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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Applebees Using Sports Images without permission
Jayne Oncea, Photographer
Redmond | OR | USA | Posted: 10:12 PM on 01.19.08
->> Last year I gave a display of varsity football photos to the local high school for a display to help promote and raise money for the team and booster club.. and a show of good faith for them allowing me to photograph and sell images.
Recently, I go to dinner at the new Applebees Resturant in town and...there on the wall a BIG display of .. guess what.. the local high school football team n photos.
ALL of my photos...All the photos I gave to the school somehow made their way to the resturant.

I approached the manager and explained the situation and all I asked for was a small, business card size display saying.."PHOTOS COURTESY OF ----"

He said he would look into it for me.

I get a call from the manager saying he talked to the district manager in Portland and he said NO. I said, what do you mean NO. He says, yea, the high school gave them to us, so NO credit for you.

I said, the photos weren't the high school's to give away to you without permission. He says, you'll have to check with the high school. Sorry.

I'm ready to go into the resturant and just take the images off the wall.. or, better yet, sit at a table right near them, and tape my own card on the frame. I bet nobody would even notice.

Do I have a leg to stand on or am I SOL??
Thanks...
Jayne
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Ed J. Szalajeski, Photographer
Portland | ME | USA | Posted: 10:18 PM on 01.19.08
->> Just a question, did you give Prints, or digital files?

EJS
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Mike Brice, Photographer
Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 10:18 PM on 01.19.08
->> I think if you gave them to the high school boosters without any restrictions you risk the goodwill that you originally hoped to gain by giving them the images in the first place.

I think this is a lesson learned that you need to have a contract or at the very least a letter of agreement when you provide images in this manner.
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Paul Alesse, Photographer
Centereach | NY | USA | Posted: 10:43 PM on 01.19.08
->> Jayne... can you at least get a free app out of the deal?

Seriously though, the fault belongs with the school and that's who you need to discuss the situation with. Maybe a compromise can be reached. But, the problem is that this is a "second generation give" in that the givee became a giver and without anything in writing, you're gonna be fresh out of luck and will have to rely on the good faith of everyone involved.

Yes... lesson learned. Unfortunately, everything down to the last detail has to be in writing these days.
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Bob Ford, Photographer
Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 10:57 PM on 01.19.08
->> I'm confused by a couple of things. First of all, what do you mean by "a display of varsity football photos", and how did you expect the school to "raise money for the team" with the display?

I don't see how you can feel put out by seeing the photos at Applebees, but I might be missing your point. You gave it to the school to "help promote" the team. It seems that's exactly what they are doing by displaying the photos at Applebees.
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Allen Hubbard, Photographer
Spokane | WA | USA | Posted: 11:12 PM on 01.19.08
->> Where the original prints turned over to the resturaunt or were they copied?
I don't know that it would make a difference since you stated that you gave them to help promote and raise money for the team. It seems as though you were then giving permission to do as they wish. (Even selling them to make money????)
But if they used them both in the school AND at the resturaunt then maybe you would have a leg to stand on for them duplicating them.
I went through a copyright situation with a major University here but it was different circumstances. They knew that they only had rights to use them "In House" and they sold them to book publishers.
I have the name and number of the people in Applebee's regional office in Portland if you want it to contact them direct.
E-mail me for the info.
Allen
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Denny Medley, Photographer, Photo Editor
Kansas City | MO | USA | Posted: 11:42 PM on 01.19.08
->> Jayne,
I have a similar situation here in the town I live in. I always give the head coach of a local HS a free 8x10 of the team when I shoot the T&I for them. These are usually displayed in the coaches offices.
I was actually contacted by the AD from the school when a new Applebees was to be built here, and they asked me if they could give Applebees permission to display some of my photos in their restaurant. I agreed, because all of the prints that I donate to the school have my logo displayed on them, and sure enough in the restaurant you can clearly see my logo on the photos they used. I've had several customers mention they saw one of my photos in the display at Applebees, so it's worked out.
Just make sure if you do allow this in the future, that (1) any stipulations for the prints given to the school are clearly stated up front; and (2) make sure your logo or copyright info is clearly displayed on the prints.

