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Best way to learn another language
Shelley Cryan, Photographer
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New England | CT | USA | Posted: 10:11 AM on 06.07.08 |
->> Following up on an earlier thread, which discussed what language you'd like to learn:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=29632
What's the best way you've found to learn another language?
I'm fluent in French, and got that way through a combination of schooling, computer-based course, living in France for a summer, watching French movies, and spending time in French-speaking Africa. What about you? |
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Svein Ove Ekornesvaag, Photographer
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Aalesund | Møre og Romsdal | Norway | Posted: 10:45 AM on 06.07.08 |
->> Listen and read a lot of the language. When I were learning german I used to read german newspapers on the web. As a photographer I don't think it's important to write a foreign language perfect but more to understand what people say to you and to get understood. I've forgotten how to speak german fluent, but I still understand what people say.
I'm trying to pick up some italian words now by reading italian. It's quite fascinating that I already understand a lot of the words without knowing any Italian words before. |
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Dennis Wierzbicki, Photographer
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Plainfield | IL | USA | Posted: 11:10 AM on 06.07.08 |
->> Shelley - I've had to learn "foreign" languages for my job, and the "click" moment for me that made it easier was setting aside my goofy fear of sounding stupid in my attempts to speak the language. Once I realized "of course you're gonna sound stupid" and accepted this, I found it a lot easier to just jump in and practice. After all, this is how kids learn a language, and I would usually be ecstatic to casually speak any second (third, etc) language as well as a 4 year-old native speaker.
Now, being able to conduct business in another language is entirely a different matter. This is a LOT harder, and having had the privilege of working in Italy for extended periods (and having lived there for 3+ years), I can attest that this is very difficult and exhausting. As much as I love the country, culture and all that is Italy, I would finish a day's work totally and inexorably worn out and just want to hit the sack at the end of the work day. Of course, I would rally and end up enjoying supper late into the night ;)
As far as which methods I think are the most effective, I have found the Pimsleur course works pretty well, coupled with watching films or TV in the target language. Ideally, being able to immerse yourself for an extended period of time in an area where the language is spoken, helps immensely.
I have read that you should delay reading in the target language as long as possible, as this could confound learning the language, and should instead practice speaking (including a devotion to exact diction and pronunciation) and listening above all else.
We all learn in different ways, though, so whatever method works best for an individual, the most important thing is to just go out and practice, practice, practice, and not get hung up on how much of a neophyte you may be. |
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Mike Carlson, Photographer
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Bayonet Point | FL | USA | Posted: 12:08 PM on 06.07.08 |
->> In a way similar to Dennis has described - use it. Speak it. But, most importantly, find someone who speaks it and find the "real" language. I've lived for multiple years each in Turkey, Egypt and Tanzania and have had to learn Turkish, Arabic and Swahili, in addition to the French and English in which I was fluent from living in Canada.
Unfortunately, as intelligent as I like to believe I am, the way I learned the most of any of those languages was to get in there and on the streets.
Think of it this way, how many English-learners are confused by our everyday slang? You can learn the "proper" way to speak English, but how many native English speakers use (or even know) all of the proper grammar rules that many language-learning courses try to explain?
For example, I learned my Turkish fruits and vegetables from a little old man who owned the shop on my corner. He taught me the Turkish and I helped him learn the English versions, along with other simple parts of common conversations.
I realize, as Dennis mentioned, that it's difficult to realistically immerse yourself in a language/culture for extended periods of time, but anyone looking to learn/practice a language would serve themselves well by looking for native speakers locally (ie here in the US). Not only will the 'learner' get a chance to hear the accent, get feedback, learn the 'working' version of the language compared to the 'book' version, but I can guarantee that the native speaker will appreciate the opportunity to share and even use his/her/their native tongue...think of Dennis' exhaustion with Italian in reverse for those who have to come here and speak the foreign language of English 24/7. |
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Dennis Wierzbicki, Photographer
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Plainfield | IL | USA | Posted: 12:30 PM on 06.07.08 |
->> Mike - good post. Made me think of something I actually tried when attempting to learn Russian. I found a local set of Russian clubs (a couple social clubs and a sporting club) and I contacted them and asked if I could attend their meetings. These clubs were veritable gold mines of native-speakers MORE than happy to share their mother tongue and stories of the home country, and as Mike said, they were excited to practice their nascent English skills with me.
Finding the clubs was a bit of a challenge (this was in the mid-90's when the Web wasn't quite as well-developed as it is now), so I went to several Russian restaurants and fond native speakers and asked them. Now with the Web, it should be simpler to find clubs where ex-pats and immigrants congregate.
In bigger cities (I was living in Louisville, KY at the time I needed to learn Russian, and it wasn't that easy), there frequently are areas where people from other countries settle. I know Chicago is full of these fabulous ethnic areas, like Greektown, Little Italy, the Polish neighborhoods near Midway Airport, etc., and these would be wonderful places to come as close to full immersion without leaving your home town. Good indicators that you've found one of these neighborhoods are dual language store signs, and especially the signs outside churches. |
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Tom Ervin, Photographer, Assistant
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Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 1:30 PM on 06.07.08 |
->> The Sunday Times had a story on Robert Capa. In the story had this little tidbit
He (Capa) spoke seven languages, though none of them well, so that friends dubbed his heavily accented remarks “Capanese”. |
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Wally Nell, Photographer
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CAIRO | EG | EGYPT | Posted: 3:33 PM on 06.07.08 |
->> If you want to speak it well, then full-immersion is the only way to go in conjunction with a good language school. Just learning in a classroom, or from a book, or a course, is not going to do the trick. As Mike posted, your real learning comes on the streets, when you have to make conversation, or have to buy from locals on the street, or find your way around in taxis.
