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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

NPPA name change proposed
Ron Holman, Photographer
Visalia | CA | USA | Posted: 9:59 PM on 05.14.08
->> For those that care-

The Board made seven resolutions in April to change the bylaws of the NPPA being considered by its Board of Directors between now and May 27th. These resolutions will be put before the Board for final vote at its annual meeting in Louisville, KY on May 28th and 29th.

This one caught my attention:

"Resolution IV – Re-branding the NPPA
Whereas the news industry has changed significantly over the past 50 years and whereas the make-up of the membership of the NPPA has changed significantly over the past 50 years and whereas the name National Press Photographers Associations, no longer adequately represents the Association or it’s membership, be it resolved that the name of the organization be changed to The Society of Visual Journalists, effective January 1, 2009.

I. Name
A. The name of the association is the National Press Photographers Association, Inc., hereinafter referred to as NPPA.

Be changed to:

I. Name
A. The name of the association is The Society of Visual Journalists, Inc., hereafter referred to as SVJ.
Changes to the Bylaws, Procedures, Standing Rules, and any other official documents where National Press Photographers Association or NPPA is used shall be made to conform to the new name."

I'm not sure this is a better name. I guess it's the "society" element that bugs me. Sounds like old folks sitting around sipping iced tea. Not that there's anything wrong with old folks or sipping a nice cold beverage. To me it just sounds quieter and smaller than NPPA.

The rest of the proposals are here:
http://www.nppa.org/about_us/governance/amendments/2008/

-Ron
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 10:11 PM on 05.14.08
->> Oh jezzz...

Best of luck...

How many out there still pay the dues?
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Erik Markov, Photographer
Kokomo | IN | | Posted: 10:42 PM on 05.14.08
->> no dues, wish I could justify it but I just can't. The paper paid them up till last year and I just decided that $110 is a lot of money to pay for what I felt I was getting.

I rarely read the magazine as it just seemed to take a long time to get thru an article. The writing just didn't move along enough to keep my interest as it does in some other mags i.e. rangefinder, digital photo pro, pdn. I would have liked to see them add some quick hit type stuff. Interesting new websites, short equipment review pieces, some humorous stuff.

And the website just didn't have the kinda info I was looking for, especially in a clear concise manner. Using RSS on my yahoo page I've got 50 feeds covering general photography, journalism practices, multimedia and photo gear. I can cover more stuff that way, without having to check webpages everyday, and because I've picked the sites that interest me, I know I won't miss much of anything. And those sites lead me to other sites and other ideas.
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Stew Milne, Photographer
Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 11:23 PM on 05.14.08
->> I dropped NPPA a few years ago. They weren't doing anything for me to justify the annual dues!

-sM
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Not Listed | MA | United States | Posted: 11:27 PM on 05.14.08
->> I let my membership go too.
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 11:46 PM on 05.14.08
->> Renewal is up for me, it is due by this Saturday May 17th. I am tempted to renew for the JIB and my dad likes reading news photographer [I get it here at Mizzou for free in the lab, so it just goes to my home instead]... but right now that $65 could go towards workshops fees, portfolios, etc.

So someone convince me I should keep it. I want to, but I just can't justify it now.

As for the name change. No.
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David Bailey, Photographer
Flower Mound | TX | USA | Posted: 11:57 PM on 05.14.08
->> I still pay dues but I don't like the name at all. I like to support those who support us even if I dont' agree with everything they do.
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 11:59 PM on 05.14.08
->> Can't change it if you're not a member. Can't bitch about not getting value if you don't belong....

I've wasted $110 on a lot dumber stuff... :) :) :)

Michael
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David A. Cantor, Photo Editor, Photographer
Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 12:08 AM on 05.15.08
->> Oh no, Bert won't be able to call them "that four letter organization"....
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 12:29 AM on 05.15.08
->> I quit eight years ago.
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Dave Doonan, Photographer
Kingston | TN | USA | Posted: 12:40 AM on 05.15.08
->> $110 is a lot of money for a magazine subscription.
Seems they have forgotten who made this organization.
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David Manning, Photographer
Athens | GA | | Posted: 12:59 AM on 05.15.08
->> I still pay my dues.....