Just my .02 worth...
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Chad Ryan, Photographer, Assistant
Fort Wayne | IN | USA | Posted: 2:56 AM on 01.20.08
->> I understand you feel slighted and frustrated, but I have to shake my head every time I hear of one of these stories. If you gave away photos, allowing another organization to make money from them, I don't see how you can be upset about seeing those photos given away to yet another group.

Sure, it would be nice to think the school would have credited you, given your act of goodwill. But if it were truly an act of goodwill and not a backwards way of promoting your business or keeping the access the school has given then it shouldn't bother you in the least because you gave the photos away for zero considerations or terms for further use.

My point here is since you've been giving your work away for free to the school you really don't have a leg on which to stand. Because you've opened the door to free photography, you have killed your opportunity to ask for considerations such as credit or payment. About the time you try that now they will find another photographer or a parent with a camera who doesn't care about all of that and is just as willing to give their work away too.

I believe in helping out in some circumstances, but I've not yet heard of a good outcome from any of these "I gave my photos away to show appreciation" stories. Sure, someone on SS will now relay a story about how their rebate program brings a great yield. But honestly, is it really a good way to go?
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 10:09 AM on 01.20.08
->> what chad said....and I think if you do a search (I'm too lazy to do it) there was a thread a couple of years ago about the same exact thing with the same exact chain. appleby's is a huge corporation and they could give a rat's a&& about a local photographer crying about photos that were given to yet a third party. I divert a little from chad's advice in one way. if you look at the space (in dennys) as a promotional situation that could be benefivial. now as denny said I shot a grand opening at an appleby's a couple of years ago (we don't usually shoot that kind of thing but it was a story on growth) and as I remember they had photos from a local studio guy who shot the high school team in a little local shrine thing...but his name was plastered on every photo prominently. it was basically a huge FREE ad space for him. Jayne I hope you learned something from this....you kinda get what you pay for in these situations, you gave away the photos for free (or no compensation in trade) and you go exactly the same thing back...nothing. just take this as a lesson learned.I would seriously advise NOT to go to the restuarant and try and remove the photos claiming they are your property. I would bet you would have a free ride in your local police car for your effort. sometimes you gotta learn things the hard way.
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Dave Einsel, Photographer, Photo Editor
Houston/Friendswood | TX | United States | Posted: 10:54 AM on 01.20.08
->> It's pretty simple. As copyright owner of the photographs, you can demand that they be removed unless they pay a licensing fee or agree to your terms. You have tried to be nice but it may be time for you to put them on notice.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 11:26 AM on 01.20.08
->> Jayne,

Chalk it up to a lesson learned. To push the issue now that the community has seen them in the restaurant is a bad idea in my book. The last thing that you want is for everyone at that school to think of you as that lady that made Applebees take our pictures off the wall.

Save the goodwill and all the hard work that you have done to this point. Everyone who knows that you took the photos will think that you're cool for having then on display and anyone who doesn't know that it was you also won't think you're a 'tool' for giving them away. Cut you losses and find a way to turn this into a win for you regardless of how its looked at. Man I've been around politicians tooooo long :)

All kidding aside you will gain nothing by having them removed. Make a PS stamp and brand the photos in the future.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 11:49 AM on 01.20.08
->> I have to respectfully disagree with dave on this. in principal yes. but I googled Jaynes town and it's a 21,000 population community. I think it at this point it would be a public relations disaster. let it go and as eric mentioned learn from it. I'll shut up now.
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Jason Frizzelle, Photographer
Greenville | NC | USA | Posted: 12:29 PM on 01.20.08
->> I would go sit in the seat from open to close and everytime someone walked by Id stop em and say Hey I shot these pictures.
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Mike Ullery, Photographer
Troy | OH | USA | Posted: 12:30 PM on 01.20.08
->> Jayne,
You may legally have the right to ask that the images be removed. But like Chuck said, it could lead to a public relations disater.