I have now lived in Egypt for about 3 years and we made a point of finding a good Arabic language school. Both my wife and I did that, but we only really progressed once we hit the streets. It gets a little confusing when you go to different Arabic speaking countries, and the Arabic is different! Like here in Egypt the slang word 'meshee' means 'OK'. In Yemen it means "not OK'!!! It got very confusing at one point! I mean I asked if it was OK, and then they complained!
Submersing yourself into a different culture is an amazing experience. Learning the recognize the different values, which compared to western values, is just different, not wrong.
If/when you choose a language to learn, do yourself the favour and try full immersion, ... if you have the time to do it. It is most rewarding! |
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Aaron Bernstein, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Bloomington | IN | USA | Posted: 4:11 PM on 06.07.08 |
| ->> Not to hijack the thread, but has anyone used the Rosetta Stone software packages? I'm specifically interested in the Spanish (Latin America) package, but I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has used it. |
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Ian Elliott, Photographer
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. | . | USA | Posted: 5:11 PM on 06.07.08 |
->> Aaron
I am currently using Rosetta Stone Latin American version.
It is a total immersion program, no English at all
I am trying to learn Spanish, because I need it every day now. I find if I practice on the locals, they will help me a lot. It's a new experience for me but Rosetta Stone is working for me, be it ever so slowly.
I am also immersed in the culture, and that makes a huge difference.
I also live, eat, and drive in the Spanish system and that helps every day
I see Spanish billboards and newspapers every day, I get thousands of chances to practice learning words every day
Cheers....
Ian |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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Live HVN : Work SFO-NYC | | | Posted: 11:06 PM on 06.07.08 |
->> I seem to have absolutely no ability to learn a new language. I tried to learn French multiple times. I have worked in France quite a few times in the past few years. I have flown countless flights on Air France (I fly them from NYC-Paris-Hong Kong and the return a few times a year). I have shot French weddings where everyone around me speaks French.
.....so speaking French would come in handy. I have tried online learning, tried to use audio study. French movies , etc etc. I have tried repeatedly
.........I guess I am the way to NOT learn a foreign language. |
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Rainier Ehrhardt, Photographer
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Augusta | GA | USA | Posted: 11:28 PM on 06.07.08 |
->> I second the total immersion theory. When I was 5 my family moved to France and I went to French public school. I don't even remember learning French, much like I don't actually remember learning English. It's just there.
However, my mother, by the end of our 3 year stay, she could speak it decently, and could get along daily tasks pretty well. She was 46.
When you have to speak it, read it, use it to survive, you learn real fast.
But the younger you are the easier it is.
Which is why I'm so disappointed in foreign language teaching in the U.S. You don't get to it until 8th or 9th grade, and by then, you're too busy trying to get laid and your brain has already begun to close doors.
Many of the Dutch, and Belgians, and to an extent, the Germans speak up to 4 or 5 languages, because of their geography. I once met a boy in Borsele, Netherlands who spoke English, Dutch, Flemish, French, and German all fluently. He was 7. I couldn't believe it. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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Live HVN : Work SFO-NYC | | | Posted: 11:40 PM on 06.07.08 |
->> Rainer
When I lived in Western Mass our next door neighbour was from Puerto Rico. She used to speak to my daughter, who was 2 when we moved there, almost entirely in Spanish. After a while it was cute, she'd speak to my daughter in Spanish and my daughter would respond in English.
We moved, as did our neighbour. While we still speak to our neighbour and see her when we can, I loved having 'live in language lessons' for my daughter. While she didn't speak in Spanish, she clearly understood it and for whatever reason answered in English.
She'd tell her to get Mom or Dad, or tell her to go inside and get her a snack, or put the toys away, you name it, always in Spanish....and my daughter would go and do it.
I was recently at a wedding in Hong Kong where one of the guests had their son, who was 9, speaking in English, French, German and Mandarin. That impressed the hell out of me. It was nothing to the boy. His Mom was American, Dad was German, they lived in Hong Kong and they thought French would be a good language for him, as they were both fluent. |
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Osamu Chiba, Photographer
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Vista | CA | USA | Posted: 1:17 AM on 06.08.08 |
->> I am speaking only Japanese to my daughter, Maya, who will be 2 years old next month. And she's learning pretty well. Of course she's learning English from everyone else. It's very interesting to see how Maya is becoming bilingual naturally. (My wife is already having a hard time to understand her sometimes. Haha.)
But like Wally said, without full immersion, she won't understand the Japanese language perfectly. She needs to experience the culture. There are something the Internet or textbooks can not teach...
O |
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Aaron Rhoads, Photographer
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McComb | MS | USA | Posted: 2:29 AM on 06.08.08 |
->> Steven,
I think the reason you cannot catch on with French, reading the tone of you post, is your attitude. As in you don't have one. ;))
I read some where that the French are prejudice...against anyone who can't speak fluent French. |
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Jeffery Patch, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Huntington Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 4:51 AM on 06.08.08 |
| ->> I've had great success in learning the basics of a few languages with the Pimsleur audio programs. The full courses are very expensive, but Barnes & Noble sells intro versions for $20. They consist of ten thirty minute lessons and you will have a good grasp of the language after completing them. I recommend them for travellers or those who are still deciding if they really want to learn or not. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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Live HVN : Work SFO-NYC | | | Posted: 6:05 AM on 06.08.08 |
->> Aaron,
Funny, the wedding coordinator I work with in France, who is from the Loire Valley and works in Paris, said the same thing. She tells me that despite my "holier than thou New York attitude, I am not nearly stuck up enough to embrace French"
.......so maybe I need to work on being a snob :0) |
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