... and I'm against the name change. Seems pointless and a waste of time when there's better and more important things to focus on.
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Alicia Wagner Calzada, Photographer
San Antonio | TX | USA | Posted: 1:31 AM on 05.15.08
->> To clarify further about the resolution, the SVJ name is somewhat of a placeholder while RFPs have gone out to professional "people" who do rebranding. A rebranding may be with a different name include a name change, or it may include other elements- for example, a logo that doesn't have antique cameras on it. The fact is that marketing will be very important because of all of the change in the industry. Finally, it is just a proposed resolution- it is far from a done deal.

The leadership really wants dialog on this and the restructuring resolution. So please write your regional leaders.

http://www.nppa.org/about_us/governance/board_of_directors.php


NPPA supports everyone here whether you support it or not.

I am a proud life member, and I am proud of the things that the NPPA is doing and has been doing for the past few years and will be doing in the coming years.

P.S. Patrick, if you want a reason to renew, there is a great apple discount and pcmall discount that pays for membership if you will be buying a computer. Also, the find-a-photographer service; if you are planning to attend any workshops members get much cheaper rates; if you need a job, the JIB list; we are working to support copyrights and educate you on your rights; and if you want to take pictures in a national park, we are fighting to keep you from having to pay a fee (that costs more than the NPPA membership)and working for a shield law.

You know what, there is a link.
http://www.nppa.org/about_us/why_join/benefits.html
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Kevin M. Cox, Photographer, Assistant
Galveston / Houston | TX | US | Posted: 2:11 AM on 05.15.08
->> I haven't had time to digest the other resolutions yet, but I do not agree with a name change. A new logo or things along that line are just fine, but I don't see the value in throwing away the name recognition.

I am an NPPA member and have been since college.
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Gabriel Hernandez, Photographer
Harlingen | TX | USA | Posted: 2:20 AM on 05.15.08
->> Are they changing it to National Poor Photographers Association?
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Tom Sperduto, Photographer
Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 7:00 AM on 05.15.08
->> I still pay my dues. The Find a Photographer section on the NPPA site has landed me enough freelance assignments to keep me as a member.
I don't like the name change.
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Juerg Schreiter, Photographer
Fort Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 8:02 AM on 05.15.08
->> I'm still a member.
One good reason, ... my insurance requires the membership to get coverage.
I saw some better insurance deals, but they can't write policies in Florida.
J
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Alan Look, Photographer
Bloomington | IL | United States | Posted: 8:57 AM on 05.15.08
->> If the name to SVJ is just a 'place holder', it makes no sense. Leave it what it is until the 're-branding' people complete their work. It costs a lot of money to make all those name changes in documents, websites, legal papers, etc... No sense in spending good money twice.

I just renewed.
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Allen Murabayashi, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:12 AM on 05.15.08
->> The name has very little to do with the brand. Renaming an organization that is considered ineffective by its members and past members is a superficial change at best.

Creating substantive change is more important that renaming the organization. But if changing the name is motivation for the governance, then I suppose it's worth it.

Now, will they really create change?
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Grover Sanschagrin, Photo Editor, Photographer
San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 11:15 AM on 05.15.08
->> Just having some Google fun over here.

Did you know that "SVJ" has a few interesting other uses?

It stands for "Serious and Violent Juvenile Offenders"...
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/170027.pdf

It's the name of a farm that is home to many a bull...
http://www.svjfarm.com/

It's the 3-letter symbol for the "HELLE Airport" (I'm wondering how that's pronounced)...
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Airport/airportDetails.do?airportCode=SVJ

It's used in the name of a company that manufactures "Lawn ornaments, memorials, ironworks, and more" (hmmm. memorials? nice) ...
http://www.svjcreativedesigns.com/

It's the name of an "Experimental / Psychedelic / Jam Band"...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=4...

It's the stock ticker symbol for SAVANNAH ELEC & PWR CO...
http://finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:SVJ

It's used in the name of a "web design" company...
http://www.svjdesigns.com/
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 12:12 PM on 05.15.08
->> Grover...You never cease to amaze me!

