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Picture first, then first aid? Or no aid?
Fredrik Naumann, Photographer
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Oslo | Oslo | Norway | Posted: 11:34 AM on 05.21.08 |
->> With reference to the top picture on this page:
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2008/05/20/535782.html
(caption reads: national and international photographers photograph a man shot by police during the last few days unrest in SA)
I am troubled by this picture. The caption doesn't say if the man is wounded or dead. But for the sake of argument, lets assume he is NOT dead. How many photographers needs to get the same picture before at someone considers helping a man that has been shot? Obviously we don't see what happens the next few minutes, but the picture seems to suggest no one is rushing to provide some first aid, or check on his status. One photographer takes the time to chimp, does that really take precedence over helping another human being?
While I am well aware of the "I-am-impartial-I-don't-get-involved-I-only-document" argument, I find it a weak argument in a situation like this, for the following reasons:
- "the world's need to know" has clearly been covered by a bunch of photographers who already has taken the picture
- there doesn't seem to be any imminent danger to the photographers present. (but i am only guessing)
- if photojournalism is mainly meant to be a good thing, surely it would be even better to help another human being directly
I am not troubled by photographers taking pictures showing the brutality of a place like South Africa, that is an important task (which I try to do sometimes myself). However, it seems like in a situation like this, the incident was covered so much at least one photographer could take the time to check upon the victim. Or? |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 11:51 AM on 05.21.08 |
| ->> That image of all those photographers gathered like vultures is disturbing. |
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Joshua Sy, Student/Intern
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 12:10 PM on 05.21.08 |
->> That IS really disturbing. I'm not even sure the picture would be worth a damn in any case. With this many guys around trying to get this photo, you have to wonder how many were shooting photos of the mob that actually shot the guy, and thus how many more photographers were actually on the scene.
Maybe this is a statement of how dog-eat-dog photojournalism is getting (where everyone feels the need to keep on shooting/filming just to make sure they have "the shot" like everyone else does, and carry on knowing that they may lose their jobs to cutbacks regardless). Then again, it could be the bystander effect, where every other photog thinks someone else is going to do something to help (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect) |
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Mike Ullery, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Piqua | OH | USA | Posted: 12:11 PM on 05.21.08 |
->> It is difficult to tell from a single photograph what the whole story might be. If I had to guess, I would say that the man is alive judging from the fact that his head seems to be still somewhat raised. If he is indeed alive, the photo is despicable. If he is dead, it is only slightly less disgusting.
It kind of makes our "civilized" papparazzi who stalk celebrities like vultures seem almost human. (For the record, that is not honest hard-working shooters covering events, but rather the hide-in-the-bushes, chase-the-celebrity-at-high-speed-then-cause-them-to-hit-you-with-their-car-to-get-a-violent-reaction-type wanna-be-famous people with cameras.) |
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Marty Price, Photographer
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Concord | NC | USA | Posted: 12:20 PM on 05.21.08 |
| ->> That is disturbing, especially since it seems the situation has been worked...couple of guys looking around, chimping, etc. I know it is important to get the message out but the message this image sends is that we are non feeling, work obsessed animals. This image makes us all look bad. |
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Aaron Bernstein, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Bloomington | IN | USA | Posted: 12:29 PM on 05.21.08 |
->> http://tinyurl.com/3jycba
If you read the caption here, it indicates he was hit with a rubber bullet, several pictures down in the sequence getty moved, there are images of him being treated by a paramedic. (image# 81164925) Jumping to conclusions is never a good thing, but it seems all to common on this board. |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 12:57 PM on 05.21.08 |
->> Aaron,
Thanks for the follow-up.
