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Going Underwater - Thoughts?
Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 4:46 PM on 05.01.08 |
->> Hi All,
With summer coming up, been looking around at the available options for underwater/surface photography. At this point, my work would be limited to pool use and surf - not SCUBA. I have the Canon 1D MKIIn. Lens-Wise, I was planning to use either my 16-35 f/2.8 II [82mm version] or my 50mm f/1.4, since I believe the 24-70 and 70-200's are both way to big.
While I would love to get one of the Aquatechs with ports and everything, they are completely out of my budget right now.
I am looking at going for the Ewa-Marine U-BXP100
http://www.ewa-marine.de/index.php?id=425&L=0
Would also need the ring adapter to allow the use of my 16-35 and another step up ring for my 50mm f/1.4
So besides checking up on my insurance, what else should I keep in mind?
Has anyone used this setup? What can you say about it? Cost is a big issue, but I don't want to risk flooding my camera with a fishtank!
If you think the Ewa-Marine bag really is a bad idea, say that to! I want to make an informed decision here.
Thanks,
Patrick |
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Harrison Shull, Photographer
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Fayetteville, WV | Asheville, NC | | Posted: 5:49 PM on 05.01.08 |
->> Most people will really slag on the Ewa bag housings.
I have had 2 Ewa bags. One for my old Nikon film cameras and now the U-AXP for my canon DSLRs. I typically use them in splashy situations rather than full underwater. However, I did spend a week snorkeling with one in Maui where the camera spent alot of time in the bag at depths of around ten feet.
Mine have performed flawlesslly and given me the chance to be creative in wet conditions that I never could have afforded otherwise.
As long as you understand their limitations and pay attention to care and maintenance, they should do what you ask of them.
Now... the price may be attractive but the downside is that - at least from my experience - there is virtually no ability to control the camera once it is in the bag. Despite what EWA may claim, trying to adjust dials, chimp, zoom, or just about anything else is virtually impossible.
My solution has been to shoot with a 16-35 gaffed taped down at 16mm. I then set the camera to one of the more autoamted settings - most often "A", but sometimes even on "P. Then shoot away.
Do your homework and know all the pluses and minuses before you get one. Still I bet that you will have a blast creating some interesting pics. After it is all said and done... a season or two with a EWA bag will let you know if you have the interest to take it to the next level with a rigid housing |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 8:19 PM on 05.01.08 |
->> Hey Harrison, Thanks for the advice, Can anyone else comment about the focusing or whatnot? No back button?
"a season or two with a EWA bag will let you know if you have the interest to take it to the next level with a rigid housing"
Thats sort of what I am thinking. |
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Bob Ford, Photographer
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Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 8:31 PM on 05.01.08 |
->> I just recently got one of these for an underwater portrait I did. The camera stayed dry, and I was able to change settings through the bag.
I really wish I had some time to play with it before heading out to the portrait. I got some usable photos, but I think my keeper rate would have gone up if was able to practice with it, and if I hadn't been shooting in a dark natatorium. |
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Chris Russick, Photographer, Photo Editor
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 9:43 PM on 05.01.08 |
->> I've shot a lot underwater. I've had housings and the uxp-100 bag. Personally, I liked the bag just fine for splashy situations. A tip for you.... Put some Rain-x on the front lens of the bag so the water sheds quickly in splash situations.
If you plan on going down below 10 feet with the bag, the buttons become depressed as a result of pressure. There is a inflator valve that you can use while underwater to blow up the bag and give some positive pressure. That said, don't squeeze all the air out of the bag on the surface and use the weight belts on the bottom of the bag while snorkeling. Otherwise you'll be fighting the positive buoyancy of the rig. I think I used to use 6lbs of lead weight. you can get them at any dive shop for $6 give or take.
If you ever decide to shoot while scuba diving, I would not recommend this bag. It's simply too hard to overcome the squeeze issues and the on camera flash does almost nothing underwater. You get a ton of bounce back from any sediment in the water.... Even if you think there is none. Let me know if you have any other specific questions. I'm more than happy to help. |
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Harrison Shull, Photographer
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Fayetteville, WV | Asheville, NC | | Posted: 10:27 PM on 05.01.08 |
->> The Ewa bags have a "finger" molded into the bag that let's you focus on the top button. Not sure about the back button focus accesibility. Finding one of the little buttons to hold down while you spin the dial to change meter mode, drive, ISO, or anything like that was all but impossible in my experience. I have only tried the 1Ds and the 5D though.