Aren't the images doing exactly what you intended? They are generating publicity and interest in the school and the team. If you get right down to it, where are the photos getting the most "bang for the buck?" They could be hung in the locker room or in the lobby where they will be seen by the same people day in and day out. Or, they can be hung in the local Applebees, who obviously feel the need to support the school, where they are seen by many people and different people all the time. I think that the school must feel pretty proud of the images to give them your shots to be hung on public display at a popular restaurant.

Mike
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 1:00 PM on 01.20.08
->> Allen before mentioned that he has contact info for corporate, maybe email them and see if they would send word down to let you put up a card as a goodwill gesture, not as a 'YOU MUST COMPLY!" sort of thing, if they say no, sorry, then so be it. But you only want good PR - not bad.
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Mark Peters, Photographer
Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 2:11 PM on 01.20.08
->> Is simply displaying an image on the wall of a restaraunt really "commercial use"? Doesn't seem they're using it for advertising, etc... If not, then if you gave the school prints and they transferred the print to someone else, where is the copyright violation? I can see the issue if they made copies, etc., but if they simply transferred title to the piece of paper where's the issue? Are we saying that a commercial business cannot purchase and display a print from the same gallery as Joe Q. Public? (Asking because I am interested in knowing, not because I believe I have an understanding of the nuances of intellectual property law.)
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Dave Einsel, Photographer, Photo Editor
Houston/Friendswood | TX | United States | Posted: 2:41 PM on 01.20.08
->> IHOP is in the process of acquiring Applebee's for $2.1 Billion. Our colleague Jayne is just trying to make a living. If you write off the experience to lessons learned, at what point do you make a stand?
Applebee's has built their brand on supporting local school athletics. I suspect we have all seen the commercial with the retired coach and the one with the losing football team arriving at closing. Both are very sappy and effective.
So here is a situation where they continue to build their brand on Jayne's hard work.
Feeling proud or honored just to have her work displayed in a popular local restaurant without permission or credit is no different than being thrilled to just have your picture appear in SI even though you weren't credited or compensated.
Jayne gave prints to the school for their use. Even if they had purchased the photographs, they would not have the authority to give them to a business or anyone else without her permission. The work is her intellectual property.
What if one of the kids or their parents objected to having their likeness displayed next to the salad bar? Maybe they hate that Applebee's put their favorite local diner out of business. Jayne could be held libel because they are her photographs. Not a situation likely to stick but the irritation caused would be real.
I am not suggesting Jayne must go in with guns blazing and make threats with lawyers but I think she cannot just, "Chalk it up to experience." What if she had a usage agreement with the school and someone gave them to Applebee's anyway. Would she just write it off as a mistake to avoid a "PR disaster"? I would hope not, for all our sakes.
That said, I will offer another possible solution. Approach the owner or the manager of the Applebee's and offer to supply them with replacement prints that you would update on an agreed schedule. These replacement prints would contain your name or logo. That could potentially be good marketing and avoid the ill will feared by others.
Good luck whatever you decide.
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Preston Mack, Photographer
Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 2:48 PM on 01.20.08
->> The Copyright Act grants five rights to a copyright owner:

the right to reproduce the copyrighted work;
the right to prepare derivative works based upon the work;
the right to distribute copies of the work to the public;
the right to perform the copyrighted work publicly; and
the right to display the copyrighted work publicly.

I believe if she has registered the photos in question, a lawyer can fire off a “Cease and Desist Letter”. I am sure the parent company would not want to fight a copyright issue over photos hanging in one store.
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Robert Seale, Photographer
Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 3:18 PM on 01.20.08
->> The photos were copyrighted the second she took the picture. Registration helps of course, but the lawyer can still fire off a cease and desist letter anyway.

I might offer that ill will in the community works both ways. You are all looking at this as if this is bad PR for her. How about the bad PR for a large restaurant chain seen taking advantage of a local small business owner? Who do you think the community is going to get behind?

