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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

My pic of state champ fb team destroys their upcoming season
Jeff Blake, Photographer
Columbia | SC | USA | Posted: 9:32 AM on 05.22.07
->> This past high school football season, a local high school, in it's first year of fielding a team, won the state high school championship (an amazing story in itself). So the head coach takes an assistant coaching job at a small college, and I go out May 10 to take pix of Spring Practice for a story on the new coach filling big shoes, etc.

The new coach was very welcoming and helpful. I took photos of him interacting with players and got action pix of the star players, standard stuff. Unfortunately, they were practicing in pads, which it turns out, unbeknown to me, was a violation of South Carolina HS League rules.

The photo of the coach and players in pads ran in the paper, the league saw the photo, and every kid at the practice is ineligible for the entire season, and the team cannot compete in the playoffs.

Obviously, if they did violate rules, the coach should be punished, but I feel awfully bad for the kids.

Here's a link to the story and pic.

http://www.thestate.com/sports/story/69386.html

jb
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
Nashville | TN | U.S. | Posted: 9:49 AM on 05.22.07
->> What a horrible position for you to be in. Did the new coach understand at the time he was breaking the rule?
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Dennis Wierzbicki, Photographer
Plainfield | IL | USA | Posted: 10:06 AM on 05.22.07
->> Jeff, you don't need anyone here to tell you that your picture didn't "destroy their upcoming season". Your picture only recorded an event that the coach authorized. It's obviously an unfortunate situation, but as a journalist, you were only reporting events as they were occurring, not creating them.
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Mark Sutton, Photographer
Herndon | VA | USA | Posted: 10:08 AM on 05.22.07
->> I wouldn’t feel too bad. I know High Schools are under a strict budget, but the AD should have been aware of this rule. I also would have tagged my assistants to not only break down each section of the entire rule book for me and be well versed on any situation that might arise during the season, but also do some research on some of the State bylaws that may affect how we do things. That is not your problem on what happened because obviously you didn’t know.

This reminds me of a time way back when during my early years in the Air Force. I was stationed at Dover Air Force Base and a guy in my dorm used to roller skate to work in his uniform to save gas. The Base Paper ran a story on him about him being so efficient with his picture on the front page skating down the main road on base. But, there was one problem. He was out of uniform wearing skates and back then AFR 35-10 stipulated what was to be worn and there were no exceptions. Now this kid skated for almost 2 months without a problem until someone took his picture and all hell broke loose.
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Mitchell Clinton, Photographer
Carlsbad | CA | USA | Posted: 10:21 AM on 05.22.07
->> Had you known that your subject was breaking the rules and would get in trouble, would you have not shown the photos? As a news person I think you would have run them anyway

If you had chosen not to run the photos for that reason I think that would have been much worse than photoshoping a foot out of a photo
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Jack Megaw, Student/Intern, Photographer
West Chester | PA | United States | Posted: 10:32 AM on 05.22.07
->> Personally I think the rule is stupid- it's high school, its not the NFL- Perhaps the coach should have known better- perhaps he didn't know the rule- but he is not the one they are hurting- can you imagine being in your senior year of high school, and then being told you can't play for the whole season?

I really feel sorry for the players.

-Jack
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 10:46 AM on 05.22.07
->> I agree with Jack. Rules that punish kids for what coaches do are unfair, in my opinion. The coaches may be around for the next 10, 20, or 30 seasons, for the seniors, this is it. This is like giving everyone on the bus a speeding ticket because the bus driver was going too fast.
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
Nashville | TN | U.S. | Posted: 10:51 AM on 05.22.07
->> I believe they can play the season, just not the playoffs.
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John Howley, Photographer
Circleville | OH | USA | Posted: 11:07 AM on 05.22.07
->> The school can still field a team during the regular season, but ... "In addition, players who participated in the illegal practices are ineligible for the entire season."

It's too bad for the kids, but the coach is supposed to know the rules. While I'm sure you feel bad for the kids Jeff, you did nothing wrong.
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Samuel Lewis, Photographer
Miami | FL | USA | Posted: 11:31 AM on 05.22.07
->> Have we finally reached a point as a society where we are entirely incapable of taking responsibility for our own actions?

It is a stretch to suggest that these rules punish the kids for what the coaches do. If the kids didn't engage in the wrongful conduct, it would be difficult (if not impossible) for the coaches to violate the rules.

