- the Japanese comment -- The D1X's language can be changed. That is one of the things they did -- change the language to Japanese. I couldn't read the menu or figure out how to correct what was wrong. It was pretty pathetic. I would NEVER even think of messing with another photographers gear. So if they did it for fun, why was nothing *ever* said about it?
And for the record the "huh" was not from me. The baseball references certainly did not fly over my head.
Peace.
~Dianna |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:36 AM on 07.03.08 |
| ->> FYI, this is off topic from the thread but I thought it was useful information......dianna, I figured that's what you were talking about. so here's a little tidbit of advice that I started doing several years ago. since cameras have gotten so complicated, I mean they're computers now, only with a lot more ways to muck things up, I have made it a habit to carry the manual for whatever camera I'm using with me in my bag at all times. when I was shooting nikon's d2h's had a couple of the books, one in my bag and one in my car. when I switched to canon mark III's a whole new system I kept one in my car and one in my bag, later I got one of those handy little canon notebooks which also had all the mk III instructions in it. of course one of the great things about the mark III was the menu was so user friendly I really didn't have much problem with knowing where to go to fix things. but having the manual with you would be a good thing to get in the habit of doing. |
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Lane Christiansen, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Jasper | IN | USA | Posted: 10:03 AM on 07.03.08 |
->> Thanks Manuello for reaching out to the female photog community.
I think the only time I had a run in with a gender issue is one time when a college team I had been covering all year had made it to a championship game for the school paper. I was told that they could not allow me to go due to being the only female of the four reporters/photogs going. Traveling for a college paper meant sharing a motel room which they said was the reason why I could not go. I had a hissy fit and went with them turning their heads ignoring the fact that I went.
I haven't exactly entered the job field yet. I'm doing my third internship at The Herald in Jasper, IN right now and just about to finish up. What an AMAZING experience I have had here.
http://www.lanechristiansen.com |
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Jody Gomez, Photographer
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Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 10:46 AM on 07.03.08 |
->> Hey girls, Debra Rothenberg and I were talking the other day and she mentioned how cool it would be for us to have a girls' get together. I think it's a great idea and something we should see about doing. We could figure out where everyone is and find someplace in the middle. Maybe we can turn it into a weekend workshop of some sort with a round table where we all can share tips, experiences, and advice with each other. Maybe go on photo shoots together or something.
Anyone else think this is a good idea? If so, let me know and I'll form a list and see if we can get this thing organized.
Jody |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 1:39 PM on 07.03.08 |
->> Is amazing how one small comment will take other wheels, other meanings and take you to other roads. Still great to see that healthy debates can take place without us acting like cowboys & Indians and even greater seeing other girls posting as well. So Please keep it coming. ALL IS GOOD.
I have only been a SS member for a couple of months or so. And after reading more than once some female comments re how NASTY & RUDE they felt they were treated in here I had to stand with them. Each time they voiced their feelings it went to dead ears and NOBODY gave a damn.
Again my hat to ALL those WOMEN in here. And to any other man ask yourself this question? Do I have a daughter, a sister, a wife a mother and would I like if she was treated this way?
For ANY of you who think that in 2008 is still COOL to behave in such a poor manner and that some jokes, depending on the moment, seriousness of it and the place, are done in good gestured and for the fun of it, then think again. If you are at the receiving tail of those good ole’ boys jokes then you may see it differently. I am sure that Walter Iooss wouldn’t be too happy if you changed his setting at the Olympics and neither would S.I.
In the early 80’s when I got my break at my newspaper in Chattanooga, Tennessee more than once someone also changed my camera settings at a baseball park and I didn’t have problems with it. I just knew I had to check it each time I came back from the toilet. Then they went too far and took my film out of my camera.
Also around that time in Chattanooga a street name changed took place. So 9th street turned into Martin Luther King.
It was very interesting and very symbolic since we kept calling it 9th street yet black folks would call it MLK. A good chunk of that road passed through those black neighborhoods. Every now and then a couple of my fellow photographers after our shift was over would say to me, “Hey come with us for a couple of beers and maybe after a while we can all go down on 9th street and shoot some niggers.” But really they didn’t mean any harm.
Some may say, “Well that ain’t happening today” or “that is not the case in here.” And you are probably right, but the point is that something else takes place which to you and me maybe appropriated but no to someone else MALE OR FEMALE.
That is why in the last few yrs plenty of top Fortune 500 had had their day in court due to so many of those cooler jokes which were done. Regardless of gender, race, religion, or color, “In a friendly way but she/him took it the wrong way “ At the end and when it mattered the jury also didn’t think it was funny.
Sadly today, the trick is to know what is ok and what is not. Lots of things have changed. LPD went cassette then cd, movies went DVD, Film went digital yet we here in the USA are stuck in the same old train of thoughts? Folks we better jump off that steam engine train and catch a jet.
I encourage all of you too read the forums on APA, ASMP or EP (which I was one of its early founding members) and you will see the professionalism that goes in there when it comes to questions and feedback. DO we act like Tom & Jerry? Some times close to it but still civil & respectful with each other. There is not flexing muscles or the I can shoot better than you holy crap. We know who we are and we believe in our business sense and talent and so does our clients.
Ironically the way PLENTY behave in here is almost the same way we are perceived by plenty of our clients or even folks who don’t know much about our business.
In MOST of those eyes and brains we are:
1. The lower ranking of any form of photography, meaning we make the least amount of $$ but we do get a few bones and breadcrumbs to keep us smiling.
2. W e don’t deserve better treatment. Why should we if we don’t practice it at home (Meaning here).
3. We are the last person they will call only when in a pinch or the first one to call when the job is free or for a few bucks.
4. We are PAPARAZZIE PAPARAZZIE so “like sharks” let them fend for each other.
5. Just add your own in here… there’re plenty others.
Folks from my original post all I wanted was to remind you of the Golden Rule which doesn’t get any simpler, “Tread others same as you would treat yourself.”
When there is respect towards others then every positive outcome will trickled down our way too. Remember character does matter.
More 2 Come
mp
http://www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Dianna Russell, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 3:47 PM on 07.03.08 |
->> Chuck -- Thanks. Great idea.
Jody -- Also a great idea. You have my email.
~D |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 3:56 PM on 07.03.08 |
->> Ooooooo kaaaayyyyy...my head is spinning and I think I'm done with this thread.
I'm obviously missing something when I read Manuello postings.
Wow (head still spinning) |
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