If Applebee's wants to decorate their restaurants with local flavor, they can pay for those decorations and artwork just like any other item. This is a huge company. They know that every photo taken anywhere belongs to someone and must be cleared in order to be displayed in a commercial situation. I would expect the local manager to be naive about IP issues, but the regional manager flat screwed up by not dealing with this. If you don't get satisfaction from them (I like Dave's suggestion about a rotating display...)...send a letter to their national corporate office.

The PR disaster is theirs....not yours.
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Mark Peters, Photographer
Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 3:30 PM on 01.20.08
->> So to clarify, the violation here would be under #5 - public display - is that correct?
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 4:23 PM on 01.20.08
->> There is some information lacking. Jayne gave the coach and boosters the photo for the purpose of "display to help promote and raise money for the team and booster club.. and a show of good faith for them allowing me to photograph and sell images."

The question I think needs to be answered by her first is did she supply the school with a single image and that image was copied and then displayed at Applebee? Was there a single print/display made for the coach/boosters and was it then given to Applebee's?

Was a print or digital file handed over? Was a letter of agreement or licensing statement supplied in a letter or in the IPTC of the file. What rights were conveyed at the time the image/print was delivered to the school officials?
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
Tucson | Az | USA | Posted: 6:32 PM on 01.20.08
->> As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I would tend to believe Jayne gave the images to the school to help its cause, not to Applebee's to help theirs.

I like Robert's overtone of the cease and desist order. Applebee's suggesting Jayne go back to the school is purely a brush off tactic, although I would inquire at the school why they thought they could provide her images to the restaurant.

They believe their big company and size will be enough to intimidate. Jayne, surprise them.
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Tony Mastres, Photographer
Santa Barbara | Ca | USA | Posted: 8:51 PM on 01.20.08
->> Hmmm. I think the crux of this case may hinge on whether or not the restaurant is displaying the actual prints that Jayne gave to the school. If they reproduced the images by enlarging them or making other copies, then you may have a violation as Preston noted as #1 in his post "the right to reproduce the copyrighted work"

If they didn't reproduce them but are using the prints she gave them then aren't the prints simply property at that point? If she had given them a painting instead and the school susequently gave the painting to the restaurant to display would there be the same fuss? Not saying I agree with the boneheads at Applebees, I think there should be no question that she deserves credit lines, I'm just unsure theres much of a case to compel anything.

The bottom line would most likely be (as it almost always is) is Jayne being financially harmed by the display or is it causing her any loss of income.

Just my opinion
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Jayne Oncea, Photographer
Redmond | OR | USA | Posted: 10:17 PM on 01.20.08
->> I was new in town and the local school allowed me to photograph some of the high school sports...to get known in the community a little. I was trying to get the school contract for T&I and asked if they would like a display of images for the school. It was 8x10 prints mounted on 2 peices of foamboard... so I guess Applebees contacted the school..not sure who and said...Do you have any photos for the local sports display sections.. so, I guess that is how my pix were sent there. Yea, they have my old logo on them and in a dark area of the place.
not that big of a deal, but kinda irked at the big honcho from the chain that pretty much said..
Oh well..too bad.
the school didn't make any $$ off the photos.. they allowed me to shoot and post pix online to try and sell (which I didn't sell much of anyway)
Guess I won't be so generous next time!
tks for all the reply info.
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Jayne Oncea, Photographer
Redmond | OR | USA | Posted: 10:22 PM on 01.20.08
->> ................ I might think it over and approach the manager and tell him IF he gives me a space for a biz card to be posted or some type of credit..I'll give them NEW photos from the school sports to display 2 to 3 times a year. if anybody has good contact info for the corporate office..that would be great.
You'd figure after all these years in the business, I would know better! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
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Allen Hubbard, Photographer
Spokane | WA | USA | Posted: 10:28 PM on 01.20.08
->> if anybody has good contact info for the corporate office..that would be great.


In my previous post I told you that I have the contact name an, I won't post it here.d number for those at corp. who deal with this issue. E -mail me for that.
Allen
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Rich Obrey, Photographer
Gorham | ME | USA | Posted: 1:18 AM on 01.21.08
->> In a related story:

The Applebee's near me has on display a photo I took of a local singer during one of his performances (originally printed in a local weekly newspaper).

