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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

American Cowboy photo contest
Greg Ferguson, Photographer
Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 10:02 PM on 06.27.08
->> Here's another reason why the industry is in such bad shape...

http://www.americancowboy.com/photo_contest/index.shtml

American Cowboy Magazine is running a photo contest for "Amateurs only!", where they steal all the rights to the photos without compensation to the photographer.

It's obvious why they are targeting only amateurs - the pros would understand their rights and not give them the use of a photo. It's really sad and sick that a magazine would stoop to this level to provide themselves with images for their site and print.

The current contest theme is closed but it looks like there are two more to go.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Walter Calahan, Photographer
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 10:06 PM on 06.27.08
->> "Photo Contest category:Humorous Horses"

I've yet to meet a horse that tells a good joke.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (4) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (1) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Greg Ferguson, Photographer
Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 10:10 PM on 06.27.08
->> Ever heard of a horse laugh?
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 10:13 PM on 06.27.08
->> I have two horses. They do not laugh. They make noises, but it is we human beings who think the horse is laughing.
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Mark Smith, Photographer
Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 10:53 PM on 06.27.08
->> Walter, I would have sworn you were old enough to remember Mr. Ed.
 This post is:  Informative (1) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (1) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 10:56 PM on 06.27.08
->> I think its for the photographers who will submit to the contest and make a Horses "ASS" of the industry
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Kevin Clifford, Student/Intern, Photographer
Reno | NV | United States | Posted: 1:24 AM on 06.28.08
->> Horses do laugh...well sort of:

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080622/483/a5b64862425744f08.../
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 1:43 AM on 06.28.08
->> So, trying to push this back on track...

It'd be great if some editors could talk to the editors of that magazine and explain to them why this is such a bad thing, both for their magazine, for professional photographers, and for the amateurs who are going to be exploited.

I've seen the magazine on the racks, and they're in need of pro-quality photos, not more amateur photos, especially stolen ones.
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 8:17 AM on 06.28.08
->> Mark

I did watch Mr. Ed as a kid. Horses, and ducks, make noises that sound to us as laughter, but that's our anthropomorphizing their sounds.

http://www.walterpcalahan.com/Cheers/Musings/Entries/2006/10/10_Dreamer.htm...

So many magazines are simply trying to publish on the cheap.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 11:14 AM on 06.28.08
->> greg, if you check almost every one of these contests do the same thing. look in most magazines from costco to parade and they all have the same rules...you enter, you sign over the rights by entering. and it's always in the small print right in the middle of the rules section. I truthfully don't think anyone will ever change it because, just like here at sportsshooter you have a boatload of people who just don't care about making money or owning their photos. to be able to have bragging rights that "I won so and so contest or I was published in such and such magazine" is usually all they care about.
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 2:39 PM on 06.28.08
->> Chuck, contest rules HAVE been changed because the sponsors were contacted and realized how bad it was for the photographers.

I don't remember if it was Microsoft and/or Apple, but there were two big contests last year and both rewrote their rules, and republished the changes to clarify their intent, after they got a lot of messages about their rights-grab intent.

American Cowboy is a potential customer to me because I concentrate on cowboys. Their contest is so wrong that I'd rather point that out how bad the contest rules are instead of keeping quiet and letting others be abused. I might piss them off (and probably will knowing the cowboy world) but at least I've said it's wrong.

And, even though it happens a lot, we should not ignore it. Doing so will only make it more common. This site has a lot of budding professionals who want recognition, but that's no reason to allow their rights to be stolen. There is a nice middle ground for both the publishers and the photographers. A win/win helps everyone.

That's my $0.02
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 4:40 PM on 06.28.08
->> go for it bro.
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Mark Smith, Photographer
Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 1:32 AM on 06.29.08
->> Walter, I was just sure you'd remember episode 56, you know, where Wilbur's father was planning to remarry, so Ed tricked Wilbur into thinking that the woman's daughter was the bride. I think this pretty much proves that horses have a sense of humor, and faced with such scientific data, I feel pretty certain you'll agree....or..not.
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Robert Deutsch, Photographer
NY | NY | USA | Posted: 10:45 AM on 06.29.08
->> Oh, Wilburrrrrr.....
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (1) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 12:18 PM on 06.29.08
->> Greg is up to us, instead of editors , to send letters or talk to those folks running that photo contest or for that matter any ONE WAY photo contest that we may find out there.

Do you have the info/name/emails to any of those folks? Put it here.

I will be happy to send them an email. That is the best way to have things happen. We as a force can make those changes and if they dont hear from us then why change anything at all.

That said, input from any photo editors out there is always welcome as well. But we must raise our voices and speak for all those "amateurs or professionals" who are clueless.

Today is the finals of the football Europe Cup. I think Spain, the way they have been playing, may beat Germany but it could be close. Guys dont miss it it will be a great match. Crazy how in the USA they play it with their hands instead of their feet :) Never understood that.

More 2 come

MP

http://www.ManuelloPaganelli.com
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 5:05 AM on 06.30.08
->> Thank you for your comments Manuello. Others seem to have forgotten that they can make a difference. I have already sent an email to the following people.

The contest entry email address is: photo@americancowboy.com
The publisher's name and email address is: Bill Garrels, bgarrels@americancowboy.com
The COO and group publisher's name and email address is: Andy Clurman, aclurman@aimmedia.com

In addition, I sent a note to Carolyn Wright, who puts out the Photo Attorney blog, and regularly posts notices of photographer-unfriendly contests like this.
http://www.photoattorney.com
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Scott Evans, Photographer
Bay Village | OH | USA | Posted: 10:15 AM on 06.30.08
->> As I see it many of the problems that we've discussed on SS lately are more the fault of the outlets taking advantage of the naive amateur. There's a far greater chance that the professional photog community can influence editors and mag companies about the problems that such a thing causes than to think you'll get the masses of amateur shooters to understand and/or care. Whether we like it or not, we live/work in an exceptionally self-centric world in which many amateur shooters simply have no motivation to do anything differently. If access to contributing to mags, papers, contests, is restricted by those running the same, then you might see some change. Relying on the anonymous benevolence of the amateur to step aside from things like this (assuming they even see why they would) is most likely just going to frustrate everyone further. To fix this, it has to occur at the source of the problem...the amateur submitting images is more a symptom of the problem rather than the problem itself imo.
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 11:23 AM on 06.30.08
->> I received an email from Bill Garrels this morning. He nicely said they will rework or cancel the contest, and deeply apologized if it showed any disrespect to professional photographers.

I thanked him for his rapid response and suggested that being upfront on the contest prizes, limiting the usage of the winning photos and allowing the photographer to retain the copyrights would go a long way to fixing the problem. It's a win/win as I see it.
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 11:28 AM on 06.30.08
->> "As I see it many of the problems that we've discussed on SS lately are more the fault of the outlets taking advantage of the naive amateur"

I agree 100%. It's a predatory behavior that really bothers me. Stealing images from people who do not know their value is the same as stealing candy from babies. Allowing them to continue that behavior only condones it in their minds - "It must be OK since nobody complained"

This, like so many other problems we experience, can be fixed by people caring, speaking up, and showing that there are workable solutions to the problems. Failing to do so only allows the problem to compound until "it's always been that way and everyone is doing it" and nobody is able to make headway.
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Thread Title: American Cowboy photo contest
Thread Started By: Greg Ferguson
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