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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Looking for others thoughts...
Jeffrey Boudreau, Photographer
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Westminster | MA | USA | Posted: 10:01 AM on 02.20.08 |
->> I am a freelancer shooting for a group of Weekly Newspapers and one monthly magazine (same company). I am on a budget and currently shoot with 30D, 20D, 70-200 2.8 IS, 24-70 2.8, and 18-55 kit lens when need a wide angle. I have been thinking a lot lately about upgrading to 1D Mark IIN, but for approx the same money could instead do 300 2.8. I shoot primarily sports, but also do features and spot news. My equipment was recently paid off and I am thinking upgrade.
1st question: What would you buy? The Mark IIN or 300 2.8?
2nd question: Do I hold off, I do pretty good right now with what I have, do you think I need to upgrade?
3rd question: I would love to move up and start shooting freelance (maybe for some of you) more, shooting college and possibly pro sports, do I have the equipment and/or talent to consider that level?
Thanks in advance for your input. |
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Jonathan Castner, Photographer, Assistant
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Longmont | CO | USA | Posted: 10:22 AM on 02.20.08 |
| ->> Considering the price that the IIn's are going for you will be buying a very cheap/worn 300mm. I think that your lenses are fine and your body needs the upgrade. So I vote for the IIn and sell the 20D. |
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David Ahntholz, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cleveland | OH | USA | Posted: 10:40 AM on 02.20.08 |
->> The MKIIn has a 1.3 crop instead of a 1.6 crop, meaning your long lenses will not be as long as on the 20D/30D. How about a 1.4x? Something to consider.
Is buying either piece of equipment going to get you more work? How many assignments do you have to shoot to pay it off?
It's always better to save the money, then use some of it to buy equipment that will help you get more work. Don't go into debt to buy more equipment unless you absolutely need it. |
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Wes Hope, Photographer
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Maryville | TN | USA | Posted: 10:44 AM on 02.20.08 |
->> 1: Which do you NEED?
2: If you're doing "pretty good" now with what you have, then why do you feel the need to upgrade? Save your money (especially since you said you just paid off your gear).
3: Equipment will not move you to whatever level you are trying to achieve. It can only help you get there. Focus on the talent side of things.
If you are finding that you need a little more reach at outdoor event, think about a 300/4 (the 1 stop loss isn't so great for night games, but you should be fine for daytime stuff). It's easily a third the price. |
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Mikhail Voskresensky, Photographer
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Moscow | Russia | Russia | Posted: 12:44 PM on 02.20.08 |
->> Hey Jeffrey,
What kind of sports you shooting? 300/2.8 is great and if the price of this glass acceptable for you, my choise is a lens. 300/4 has slow AF for indoor sports and for night games. On the another hand in US you can buy used 1DMk2 very cheaply... What kind of sports? |
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Jeffrey Boudreau, Photographer
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Westminster | MA | USA | Posted: 1:17 PM on 02.20.08 |
| ->> I am shooting High School Sports in the Northeast US. Anything goes, Football, Basketball, Baseball, Softball, Hockey, Indoor Track, Outdoor Track, Tennis, etc. I also do some feature work and Spot news. |
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Eric Francis, Photographer
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Omaha | NE | United States | Posted: 1:49 PM on 02.20.08 |
->> Jefferey,
Given what you're doing...... glass glass glass glass |
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Mikhail Voskresensky, Photographer
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Moscow | Russia | Russia | Posted: 2:00 PM on 02.20.08 |
| ->> For field sports 300/2.8 is fine. I think that good fast glass will more important them body. Good luck! |
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Ric Tapia, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 2:10 PM on 02.20.08 |
| ->> The 300mm 2.8 would be a better investment. |
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Sam Santilli, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 4:37 PM on 02.20.08 |
| ->> Ditto on Eric's post |
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Gil Batzri, Photographer, Assistant
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Oakland | CA | USA | Posted: 4:48 PM on 02.20.08 |
->> I would go with a 1 series body then get the long glass next. maybe grab a 1.4 TC.
I would rather have my 1D and a 70-200/1.4 then my 300 and a 20D. I find the jump in the body makes a huge difference in getting the shots for sports particularly. The AF is MUCH improved and the actual speeed of the body is much better as well.
