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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Sports Contracts
Scobel Wiggins, Photographer
Corvallis | OR | USA | Posted: 12:21 PM on 08.29.07
->> The Ultimate Payers Association (UPA), the governing body for ultimate frisbee, requires that photographers attending their events sign a contract saying the UPA has first rights on all photography and can choose up to ten photos per day in each division (open, women's, mixed and masters) for publication in their newsletter. They demand 30 days exclusive rights, and they pay $20 per photo if they decide to print it, $10 if they only use it on the Web.
This is an adult, amateur league.
They want all photographers to supply them with everything they shoot so they can make their selections, a process that takes months.
I want to shoot because my boys play, but I don't know what to tell them about their contract.
I tried laughing, but they just got huffy.
Any advice would be very appreciated.
Thanks.
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Bob Ford, Photographer
Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 12:29 PM on 08.29.07
->> I'm not sure why you're asking what to do. The first shot on your member page is a UPA photo, so it looks like you already signed it.

My paper wouldn't allow me to sign it, and I wouldn't sign it even if I was shooting it for myself.
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Dominic Hanna, Photographer
Bear | DE | United States | Posted: 12:39 PM on 08.29.07
->> If you were shooting for them, I wouldn't have a problem with the 30 days exclusive, but that is a little cheap on the prices.

A 30 day embargo isn't bad, I've seen embargos go on for months. I would make it clear to them they have 30 days use, the momement the clock strikes midnight on day 30, they would go into my stock cataloge.

If they havn't made thier minds by then, that's thier problem.
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Matt Brown, Photographer
Fullerton | CA | USA | Posted: 12:42 PM on 08.29.07
->> Don't sign it.
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Rodrigo Pena, Photographer
Palm Desert | CA | USA | Posted: 12:49 PM on 08.29.07
->> Ditto.
Don't sign.
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 1:20 PM on 08.29.07
->> Don't sign it. If there were other options where my boys could play, I'd be looking for a new league if the won't let parents photograph their kids playing a game.
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Michael C. Weimar, Photographer
St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 1:29 PM on 08.29.07
->> Scobel,

Ditto to what Clark said above. Is your interest in shooting just your kids? If so, I don't see how they could prevent you from doing that unless they got every parent, grandparent, uncle, etc. with a point-and-shoot to sign the same contract. If they push the issue, find another league for your kids to participate in. If you are trying to shoot this for resale, licensing, stock, etc., it looks like you'll have to play by their crappy rules and crappy pay. For crying out loud, it seems as everyone has their hands in the cookie jar these days.

Mike
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Jeremy Harmon, Photo Editor, Photographer
Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 1:33 PM on 08.29.07
->> That contract has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of in my life.
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Jason Johns, Student/Intern, Photographer
Biddeford | ME | USA | Posted: 1:51 PM on 08.29.07
->> Wonder how many lawyers they have on the board of directors? I freelance with a local photographer, and he told me some horror stories of working tournaments where there were lawyers on the committee & all the free extras they wanted in exchange for allowing him to shoot the tourney/meet.

Times like this, I realize something my mom told me a long time ago: common sense ain't always so common.
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Matthew Ginn, Photographer
Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 2:00 PM on 08.29.07
->> Michael,

The UPA is the governing body for ultimate in the U.S. ... and if Scobel's kids are playing in the events he photographed in Florida, Texas, and Hawaii, then they're at the top level of the game. There is no real choice.

Here's a link to the "partnership" the UPA is offering:

http://www.upa.org/files/2007RecordingPartnership.pdf

It allows any photography for "personal use," so that deals with the parents/grandparents. But if you want to make images that are in any way sold or marketed (including editorial use) then you have to give them first dibs on your images. And the best part--if your sales (of the images the UPA doesn't take) exceed $1000, you have to pay them 10% of the proceeds. Make that 30% if you didn't sign the agreement in advance.

Yeah, I think I'll give this one a miss.
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Robert Seale, Photographer
Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 2:07 PM on 08.29.07
->> Tell them you're shooting as a parent and to go **** themselves.
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Alan Rogers, Photographer
Hickory | NC | USA | Posted: 2:12 PM on 08.29.07
->> This is why no one here has ever heard of, or seen photos of, the UPA. They're already screwing themselves, don't let them screw you too.
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Jesse Beals, Photographer
Silverdale | WA | USA | Posted: 2:19 PM on 08.29.07
->> You sign that contract and it could have a effect down the road on another sport like pee wee sports or little league.
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David M. Russell, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 2:24 PM on 08.29.07
->> I don't want to get all Bronx or nothin', but who the hell do they think they are that they (a frisbee league?) can start putting outrageous conditions on photo access.

If this isn't the greatest sign that all the rights grabbing garbage has gotten completely out of hand, I don't know what is.

I wouldn't sign it.

In fact, I'd tape it to a 185g 'bee and huck it as far as I could.
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Mark Peters, Photographer
Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 3:25 PM on 08.29.07
->> Normally I wouldn't point out a minor typo (Lord knows I have enough of my own) but the missing "L" in the league's name in the original post seems to be quite appropriate in this discussion.
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Richard Orr, Photographer
Longmeadow | MA | USA | Posted: 3:37 PM on 08.29.07
->> Sounds to me like someone took a sports management class in college. They are all the rage these days...I dont know where they are all going to work--but it appears someone has found a home in UPA.
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Wesley Hitt, Photographer
North Little Rock | AR | USA | Posted: 4:05 PM on 08.29.07
->> I second Robert Seale's comments. If you are not marketing your photos then I do not see how they can stop you from shooting your own kids. Sounds like what the LPGA tried to do.
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Jeff Hinds, Photographer
Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 5:21 PM on 08.29.07
->> The good news is you have the power to NOT sign up. I think sports photographers NEED a union for this type of $#!+. C'mon, telling you that you need to pay them to shoot and....if....they use your work then you get paid, wow, I'm floored.
3rd vote with Seale, you're a parent, shoot away.
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Jeremy Harmon, Photo Editor, Photographer
Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 6:09 PM on 08.29.07
->> I was bored and looked up the organization. In their photo agreement it says you can shoot whatever you want so long as it is for personal use.

http://tinyurl.com/2gcf6r
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
Washington | DC | US | Posted: 9:06 PM on 08.29.07
->> Matthew said:

"Make that 30% if you didn't sign the agreement in advance"

Please believe me when I tell you that without a signed agreement i.e. contract, I'd laugh my butt off when they told me I owed them 30%.

But seriously...who is going to license more than 1-2 images of frisbee in a lifetime? Frisbee?

This is probably the MOST press they have ever received!!!

dbr
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Thread Title: Sports Contracts
Thread Started By: Scobel Wiggins
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