The singer purchased an 8x10 copy from me, which I marked on the back "Copyright, etc" and "Do Not Copy, etc" because I had a suspicion it might end up on his web site.

Instead, there's a 16x20 poster hanging on the Applebee's wall in the "Local Heroes" display.

No photo credit, of course.

The irony (besides the "Local Hero" part): the singer advertises on his web site his availability to give copyright advice to other musicians...
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Derrick den Hollander, Photographer
Melbourne | VIC | AUSTRALIA | Posted: 1:43 AM on 01.21.08
->> A few years back I had a not for profit organisation ask to use an image to promote a national event they were hosting. I drew up a contract, charged them hardly anything, but stipulated in the contract, which the organisation signed, stating that all use of the image, in any format, MUST be credited to me. Failure to provide credit, and the person signing the agreement is liable to a fee of $250 for each and every breach.
The guy signing the contract baulked, but I told him as long as I am credited, it's no biggie.

So a couple months later, I see a few places that have used the image - no credit. I kindly and respectfully contact each organisation who has used it - asking for image credit. I'm told basically to shove off, someone else gave them the image to use. Some even wrote back saying I should be pleased for the exposure - they could'nt see that without credit, exposure was meaningless.

So I went back to the guy who signed the contract - I asked him to ask those he gave the image to use, to credit me. He wrote back saying basically, look - I don't have the time to chase up everyone I've given that image to.

So I sent him an invoice for over $1000. The image was either quickly credited as per our agreement, or removed from the sites who used it.

I learnt a valuable lesson there and then. Try and help people out, and they'll burn you, intentionally or not. Better to have a contract so you retain control over your images.
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Allen Hubbard, Photographer
Spokane | WA | USA | Posted: 1:51 AM on 01.21.08
->> ->> In a related story:

1. It appears this is standard procedure with the Applebees Franchise. Maybe something does need to be done or they will continue to do it in every store they have!

2. Rich, That's pretty ironic about the musician giving copyright advice after doing that. Have you contacted him?
And obviously whoever made the 16x20 should know the law. That's not a size the average person can print at home!
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Jeff Brown, Photographer
Greenfield | MA | | Posted: 8:56 AM on 01.21.08
->> Happened to me also. When Applebees opened a few years ago in my town. I have images from the school and local police dept. copied by them. I had done a set of cop cards and they simply blew them up and framed the enlargments. On a side note when "The 99" cam to twon last year they had a rep contact me and they PAID for images of local high school teams for their walls.

GO 99 !!
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Jason Frizzelle, Photographer
Greenville | NC | USA | Posted: 10:30 AM on 01.21.08
->> So this does seem to be a problem with Applebees all over the place. Have they ever been sued for this? It seems to me someone would have been able to make quite a case at some point. I think about all of the applebees ive been in that had local photos and im sure they didnt have the copyrights to all of them. I think given this thread i might be paying my local applebees a visit.
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Bill Miller, Photographer
Thousand Palms | CA | USA | Posted: 10:33 AM on 01.21.08
->> In the small town the answer is pretty simple. Jayne issue a press release to the local paper. "Local Photographer Jayne Onces's photos of xxx team on display at Applebee's". Turn the lemons into lemonade.
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Paul Cacciapaglia, Photographer, Assistant
Houston (Friendswood) | TX | USA | Posted: 7:06 AM on 01.22.08
->> I had something similar just happen to me. I was looking at a local monthly sports magazine and there was one of my basketball photos. I contacted the magazine and let them know they had used one of my photos without my permission. Long story short, come to find out the local newspaper I freelance for had given this publication my photo to run in their story. I did sell the photo to the paper, therefore, I guess the paper bought the rights to this image and could do with it what they wanted. It still made me pretty angry that the paper would be so sneaky. I did not receive photo credit or reimbursement from the magazine for use of my photo, just the original payment from the paper. Am I due reimbursement from the magazine or does the paper have the right to do what they will with the image they purchased from me?
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Jeff Brown, Photographer
Greenfield | MA | | Posted: 7:56 AM on 01.22.08
->> That is a good question Paul. A few years ago our locsl paper took an image (basicaly like copy work) of an uncut sheet of the above mentioned "cop cards" and for the photo credit they used ....."paper's name file photo" or "paper's name photo". When I called to point out their mistake they said oh well they do not need to give credit and they were very rude. However a few hours later after complaining that I should have gotten some credit for the original work I received a phone call from the orignal person I spoke to. Come to find out theu were in the wrong and I guess from an inside source I have he got laid into pretty good. Still I received no $$$ or credit.