That is priceless info.

Reminds me of the time when a foreign company bought several hotels in this country and wanted to change the name to something like "All Nippon U.S." --- ANUS for short.
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David Manning, Photographer
Athens | GA | | Posted: 12:22 PM on 05.15.08
->> I wish i had the foresight to google "SVJ" before emailing my rep to tell him that this is a bad idea.

I'd prefer the NPPA to continue to focus their efforts on lobbying congress for the shield law as well as negotiating with the NFL and MLB over access and their ever-restrictive credential agreements.

Rebranding and changing the name seems like a waste of time and money, IMO.
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Shawn Lynch, Photographer, Assistant
Walpole | MA | USA | Posted: 12:35 PM on 05.15.08
->> I believe some of the reasoning behind the name change is that NPPA is a dying organization. The organization has always been open to video journalists, but not many videographers have ever joined the group according to what I've heard. They are trying to make the group more relevant and increase membership. There are ways out there of making images that aren't just still images.

I think that part of their problem is that they kind of seem like an old dinosaur compared to some of the other groups out there. They don't offer much to their members in terms of community. The message boards are ineffective compared to the ease of use of this site. There are so many places to go to learn about the photographic community anymore that seem so much "cooler" like ss.com, photoshelter, strobist, etc. I think that NPPA not only needs a name change but needs some re-branding to make themselves a much more cool and useful website/organization.

My membership also expired a couple years back. Even though my former workplace used to reimburse employees for their dues, but I still didn't even join for some reason.

I do think that if would join again some day if I found the organization more relevant than it is today.
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 12:57 PM on 05.15.08
->> Grover,

"Hell-uh"

It means "light."

--Mark
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 2:01 PM on 05.15.08
->> Well,

Thought about a lot of things pro and con, for the NPPA, I've decided to renew it for next year. This was not a no brainer for me, but I came to the decision that as long as I feel they are working for our interests - and even more importantly are working to be more relevant to what all of us do now - It is a small price to pay for the time being.

Thanks,
Patrick
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Jack Howard, Photographer, Photo Editor
Central | NJ | USA | Posted: 4:05 PM on 05.15.08
->> Is a "society" more or less ineffectual than an "association"?

Maybe they should go with "gang" or "posse" instead. It'll make those whiny letters signed by six regional co-chairs at least sound menacing and actually-actionable.
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Jeff Gritchen, Photographer
Long Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 6:07 PM on 05.15.08
->> um, Grover...what does SS stand for?

anybody in Germany want to field this one?
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 6:16 PM on 05.15.08
->> Grover: Perhaps you should look into a name change. I'm sure the marketing folks over at the NPPA could help you out.


http://tinyurl.com/6h9fru
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Grover Sanschagrin, Photo Editor, Photographer
San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 10:19 PM on 05.15.08
->> Jeff: When did I ever refer to SportsShooter.com as "SS"?

Did you happen to see the top secret memo I penned suggesting that we really need to boost our membership, and a name change is in order? Seeing that our industry is indeed changing, I thought it would be best to change the name to "StarvingShooters.com", or, SS.com for short.

Thomas: I know where you live.
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Jeff Gritchen, Photographer
Long Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 10:36 PM on 05.15.08
->> Grover,

Sorry, didn't mean to infer that YOU call sportsshooter SS, but it is often referred to SS on this message list.

I only directed the comment to you because it way a response to one of your posts.

And with two posts in a row directed at you it kinda looks like an attack.

I just ment it as a light-hearted comment

Jeff
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 10:39 PM on 05.15.08
->> wavhold!!!! that is a total phonetic spelling keeping with the spirit of this thread.............grover..it is THE "SS"...
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Mike O'Bryon, Photographer
Ft. Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 11:16 PM on 05.15.08
->> It may be a misplaced loyalty... but I'm still a member.

I've been at this gig longer than most and I remember when NPPA was the only game in town for news photographers and the Flying Short Course was like getting a PhD in photojournalism.

Granted it may not be as relevant as it once was... but I'm not ready to give up on the NPPA just yet...