The image is still disturbing. |
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Svein Ove Ekornesvaag, Photographer
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Aalesund | Møre og Romsdal | Norway | Posted: 1:36 PM on 05.21.08 |
| ->> I was quite shocked to see so many photographers standing around a wounded man like that. But maybe my thoughts on how war photographers work are totally wrong. Seeing they work like that reminds me of paparazzis taking picture of a drunk celebrity or something. |
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Vincent Johnson, Photographer
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Chicago | IL | USA | Posted: 1:54 PM on 05.21.08 |
->> Obviously I wasn't there, and while the photo does strike me at first, there a few things that get me think about it.
First, there's a pretty good size mob there, not all photographers. Given the size (overweight) of a few of the photographers, I would say that unless this guy was injured right next to them it took them a few minutes to walk there. Meaning he's probably being helped by someone already.
Second, a few people seem to be looking to their right. Maybe paramedics?
Third, if you are posting on this site you are in some form or another a professional photographer. You should know that one image can be edited from a bunch and be misleading.
The real disturbing aspect of this is how many of us, who may work in the journalism industry might have thrown our impartiality out the window and snapped judgment about this snapped images. |
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Jason Jump, Photographer
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Humble | TX | USA | Posted: 2:19 PM on 05.21.08 |
->> Not sure anyone is "jumping to conclusions" as the OP gives a scenario and what would you do type of question.
The thing that caught my attention that has not been addressed is the fact this man was shot by a policeman. So I would say if a situation should arise such as that, since the "police" are involved, I'm not sure what "my" role would be.
I would think that if a policeman shot the man, because he was a threat then they wouldn't want "me" getting in the way of that scene. And if he was a threat he is probably a dead man. And if they didn't kill him I would suspect that the "police" would handle the situation until the medics arrived or would ask for help. I just don't know. It's hard to speculate on something like that.
I'm glad I just photograph high school sporting events where I "hope" nothing like that ever takes place, especially since I primarily photograph "Christian" high schools :). |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 4:08 PM on 05.21.08 |
->> I don't think that Canon is going to be using THIS photo in their next advertising campaign.
On a more serious note, provide help if you can. Just a few days ago I came upon the scene of a one car rollover accident. The driver probably had a concussion, broken wrist, and broken leg but her biggest problem was that she was going into shock.
I reached into the backseat of the remains of her car and grabbed a sweatshirt to put around her, then I stood by the empty window frame to keep the wind off her (very windy day) until the paramedics arrived.
I was returning to town after having done a wedding, so the car was filled with cameras, lenses, and lights and the thought of photographing this scene never entered my mind. Someone needed help, and I provided what little help I could, and then got myself and my car out of the way of the arriving emergency crews as quickly as possible.
This was a scared college girl who was lucky to be alive, and knowing that she was going to be alright is worth by far more than the very small check I may have been able to get from an area newspaper for a photo of a banged up car.
Incidentally, four door Saturns handle a rollover better than I would ever have imagined. By the look of the car, one would think that she would have been in by far worse shape. |
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Al Santos, Photographer
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Silver Spring | MD | USA | Posted: 4:15 PM on 05.21.08 |
| ->> Curtis, thank you for the link on Nick UT. What an amazing story. Nick UT is remarkable human being and a photographer. |
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Mark Smith, Photographer
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Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 4:18 PM on 05.21.08 |
| ->> It's hard to say what I'd do in this particular situation, I can't read a dagbladet thing. |
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Kirby Yau, Photographer, Assistant
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 4:33 PM on 05.21.08 |
| ->> Cheers Michael. Good job. -K |
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Grant Gartland, Photographer
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Savage | MN | USA | Posted: 5:26 PM on 05.21.08 |
| ->> Truly you would have to judge the situation by what your training is. As a lifeguard trained in CPR and First Aid (depending on the state) I may be required by law to offer my assistance. It would also depend on if their were other personal on site that I was sure were of a higher level (i.e.: first responder, ems, emt, paramedic, ect.) As a person you will never be faulted for offering you assistance, you might get chewed out by your editor, but a person's life is never more important then a photograph. |
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Alan Stewart, Photographer
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Corydon | IN | USA | Posted: 5:35 PM on 05.21.08 |
->> I'm a human first; a photographer second.