This type of thing is kind of their M.O. anyways.
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Mike Brice, Photographer
Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 8:04 AM on 01.22.08
->> Bill,

That is a great idea. I wish I had thought of it.
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 8:14 AM on 01.22.08
->> Paul,

When you sold the paper the image, was their a contract? Was it deemed work for hire? Did you make it clear that this was NOT all rights, etc? If you were freelancing on assignment for the paper they could argue it was WFH [like AP]- but if you took the pic, 'walked in' and sold them the shot, unless you signed/sold rights to it, and were not in a WFH situation - you [in theory i believe]should receive payment.

Now granted, trying to get any extra payment will be like getting blood from a stone, you can however, made sure you don't get fooled again, with a contract that says they may not redistribute the image to other publications and/or your name must run with the image.

good luck
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Aaron Rhoads, Photographer
McComb | MS | USA | Posted: 10:57 AM on 01.22.08
->> You could go in there, asked to be seated next to your photo... order some bbq ribs or some other messy food

and lets just say

have an accident.
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Kevin M. Cox, Photographer, Assistant
Galveston / Houston | TX | US | Posted: 1:33 PM on 01.22.08
->> Paul wrote: "I did sell the photo to the paper, therefore, I guess the paper bought the rights to this image and could do with it what they wanted."

Guys, guys, guys. Remember, we do not "sell" images to publications, we "license" them. If you are not on staff (salary, insurance, 401K, etc.) and have not signed a "work-for-hire" contract then YOU own the photos and YOU control who can do what with them.
http://www.editorialphoto.com/resources/faq.asp#anchor14

Patrick wrote: "If you were freelancing on assignment for the paper they could argue it was WFH [like AP]"

They could only argue this if you have signed a contract specifying WFH. The simple act of freelancing does not imply WFH.
http://www.editorialphoto.com/resources/faq.asp#anchor11

Here are some links that are good reminders for those who have already read them and are great information for those who haven't:
http://www.editorialphoto.com/resources/
http://www.editorialphoto.com/copyright/
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/340
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1155
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/229
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/311
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/883
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/677
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/967
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/508
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/807
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Alan Look, Photographer
Bloomington | IL | United States | Posted: 2:01 PM on 01.22.08
->> Sounds like a conspiracy to get us to all have lunch at our local Appleby's to check for violations!

commercial use? probably is. Hang a few of current NCAA athletes in there and see how long it takes before the cease and desist letters start to arrive...
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 2:29 PM on 01.22.08
->> Get an attorney or drop it. End of story.

Your copyright is only as good as your willingness to enforce it. If you aren't going to get an attorney, stop crying about it.

No good deed goes unpunished.
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Vincent Johnson, Photographer
Chicago | IL | USA | Posted: 3:01 PM on 01.22.08
->> I'm with Darren.

We all yell like a bunch of hens with a fox in the hen house, but we lay down and take it.

Walk in, drop the "Copyright violation" "I will take legal action" line and see how long it takes for the head office to call back and offer you that business card size ad.

If that doesn't work. Just sue them in small claims court. represent yourself pro-say. Even if you lose, if enough of us do stuff like that, the time and money they will spend on lawyers will help them think twice about pulling a stunt like this again. It will also have the stores manager sweating bullets for a while and he will be apt to contact photographers instead of Kinkos.