Mind you I haven't really used a consumer body for 4+ years, but every time I used one when I was working with the portrait studio I was stunned at the difference in handling.
I don't know as much about the 20/30D as far as function, my recollection is the LCD is bigger on the 30D is the largest difference, what is the price difference if you sell the 30D, would that get you into the ballpark on the long glass+a mk2 or mk2n? |
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Steven Mullensky, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Port Townsend | WA. | USA | Posted: 4:50 PM on 02.20.08 |
| ->> You know what? I used to think that I needed a 300 2.8 mounted on my MkIIn to cover the HS sports that I shoot but I've concluded that a 70-200 2.8 works just fine for basketball, volleyball, softball, baseball, soccer, tennis, etc., and if I need longer reach I put a 1.4 on it. I wouldn't mind having one of those bad ass lenses some day, though. |
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Karl Anderson, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Lubbock | TX | USA | Posted: 4:54 PM on 02.20.08 |
| ->> Keep in mind that the 18-55 will not work on a mk II and a 24 isn't that wide on a 1.3 camera. To answer you question you should probably get the glass. |
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Charles Ludeke, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 5:43 PM on 02.20.08 |
| ->> Buy the 300 2.8 and get a used 1D on here, since they're usually under $1000. |
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 5:44 PM on 02.20.08 |
->> Jeffrey, you say you mostly shoot sports, but what type and where? The speed of the action and the location and usual lighting you encounter can make a body upgrade really important.
I shoot in low light conditions a lot, and my subjects are about as random as you can find - rodeo livestock can be all over the place and rodeo arenas are notorious for low light.
My 1D Mk1 runs circles around a 20D or 30D in that situation. I've had shoots where I threw away almost half the images because the 20D couldn't track due to low light, where the 1D was able to.
I love the 20D in the right situations, but there's no way it'll keep up with a pro body. The same is true of the 30D. The 40D... I don't know. There's enough age difference that it might be approaching the 1D Mk I for light sensitivity and focus speed, but it's still lacking as far as weather sealing. Upgrade to a Mk IIn and it should be ahead of the 40D and its next successor.
As far as using the 1.4x TC, I use one with my 70-200L telephotos when I need that extra little bit of reach. I find it a nice solution; If I had to shoot at longer distances than I do I'd get a 300 f2.8, but usually I can get closer to the action and not bother with the TC. They reduce your light so in low-light situations the 300 f2.8 is a must. Again, you have to decide based on where and what you're shooting. |
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Rodrigo Pena, Photographer
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Palm Desert | CA | USA | Posted: 6:12 PM on 02.20.08 |
->> Jeffrey, after looking at your images, you've got the timing down pretty well for having the 20/30D cameras. What I did notice was that your photos are a tad loose. Because of what I saw on your member page, I would recommend the 300mm f/2.8. Later, you'll be able to buy a 1.4x teleconverter and really pull in the images. Later on, after your 300 is paid for, get the Mark III or Mark IV. By that time, the focusing issues should be resolved. I love the 300mm f/2.8 and so will you.
Now, having said that, I have tried to shoot night football with my 20D & 30D cameras and I get so frustrated that I immediately jump back to my Mark IIN. If you don't have those troubles, the 300mm lens will be right for you. |
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Margaret Bowles, Photographer
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Houston | TX | | Posted: 6:23 PM on 02.20.08 |
| ->> I haven't used a 30D, but I know that the 20D is a poor substitute for a Mark IIN. The 20D has a lot of flaws when compared to a Mark IIN--it's slow and unreliable. If you get the Mark IIN, you can still use the 18-55 on your 20D for the wide angle where fps are not as important. For most sports, especially at the high school level where you can get close to the action, your 70-200 will work fine. You might miss the outfield shots for baseball and softball,and the opposite sideline shots in soccer, but a 300 doesn't have the reach for those shots anyway. In basketball, I use the 70-200 almost exclusively, and I shoot college a lot. I won't get into all the sports or the differences with pro level sports. For where you are now, I would think that the faster camera would give you the bigger boost. As everyone else said, you can always add a 1.4X. I haven't had that much luck with that combo, but plenty of people use it successfully. |
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Charlie Quigg, Photographer
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Amherst | MA | USA | Posted: 6:59 PM on 02.20.08 |
->> Jeffrey --
This is a tough one. While I haven't shot with a 30d, I have used both the MkII and the 20d -- based on that experience, I think you'd love the jump up. The difference b/w the 20d and MkII is really night and day, so I imagine it would be similar with the 30d.