Another good suggestion for the Ewa bags is to go to a dive shop and buy a few dessicant bags to toss in the Ewa bag with the camera. The biggest problem I have around the Appalachians is the condensation that fogs up the bag's front element due to warm moist air and cool mountain streams. |
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Chris Russick, Photographer, Photo Editor
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 10:46 PM on 05.01.08 |
->> Oh, Good point Harrison. The condensation.
To overcome the condensation I used moisture muncher baggies. They are similar to what you get in some foods that spoil with condensation. I believe shops that sell the EWA bags will also sell you the moisture munchers. Here was a quick link that was easy to find.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/17351-REG/Ewa_Marine_CD5_CD5_Camera_D... |
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Derrick den Hollander, Photographer
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Melbourne | VIC | AUSTRALIA | Posted: 11:58 PM on 05.01.08 |
->> I would'nt recommend the EWA in the surf. It is a little too bouyant and "floppy" if the surf gets over a metre. Shooting as wide as you expect to, you'll find your fingers won't have the responsiveness with the camera buttons, so it's pretty much a point, shoot and hope - in the surf.
For condensation, I used to put camera and open bag/housing in the fridge for 10 minutes, then transport the whole rig unassembled to the surf/beach in an esky or cooler. The water at South Australia was quite cool, and obviously very sharky in certain locations. I never had condensation problems using this method, in particular on hot summer days when extremes between air and water temperature were at their greatest.
You could use Rain-x, or eat an apple before swimming out - then spit on the lens port and dunk the camera before each sequence.
For good surf, the only option is a rigid housing from my experience. |
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James Madelin, Photographer
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AKL | Auckland | New Zealand | Posted: 9:32 AM on 05.02.08 |
->> i've used one with success and love it (see my main image which was taken with it).
i wouldn't want to go much deeper than snorkel depth and they do take some getting used to; the shutter finger element in the bag is very thick which leaves you with no sensory feedback as to whether your finger's on the button or not.
framing is also difficult, but then again, they cost a fraction of a full housing.
be careful and you should be fine, although i use my 20d in mine and not my markiin.. just in case. |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 9:44 AM on 05.02.08 |
->> Hi James!
Nice shot on the member page, mind me asking how was it lit? Did you have strobes above water? How were they triggered? Since I recall radio signals not traveling well through the water.
Good point about just in case... |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:45 AM on 05.02.08 |
| ->> patrick, I have one of the ewa marine bags and all of what has been said above is pretty much good advice. they are very tricky to use any of the controls on the camera and the cooler or colder the water I have found the plastic gets more rigid. much like a garden hose...in the winter those things won't bend at all but warm them up and they're quite pliable. but then you run into the condensation problem if the water is cool. but if you're looking to make sweet photos in a pool or shallow water it is the economical way to go. |
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Tom Ervin, Photographer, Assistant
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Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 1:20 PM on 05.03.08 |
->> Can you go cheap (price and quality) to protect your $4500 camera?
Answer....Yes if you you like to take stupid chances.
Simple question. How do you know if your cheap housing is leaking. Answer...Your camera won't work.
I suggest going online and read about underwater photography. It might save you big bucks.
But if you do do the stupid thing I suggest get cheap insurance. Take some tampons a part Then put the exposed tampon in your clear cheap housing with the camera. If the housing leaks the tampon will puff up (that's if you notice) and you have a few seconds to get it out of the water. This doesn't guarantee that your camera isn't damaged. |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 5:01 PM on 05.03.08 |
->> "Radio Does not work Underwater"
What about the Canon eTTL System? How has that been? As I have a 580EX and Two 550Ex's.
What safe, yet affordable options are there for housings or bag for just the flash? Or is one better off putting them above water?
How have people installed these below water in the past? Can I just use a normal superclamp or magic arm or will the variable friction arm go to hell as a result of the water?
I realize a lot of these questions would have been answered for me at SSA... next time there is a summer/spring session that has a underwater class, I will be there! But until then...