Most people outside the business don't have a clue about copyright law. We need to educate them every chance we get. It's never going to end, so we have to stay on top of it all the time.
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Jeff Barrie, Photographer
Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 4:52 PM on 01.22.08
->> The local school I shoot was contacted by an O'Charleys about doing the same thing, hanging sports shots in the restuarant. The football coach called me and asked if I would sell him three 8x 10's for the display. I did and now I wish I would have thought of adding the contact info but, everyone who goes to those football games already knows me. I just don't see Joe Blow walking in for lunch and asking if he can buy a print of that.
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Kevin M. Cox, Photographer, Assistant
Galveston / Houston | TX | US | Posted: 5:44 PM on 01.22.08
->> Jeff, Joe Blow may not walk in for lunch and want a copy of the print on the wall, but he may think, "that's a great shot, I wonder if I could hire that guy to take a photo of eight-year-old Joe Jr. playing soccer at his game this Saturday?
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Mike Ullery, Photographer, Photo Editor
Piqua | OH | USA | Posted: 5:58 PM on 01.22.08
->> When you are doing your Photoshop work on the image, just put your name or logo in the corner of the photo, (small enough to be discreet but large enough to be read...and far enough away from the paper's edge so that some enterprising person doesn't cover it with a matte while framing). How long has that been done in the portrait business? It's your photograph, if you want your name/company name on the print, no one can stop you.
(Excluding newspapers and such, of course)
Mike
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 8:01 PM on 01.22.08
->> "if you want your name/company name on the print, no one can stop you.(Excluding newspapers and such, of course)"

However, if a newspaper removes your mark, they too are violating copyright. I did this myself when I would work on our society pages. Now though, I view that as a total rip off.

Photographers are collectors of information as are newspapers. And the opinion I've reached since then is that anyone who collects information should be allowed proper credit and compensation. And many newspapers have abandoned their mission by becoming news beggars rather than news collectors.

I don't feel news media should get a free ride abusing the concept of fair use. Often when something is especially newsworthy, they'll wave that banner and violate copyright of a portrait studio. If it's newsworthy, isn't it payment worthy?
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Jeff Barrie, Photographer
Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 8:20 PM on 01.22.08
->> Kevin I can think of nothing closer to a real life nightmare than shooting 8 year olds playing soccer LOL.
Did it for a league once, actually it was ages 5-10. and I still wake up in a cold sweat on occasion from it. My Dr says the meds will help eventually but, I do see your point and next year a credit will be visable.
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Brian Light, Photographer
Pennsville | NJ | USA | Posted: 8:35 PM on 01.22.08
->> Actually when a new Applebees is being constructed they have a company who comes in and outfits the "Art" in the building. They will contact local High Schools and any colleges in the area to get a display. They generally get what ever the school will send them. A local school contacted me to see about getting photos and I told them to have the person contact me to purchase them. Applebees never did contact me. To me, they don't want to purchase what they hang on their wall.
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 8:52 PM on 01.22.08
->> You're right Brian. That's what they did here in my community. I wasn't shooting high school action at the time so they only got what the university gave them. I do wish now that I had the opportunity to get my high school stuff on their walls. Every year a fresh crop of relatively awesome photos go under utilized since most parents just buy the 4x6 reprints.
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Brian Light, Photographer
Pennsville | NJ | USA | Posted: 9:26 AM on 01.23.08
->> I wanted to clear up my comment... when I said Applebees didn't want to purchase, that was a bit misleading... my guess is that Applebees is paying a company to outfit the photos in their building... that company doesn't seem to want to pay for local high school photos which they display. In looking at the photos in many Applebees (you know we all do this) it would appear that they are scanning and duplicating some of the photos.

As my local Applebee's is only a couple years old, I haven't noticed a changing in the photos in the store since it opened. This could very well be an opportunity to work with them to put in a changing display of your work to lead to further business. As anyone ever approached them around this?
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 10:40 AM on 01.23.08
->> Now that you've mentioned it here, I imagine you better get on that idea quickly or someone will beat you to it. It's a good idea.
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