Having said that, I think you would probably also love the extra reach a 300 would give you. That was the case for me when I first got one.
In this situation, I would probably go for the glass (if you can actually find a 300 for what you'd pay for a MkII). It's definitely a better investment (very little loss over time, particularly on high end lenses) and if you find that your shooting isn't really helped by the longer lens, you could always sell it at a later time and pick up a MkII (which will almost surely lose value quicker than the 300 will). |
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Will Powers, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 11:45 AM on 02.21.08 |
->> I'd go with glass, and a 1.4 converter asap. It use to be a body is just a body and to a certain degree, I still believe that. A higher frame count gives you more opportunities to miss the shot. The best shot at eight frames a second can still be between frames.
If you go with the glass, it will give you a different perspective, it won't change your lenses' inability to crop. You can crop in photoshop, which has nothing to do with whether you should get glass or a body.
Someone asked if it would get you more work. If anything will get you more work, it would be the lens. When I was just starting out I applied to work with the AP. The chief photographer asked what glass I had, not what body (Canon had just come out with the EOS film system and I bought into it).The AP was all Nikon at the time. I didn't have a 300 2.8 at the time and the chief said he couldn't use me for sports. I went out and bought a 300 asap (it was the third in the country for EOS), I started getting sports work quickly after that.
Go with the glass. |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 12:26 PM on 02.21.08 |
->> To me this debate is sort of a "6 of one, half dozen of another" situation.
Yes, getting "long glass" is a good idea if you want to freelance.
A MIIn is a huge upgrade from consumer cameras like a 20/30D.
And everyone seems to feel the need to shoot major college and pro sports.
With that all said don't "put the horse before the cart" ... to use another well-worn cliche.
If you have your fancy-dancy (used) 300 2.8 first, you'll be driving it with a 20/30D. Not the best combo to get the most out of a 300 2.8, especially for sports. (Yes I know there are lots of you out there that do but that's not my point.)
Upgrade to a good camera first and rent/borrow/cps loan for long glass when you need it.
The performance of the MIIn --- AF, image quality, high ISO, etc. --- will be far superior than what you're shooting now. Build on that and then save your pennies for a 300.
Now buying used ... that's a whole different issue ... |
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Eric Francis, Photographer
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Omaha | NE | United States | Posted: 12:40 PM on 02.21.08 |
->> "And everyone seems to feel the need to shoot major college and pro sports."
exactly..... my first AP staffer said it best........ "if you can't make pictures in your own back yard, how can you expect to do it at the [pick a big event]."
It is so true. I actually prefer the HS sidelines to a college or pro event any day. |
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Justin Edmonds, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 1:20 PM on 02.21.08 |
->> This isn't even an issue for me. Sure everyone wants long glass, including me, but the difference in a 20D/30D to a 1D series is like comparing a Honda Accord to an Mercedes S-class. I have both a 30D and MkII and I can just "feel" the difference in build quality and speed.
Buy a MkIIn and rent the long glass when you need to. If you get the body I seriously doubt you will second guess yourself.
...but hey what do I know, I'm just a student |
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Jeffrey Boudreau, Photographer
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Westminster | MA | USA | Posted: 3:51 PM on 02.21.08 |
->> Wow, everybody is been just great. But the last few posts seem to make the most sense. I am a member of CPS and could get the glass if I need it. Now it is a matter to convince the wife to let me go out and get the Mark IIN, that is the tough part.
As for shooting major college and pro sports, I am not dreaming big right now, I think my point was to get more work and improve my profile. Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that on a HS sideline, I can roam to almost anywhere(within reason) and not have to pick a spot and stay there. I just want to move up in the photography world and add to my profile. But I will say, as Wes said in an earlier post, "Focus on the talent side of things...". That is where I need to put most of my eggs while preparing to make the jump to the Mark IIN.
Thank you everybody for your input. This was my first post and the advice was invaluable. Definitely gave me some points to go to the wife with to convince her to let me buy the Mark IIN. |
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