My darkroom partner when I was a Miami Herald intern ( 1971 ) was Bob East... he pretty much invented the monthly clip contest... and maybe just to honor the "professor" ( my nickname for Bob )... I keep my membership active.

Now changing the name... that just seems like a waste of money.

-- Mike O'Bryon
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Vincent Johnson, Photographer
Chicago | IL | USA | Posted: 1:11 AM on 05.16.08
->> I let my membership laps for 5 years then just resigned up this year.

I think if you ask what have they done for you lately, you obviously haven't done anything for them either.

Beside sponsoring separate chapters, like Illinois Press Photographers Association, which recently was busy raising hell about the state's high school association banning photographers from state finals games. You should be damn happy that they will have lobbyists in D.C. working on getting congress to vote no on the Orphan Act. Even if it doesn’t happen, they might have done more than most of us.

You are a member. An “actual member” of something when you join. You're not just getting a subscription to a magazine or another place to enter a monthly contest. You are expected to take part in and shape that organization, because you are a member. If you don't get anything out of it, it's kind of like school, obviously you must be skipping class.

So far this year (2008) I have been stopped by police and asked for ID or questioned on 3 different occasions. All of them try to tell me it's a mater of national security. Each time I get a little more pissed off and each time I get a little more bold in my responses to the police, but every time I do I hand them my ID with my NPPA member card. I basically tell them they are crossing thin line legally and they might want to think this out. That’s usually when they drive away.

I predict that by the end of 2008 I will be arrested because of my lack of patience with their BS, and as a freelancer I will take great solace in knowing I am an NPPA member.

Photo from May 3rd, 2008. My last run it with Chicago's finest while taking a skyline sunset photo after an assignment.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vincentjohnson/2495031964/
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Robert Seale, Photographer
Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 1:32 AM on 05.16.08
->> Wow...NPPA was good enough for legions of TV photojournalists for 50 years, but now that the still photographers are shooting crappy videos we need to change the name of the organization?


Hmmmm.........
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Rafael Agustin Delgado, Student/Intern, Photographer
Pasadena | Ca | USA | Posted: 2:38 AM on 05.16.08
->> I will not loose any sleep if NPPA changes its name. However if NPPA were to changed their practices and procedures, now that will be something of interest.
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Tim Jones, Photographer
The Colony | TX | USA | Posted: 1:59 AM on 05.17.08
->> >>However if NPPA were to changed their practices and procedures, now that will be something of interest.
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Tim Jones, Photographer
The Colony | TX | USA | Posted: 2:00 AM on 05.17.08
->> Okay, I'm on the board of directors and heading to Louisville for our annual meeting in a couple of weeks...you tell me, what changes to our practices and procedures can we make that would make NPPA more useful to you, or entice you to join/remain a member?

I don't always go along with the rest of the directors, and I am always willing to give due consideration to any good proposals...I supported the "Loundy" doctrine of a few years ago (to no avail)...I voted against the dues increase a couple of years ago because it didn't establish any new member benefits/services. I probably won't vote for the name change to "SVJ" this time.

So what message would you have me deliver from current, former and potential new members? What actions would you have me/us initiate?

-Tim Jones
NPPA Region 8 Director
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
Live HVN : Work SFO-NYC | | | Posted: 10:30 AM on 05.18.08
->> The NPPA has a "known name" a name it can use for lobbying and gaining significant ground on issues based on it's long and known history.

With all the issues facing news photographers at this time (and the "SVJ's" are still news photographers regardless of the tool in their hand, just change the emblem) is focusing on rebranding the issue? Dealing with the rapid changes in various forms we face as shooters is a bigger issue. Focus on helping those in the field and you'll gain membership.

Rebranding is sweeping ideas under a rug and pointing to a shiny new logo we can point to. I'd rather deal with issues that would drive membership than waste my dues money on a rebranding.

-Steven Frischling
NPPA Member 37895
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 11:20 AM on 05.18.08
->> Roberto and Steven ---

Here, here!!!