There are lots of rules that may seem stupid. Sure, this isn't the NFL, but the NCAA has rules that many would consider stupid, and that doesn't prevent schools from being punished for violating those rules. The fact is there are rules governing HS football, and presumably there are other schools complying with those rules (or at least finding a way to bend the rules without outright breaking them). If the Coach can't be bothered to learn the rules, the players should. To take the attitude that these kids are being punished for something the coaches did ignores the fact that these kids have to learn how to take responsibility for their own actions, and if they can't, they're going to be in for a rude awakening assuming they ever advance to the next level.

Jeff, it's unfortunate that you captured images of the coaches AND kids violating the rules. However, you should not apologize to anyone for having taken the photograph or the consequences that flow from it. Your obligation to the general public to be truthful in your presentation of the news far outweighs any interest the coach or players have in concealing their wrongful conduct.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 11:51 AM on 05.22.07
->> I guess it's no less a stretch to think that the players knew the rule.
Jeff, from the rule book....


5. Practice Information:
a. A school shall not permit contact practice in pads or otherwise between its last game and August 1.
Pads include padding of any kind on the shoulders, hips or thighs.
NOTE: Schools are permitted 10 days of practice in helmets and shoulder pads between the last 30
days of school and the first two weeks after the closing of school. The use of pads and the sled is also
permitted. Person to person contact is allowed within limitations. (An instructional film/DVD is
available at the League Office.)
b. High school programs may practice in helmets and shoulder pads and use sleds and hard core
dummies beginning July 28.
c. Air type or foam filled dummies will be permitted during any practice.
d. All contests below the varsity level must end before the last regularly scheduled game of the varsity
team.
e. A student taking part in an illegal football practice will be ineligible for the following football season.

It seems to me anyway the the *note* allows the use of pads AND the sled... "The use of pads and the sled is also
permitted." the term pad is defined in the rule.


Looks like a huge gaping loophole to me.....
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Landon Finch, Photographer
Colorado Springs | CO | USA | Posted: 12:49 PM on 05.22.07
->> As a former high school basketball coach, I would not expect my athletes to know such by-laws. That's my job as the coach. In CO, the coaches are tested over the by-laws, not the athletes. Shame on this coach.
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Ron Erdrich, Photographer
Abilene | TX | USA | Posted: 12:56 PM on 05.22.07
->> >>Schools are permitted 10 days of practice in helmets and shoulder pads between the last 30
days of school and the first two weeks after the closing of school.

Well, then according to this it is perfectly legal for them to practice as we are in the last 30 days of the school year. It's only during the summer that they can't practice in pads, not until July 28.

So if school ends May 25, they can practice in pads from April 25 to June 7 just so long as they don't do it for more than 10 days total.

Were they practicing longer than 10 days and was that mentioned in the story or did the coach confess to it when questioned by the League?

-Ron-
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Derek Montgomery, Photographer
Duluth | MN | USA | Posted: 12:59 PM on 05.22.07
->> Ron,

The photos show them in full pads (hip and leg pads and the whole deal) which I think is what violated the rules.
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Ron Erdrich, Photographer
Abilene | TX | USA | Posted: 1:48 PM on 05.22.07
->> I don't know, the rules (as published here, where can we see an original version?)say they can practice in pads, it doesn't limit them to only shoulder or hip pads or whatever.

But forget about what we think, I'm wondering what the community thinks. Those parents are probably ready to light torches and storm the League offices.

-R-
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 1:57 PM on 05.22.07
->> I found them here:

http://www.schsl.org/2006/06%20handbook.htm

Turn to page B-13
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Jeff Blake, Photographer
Columbia | SC | USA | Posted: 3:34 PM on 05.22.07
->> I definitely know I am not to blame at all and don't feel guilty, I would have photographed and published the pictures even if I had known, I just feel bad for the kids. Several are D-1 college prospects. The coach is taking full responsibility for not knowing the rules.

The rule is that they can wear shoulder pads and helmets, but they must where shorts (to discourage contact). They don't want it to be full-contact year-round.

And to clarify, yes they can field a team, but every player that was at the practice is ineligible, so that would make it near impossible.

I think they should be punished, but this seams awfully harsh.
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Jeremy Harmon, Photo Editor, Photographer
Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 3:39 PM on 05.22.07
->> Wow. What a story. Does the coach still have his job. If that happened here, the parents of the players would have run the guy out of town and then burned his house down.
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Kevin Johnston, Photographer
Oden | MI | USA | Posted: 3:56 PM on 05.22.07
->> Lets see, punish the kids for following the directions of the authority figure. Hmmmm....