My brother is on the swim and waterpolo teams and is a [un]willing candidate to participate in this, I am thinking it could be a really cool way to do team pictures for the teams this year - and let me recoup some of the costs by selling prints to the parents.
Can anyone suggest any good online resources for Underwater photography besides http://www.wetpixel.com? |
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Garrett Cortese, Photographer
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Winter Park | FL | USA | Posted: 5:59 PM on 05.03.08 |
->> The UAXP bag is great, as long as you know it is in good condition. I used one for years for shooting wakeboarding, but it got worn around the edges of the opening. I tried shooting an underwater portrait and ended up killing my 1D a few years ago. So definitely give the bag a test run before putting your camera in it.
I liked the UAXP, though, 'cause I could control all the functions of the camera (Canon DSLRs). I could even shift the camera around enough to change the white balance, ISO, shooting mode (M, tv, av, etc). The hardest button to maneuver is the back wheel, so changing aperture on the fly was tough. My solution was to change the camera to Av mode, set the aperture using the main dial by the shutter release, then switch back to M.
With the UAXP I could also throw a 550/580 flash on the camera and change all of the flash functions as well.
Now I shoot with a custom housing from SPL: http://www.splwaterhousings.com
It's a fantastic housing and I know it's going to hold up to anything. Shooting wakeboarding on a lake/river and getting splashed is one thing, but shooting in the waves/surf of the ocean is another. I'd think long and hard about the value of my camera before putting it in a $350 glorified lunch bag and taking it into the waves. |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 6:17 PM on 05.03.08 |
->> Hey Garrett,
Thanks for the info and the link, seeps like they are pretty sweet + $2250 for the Housing, Flash Option, and a wide port on the MkII seems to be a pretty good price in comparison. Will keep them in mind for down the line. |
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Charles Ludeke, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 9:55 PM on 05.03.08 |
->> Patrick, if you're going to consider the SPL Housing, you might as well just go with the AquaTech one. Opening up the housing unit in the SPL unit versus the AquaTech unit is 20 minutes versus five.
Also, the AquaTech stuff isn't that much difference in price versus SPL. Might as well go with AquaTech since it's the same price. And better quality. |
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James Madelin, Photographer
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AKL | Auckland | New Zealand | Posted: 6:21 AM on 05.04.08 |
->> to answer your questions about lighting patrick...
i think by your referring to the e-ttl system, you mean the canon remote firing system. it runs on infra red pulses and from my dive training, which was a while back, i seem to remember that reds are at the end of the spectrum that are most easily absorbed by water (which is why the deeper you go, the more colour you lose). so in theory it could work, but i doubt it would be reliable.
my understanding is that the only way to fire flashes underwater reliably is to either hard wire them (involving custom made housings and cords) or to use optical slaves (see joe mcnally's site for an explanation of doing this on a grand, GRAND scale in a NASA tank).
i've not used magic arms underwater but wouldn't hesitate to, i'm sure if you clean them with fresh water and dry them out they'd be fine, but call your local bogen/manfrotto agent to verify.
i just noticed your reference to surf. i would be very wary of using a hotshoe-mounted flash in surf; water is very dense and hotshoes are sacrificial (designed to break relatively easy under stress to save the more expensive camera and flash gun). a good hit from a wave, which is bound to happen, would probably severely stress it even in an ewa bag.
the ewa bags are well made though. i'm pretty sure that some of the very expensive housings have circuitry inside to detect moisture and there may be a chemical alternative.. you could probably do something like that in an ewa bag to give you a visual check that it wasn't leaking but i've never bothered. |
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Chris Russick, Photographer, Photo Editor
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 10:07 AM on 05.04.08 |
->> Just at thought on firing strobes under water....
You could use ikelite strobes with their underwater sensor. The strobe is triggered by the light from your on camera strobe. I don't know what the range would be but it might be worth contacting Ikelite.
Here's the link to the sensor's page.
http://ikelite.com/web_pages/mansensors.html |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 12:38 PM on 05.04.08 |
->> Thanks James for the Info. Yes I was referring to the eTTL with red light.
Yeah, The surf can be brutal. I would only use hotshoe mounted flash in the pool, otherwise, just available light - Though I have seen some interesting setups using a radio triggers above water to fire surfboard mounted strobes, land based strobes, or speedlights being held by assistants in external housings! |
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