Ditto ... could not have been said better.
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David A. Cantor, Photo Editor, Photographer
Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 11:24 AM on 05.18.08
->> As a plain nuts and bolts concept, a name change will add costs for letterhead, logos, and will make branded stock in the store obsolete. If there already is a problem in membership numbers, and the revenue that those members bring, why incur such an unnecessary expense for cosmetics? We are news photographers be it shooting stills, stills and sound or video. We are news photographers who shoot news, sports and features for news organizations be they print, broadcast television or the internet.
The organization needs to and has been adapting. That's important. The name change is just useless window dressing and sends a less serious message than that of an organization that is committed to sponsoring convergence and other skill expanding seminars while striving to educate its members for the ever changing marketplace.

Since it is baseball season, let me end with a quote from my favorite Indians manager of all time, Lou Brown.

"Forget the curveball. Go with the heater."

And for those of you who don't get that, go shoot some more baseball!
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 11:32 AM on 05.18.08
->> I should have known that if anyone could find a baseball analogy that could be used in reference to the Four Initial Organization it would be Mr. Cantor.

That is CLASSIC!

Thanks!
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Rafael Agustin Delgado, Student/Intern, Photographer
Pasadena | Ca | USA | Posted: 5:57 PM on 05.18.08
->> tim jones,

If you are still around just private message me when you have a chance. I tried a Google search with no success since you are no longer a member of SS.
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Joe Cavaretta, Photographer
Ft Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 8:12 PM on 05.18.08
->> improved website: great!
improved magazine: much better
digital clip contest: great
split from POY: stupid
name change: beyond stupid
member 12219 since 1984
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Tim Jones, Photographer
The Colony | TX | USA | Posted: 6:06 AM on 05.21.08
->> Everyone...For some reason I was bumped off SS for a few days...I'm back on now.

Joe; we're working on serious improvements to the website, the mag is indeed drastically improved, along with the monthly national clip contest being totally online now.

The split from POY wasn't our idea; we simply couldn't afford their new asking price, especially under their terms (they wanted a huge wad of cash plus, in addition, they wanted to charge our members entry fees on top of all that cash).

I agree with you about the name change.

And I've got you beat in length of membership by a few months (1983).

Right now, our number one emphasis is on improving the website...we have someone working on that pretty much full-time now.

And Rafeal, I've emailed you...I want your feedback too.
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Aaron Ansarov, Photographer
Miami/ Ft. Lauderdale /We | FL | USA | Posted: 9:11 PM on 05.21.08
->> When I read this post, I just had to chime in. I became a member of Sports Shooter a few days ago for a few reasons. None of them because I like to pay dues or buy shirts with Sports Shooter advertising on them or because I like the logo. I became a member because I entered a new phase in my life and decided it was a good time to become a member to learn from mentors who where in my spot many years prior. I have watched and read entries and articles on sports shooter for years without needing a membership until now. I have been a member of NPPA for over 8 years. Most of those years was free as a result of winning award in military photographer of the year competitions. Before that, I had absolutely no idea what NPPA was or any other organization for that matter. In the 'good old days' of pre-digital (let's say 10 years ago) we all had to rely on each other and workshops to learn the latest and greatest. Now with this new fandangled internet thingie, all I have to do is type sports photography and find all kinds of guys with you tube videos wanting to teach me all kinds of tricks for free. I am sure there are numerous reasons why the name is changing, but one of them I will mention is the industry is changing and many of the old guys don't know what to do. I scrolled down these posts and noticed a few people stating they 'stopped memberships a while ago,' they 'can't see the reason for the dues.' They 'don't even read the magazine.' Has anybody noticed these might be the same answers the populous is giving their local newspaper?
For the same reason our business of photography is about to shift, so are the structures of our industry organizations, clubs, associations. How many photo organizations do we have anyway? I know when I got out of the military (last year) one of the first things I did was become a member of the popular WPPI, PPA, ASMP and others. I was in a hurry to see what my peers where doing to make money and survive as a photographer. What I found was most of the organizations are filled with guys with the mentality that they have done the same thing over and over again so why change it. But in the past year I have noticed a couple that are really seeing the writing on the wall and making efforts of change. NPPA is one of them. There are two organizations that I can say with conviction have helped me to be successful and confident as a person and a photographer. One of them is NPPA, but the 'find a photographer' listing or the magazine may not be enough for me. I'm even listed as a mentor and get more emails from that. I enjoy reading the magazine when I get a chance (which is not often anymore) and love that I can go into the members section and look up a buddy, but I ask the question, what will this organization do for me now to excel in my path and advance my career as a photographer?
They are going through rough transitions just like everybody else in our industry. I think the name change is a little too fast and should have been thought out a little more and maybe transitioned over years, not the next 6 months. Maybe an investment in a consultant to actually provide an unbiased opinion instead of a bunch of old guys trying to think new ideas. Transitioning to a name that is universal and actually doesn't have America in it might be a good thing. How many organizations actually have America in them, but many of the members are overseas.
I was at a seminar (put on by ASMP) the other day and someone mentioned one thing that made sense. Many lawyers may not like the ABA but if they want anybody to hire them, they better be a member, Same with doctors. Each has various other groups, clubs, etc that they can join for their specific craft, but there is one that they need to be certified with. In this day where anybody who owns a camera calls themselves a photographer and charge $50 for a CD of images, maybe we should look to having an organization like this. Can you imagine a lawyer that wasn't a member of the ABA, but told you he would handle your divorce for half price? There was a point where if you worked for a newspaper you had to be a member and some that even forced you to enter the contests in an effort to gain credibility and notoriety.
Your thoughts.
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Dave Kennedy, Photographer
Danbury | CT | US | Posted: 9:41 PM on 05.21.08
->> How about...