Great life lesson there.
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Dennis Wierzbicki, Photographer
Plainfield | IL | USA | Posted: 4:50 PM on 05.22.07
->> Yeah, and more than a little ironic that those who are feeling the most "pain" from this ruling are the ones the rule was probably implemented to protect: the kids. If the idea was to discourage year-round full contact, then put the school on probation for a year like the NCAA would do for recruiting violations, or come up with an alternate form of discipline that doesn't cause the students to pay the price for the mistakes of their teacher.

Maybe the coach should resign - falling on his own sword or throwing himself under his own bus...choose your own metaphor. Would this satisfy the need to punish?

I understand fully the requirement for rules and the need for enforcement. However, rules are made by people, and people cannot anticipate every potential combination of events, which is why these things should be subject to review and appeal.
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Samuel Lewis, Photographer
Miami | FL | USA | Posted: 5:37 PM on 05.22.07
->> Kevin, that logic didn't work for the Nazis at Nuremberg or Calley at Mi Lai. Why should we condone it here?

Or perhaps we should bring the issue a little closer to home...

If your photo editor insisted that you materially alter a news photograph prior to its publication, and you knew that the request (and resulting manipulation if you comply with the request) constitutes a violation of the NPPA's ethics policy. Would you violate the policy because your editor instructed you to do so?

As for the kids and their responsibility, has anyone asked the kids if they knew what they did was wrong before they did it? If they knew it was wrong and did it anyway, then why shouldn't they have to face the consequences of their actions?
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Doug Holleman, Photographer
Temple | TX | USA | Posted: 9:48 PM on 05.22.07
->> Sounds like a pretty silly rule, though I'm sure it's common. What is the theory being allowing practice in shoulder pads and helmets, but no other pads?

Seems like if you have shoulder pads on, you're gonna hit. And if you're gonna hit, you should have on more pads. Unless it's just to get used to the weight...in which case it still makes a lot more sense having the full compliment of pads.
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Mark Buffalo, Photographer
Lonoke | AR | USA | Posted: 11:55 PM on 05.22.07
->> The state of ARkansas is more advanced than South Carolina? My smallest high school just had a black-gold scrimmage game on Monday and it was full contact.

Arkansas schools can practice in full pads for five days in the last 3 weeks of school.

Mark
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 12:07 AM on 05.23.07
->> sam, with all due respect, if you're a high school kid do you think you know the rules of off season practice? sure you know you can't facemask, kick, bite, claw, use your helmet as a weapon..but when you can practice and when you can't? ah no. you practice when coach calls practice. that is a totally absurd analogy to equate either Mi Lai or violating an ethics policy with these kids practicing at a called practice
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Bob Nichols, Photographer
Tipton | IN | USA | Posted: 12:30 AM on 05.23.07
->> A similar event just occurred here in Indiana after a local TV station filmed an early morning football practice.

"The ruling completed an investigation that began last week when school administrators self-reported the violation, which followed WTHR-13's traffic helicopter videotaping players and coaches on the field during an early-morning May 2 workout. WTHR is The Star's newsgathering partner."

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007705190451

The penalties in this case were not as severe. The blame in both cases has to be with the coach.
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Keith Simonian, Photographer
Martinez | CA | USA | Posted: 12:41 AM on 05.23.07
->> Sam,
Say what?
"that logic didn't work for the Nazis at Nuremberg or Calley at Mi Lai."

Is somehow kids wearing hip and legs pads during spring football
practice the same was what happened at Mi Lai or the Nazi death camps?

That comparison is unfathonable to me.
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Samuel Lewis, Photographer
Miami | FL | USA | Posted: 8:09 AM on 05.23.07
->> Keith and Chuck,

Kids these days are increasingly aware of the rules, as are coaches and schools that want to stay as competitive as possible. To want to forgive these kids for "following orders" without even inquiring whether the kids knew what they were doing was wrong is irresponsible.

At some point, the kids have to learn that there are consequences for their actions, and that they will have to be responsible for their actions. If they don't learn the lesson now as young adults, when will they learn it? As adults? When it is too late to prevent the next Mi Lai?