If I'm the first one there, I'm helping. |
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Kohl Threlkeld, Student/Intern
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Monroe | MI | USA | Posted: 9:30 PM on 05.21.08 |
| ->> I think the guy kneeling front and center with the light jeans on is holding a cigarette in his left hand. Must make it hard to zoom. |
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James Broome, Photographer
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Tampa | FL | US | Posted: 9:31 PM on 05.21.08 |
->> I'm with Jason Jump on this. If the 'victim' was in fact shot by police, I can't imagine I'd be 'helping' him at all.
Would you folks be trying to help the bank robber wounded by police during a standoff in Manhattan? |
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Fredrik Naumann, Photographer
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Oslo | Oslo | Norway | Posted: 6:07 AM on 05.22.08 |
->> I am glad most here seems to be on the same page as me, trying to be "human first; a photographer second" as put by Alan. The historic Nick Ut reference shows it is also possible to balance the two.
James B: can we deduct from your post anyone shot (or otherwise injured) by the police by default are criminals, and subsequently not entitled to to any help? They have it coming - so to speak?
I for one have seen quite a few innocent people shot. So I would not blindly trust the judgement of the police (certainly not the South African police) to decide who to help, any more than I would trust the police to decide for me what or who to photograph. |
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Mark Smith, Photographer
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Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 9:33 AM on 05.22.08 |
->> Fredrik, I'm not speaking for Jason and James, as they can answer for themselves, but I think the logic they are using is that if a suspect is shot by the police, then the incident is under police/lawful control. Getting involved, outside of police direction is unwise simply because it is unsafe. If you render aid to a suspect during the commission or aftermath of a crime, it is concievable that this will be deemed as interference in a police matter. It is in this sort of scenario that it is prudent to photograph what is happening without becoming involved.
Now, that is not to say that all police action is lawful, or beyond reproach. In fact, that is why the event should be photographed/filmed, etc., and a journalist's job is to do so. In James' example of a bank robbery, if a journalist were to run up to an injured robbery suspect, before the suspect had been secured by the police, I can assure you said journalist would be in deep doodoo. The suspect might be armed, might be feigning injury, might take the journalist hostage, or any of a variety of situations could arise that are beyond the scope of a journalist's, or any other bystander's control.
Now, having said all of that, the photo you posted certainly seems to be a different situation. The problem is that we just don't know all the facts. If, as it seems, the injured fellow was in need of aid, and if the police were not actively engaged with him, and medical aid was not present, i.e. not the same situation as above, then I'd drop my gear and render aid without a second thought. Essentially, if the only question at hand is simply, "Do I get a photo, or do I help my fellow man?", I drop gear and help. There could be variables, however, that make the question more complex, so regarding any given scenario, all the information must be readily available to make an informed decision. |
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Wally Nell, Photographer
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CAIRO | EG | EGYPT | Posted: 6:20 PM on 05.22.08 |
| ->> If he was indeed shot with rubber bullets, it would not have been fired at him, but into the ground where it would break up and ricochet. This has been generally used in the past in SA to break up violence in a demonstration gone out of control type situation. Perhaps he was an innocent caught in the cross fire of rubber bullets, and perhaps he was part of whatever went bad. Fredrik, SA has come a very long way since the 80's when I still lived there and photographed apartheid situations. Don't judge too soon too harshly without knowing the facts. |
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Fredrik Naumann, Photographer
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Oslo | Oslo | Norway | Posted: 4:02 AM on 05.23.08 |
| ->> Drifting slightly off topic but, the statement "it would not have been fired at him, but into the ground" isn't always true. Stressed police will routinely "forget" the correct procedure for firing rubber bullets (which btw often are metal, with a thin rubber coating). As a result many die of this "non-lethal" ammunition. |
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