National Multimedia Journalists Association
National Association of Frame Grabbers
Mobile Journalists of America

...whatever they call themselves it's a little like the Monty Python skit, the Society for Putting Things on to of other Things, and just about as relevant.
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Aaron Ansarov, Photographer
Miami/ Ft. Lauderdale /We | FL | USA | Posted: 10:43 PM on 05.21.08
->> In order to assure the highest levels of quality work and productivity from photographers, it will be our policy to keep all visual communicators well taught through our program of

Special High Intensity Training
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 9:59 AM on 05.22.08
->> I have posted on two blogs about associations and the NPPA name change.

First of all are you a joiner?
http://rising.blackstar.com/are-you-a-joiner.html

Next there was a posting about the name change, my comments and the comments of VP of NPPA.

http://rising.blackstar.com/why-it-may-be-time-for-me-to-quit-the-nppa.html

Comment here and there for that matter.
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
Washington | DC | US | Posted: 10:28 AM on 05.22.08
->> Aaron-

This is really small...but putting a line after your paragraph would be really nice and might make me want to read your post.


Delane
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Aaron Ansarov, Photographer
Miami/ Ft. Lauderdale /We | FL | USA | Posted: 12:29 PM on 05.22.08
->> Delane,
Sorry about that. When I typed it I had breaks> Iw asn't expecting to write so much. First time and all I had a bunch to say. Maybe I should have kept it to the second post I made, but then again, I got a Huh response.

On that note. To make things clear. It was a play on acronyms. The discussion is about changing the acronym of an organizations name. In the military we have an acronym for EVERYTHING.

Try reading the Acronym for Special High Intensity Training

AA
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Alan Look, Photographer
Bloomington | IL | United States | Posted: 12:38 PM on 05.22.08
->> We need better representation.

Case example(s):

2 (maybe 3) years ago a very large number of us got cease and desist letters from various collegiate SID's regarding our posting images of their players on this website. I was the 3rd one, and maybe the 1st regular member to get one (the first 2 were students, I don't know if they were members or not). After not being able to get any response from the NCAA, I called (maybe emailed) the NPPA. I pretty much got the brush that there wasn't an attorney to help me. No one in the NPPA office seemed concerned. Grover and other SportShooter admins took up the task and got it all resolved. The issue affected many of us.

How about the Red Vests? We all coiled over on that one with a compromise, never mind that it probably is against the NPPA code of ethics - depending on how you want to read them.

We just need someone to go to bat for us as a collective group on more of these issues and stand firm.

Thanks Tim.
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