To condone the "following orders" excuse in this context and condemn it in another is hypocritical.
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Joshua Brown, Photographer
Waynesville | NC | USA | Posted: 9:40 AM on 05.23.07
->> I think the big difference here is that any "normal" person can see that killing someone is wrong under nearly every moral standard. Any "normal" person would not see practicing in pads as wrong if there is no concept of when legal dates are. That is the difference between Mi Lai or Nuremberg when compared to kids in SC.

I agree, however, that kids should be held accountable IF they knew the rules and made a conscious decision to break them. But I'm not going to speculate as to if they knew the rules or not.

And as has been said before, Jeff, your photos did not ruin an upcoming season. A coach's decision, informed or otherwise, caused the problems.
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Robert Caplin, Photographer
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 9:45 AM on 05.23.07
->> That sucks for the kids, but something tells me they'll get over it...now they'll have more time to spend with their girlfriends and buddies, study, and just be teenagers...

It's a bummer of a spot you were put in, but I'm sure everyone knew you were doing your job and like them, had know idea there were rules being broken. This is strictly the coach's fault and his alone, which is inexcusable.

As for the rules, I find them a bit silly for high schoolers, but I'm sure they're in place for a reason.

Best,
Robert
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Michael Granse, Photographer
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 10:26 AM on 05.23.07
->> Ahhhh yes. More support for Godwin's LaW (see below for further information).

As for the kids, blaming THEM for showing up on time and prepared for practice, legal or otherwise, is silly and comparing them to the Nazis is absurd.

Anyone who has ever played a team sport knows that you show up for practice on time and ready to go or you might lose your position on the team to someone else who DOES show up for practice on time and ready to go.

I have played a lot of team sports, and I can tell you with near certainty that the players are relatively clueless when it comes to the dates on the calendar that tell you what you can and can not do. The players rely on the coaches for this information, and when the coaches say "practice on Monday, 4:00pm, full pads" the players will show up at the appointed place and time with their gear (some will forget a few items, but in general the team will be assembled with most of their equipment).

It is unfortunate that rules were broken here, but it is absolutely absurd to make these kids give up an entire season for someone else's mistake. The rules were either misinterpreted or deliberately ignored, but the kids were following reasonable instructions from adults who they are supposed to be able to trust.




******** GODWIN'S LAW *********

Godwin’s Law (also known as Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

Godwin’s Law does not dispute whether any particular reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued, that overuse of the Nazi/Hitler comparison should be avoided, as it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

Although in one of its early forms Godwin’s Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions, the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads and wiki talk pages.

Godwin has stated that he introduced Godwin’s law as an experiment in memetics.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 10:29 AM on 05.23.07
->> Sam,

Your comparison is grossly hurtful and inappropriate. To either minimize the Nazi's to the level of high school football players or elevate high school football players to the level of butchers shielding themselves behind Hitler is wrong on so many levels that I can't and won't even get into it here.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 10:33 AM on 05.23.07
->> Michael,

I had never heard of Godwin's Law but how true it is. We must have been typing at the same time. I edited and then simply deleted most of what I had written. In this case less was more.

-Eric
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Samuel Lewis, Photographer
Miami | FL | USA | Posted: 2:29 PM on 05.23.07
->> Eric,

Respectfully, you've completely missed my point. I'm not comparing what the kids did to anything done by the Nazis. Indeed, from the article itself, it is not apparent that the kids have attempted to avoid responsibility by laying blame with the coach. Thus, it is our What I am attempting to do is highlight the problem with encouraging the next generation to seek to avoid responsibility for their actions by claiming that they were merely following the orders of an authority figure. If the kids knew the rules and knew what they were doing was wrong, they deserve the punishment for it. It's all about taking responsibility for our actions, and unfortunately, that's a lesson some of our youth never learn (or learn the hard way).

My example of an editor instructing a photographer to alter a photograph still stands, although nobody seems to have addressed it. Perhaps that simply hits too close to home.
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 4:36 PM on 05.23.07
->> I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've ever seen a thread on SS Godwined!

Let this day go down in the annals of message board history!
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Mark Buffalo, Photographer
Lonoke | AR | USA | Posted: 4:46 PM on 05.23.07
->> These players would have been disciplined in one way or another if they didn't show up for practice in full pads like the coach said. So don't blame the kids in this situation. Because if they want to play, they do what they are told or it is supposed to be like that.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 6:24 PM on 05.23.07
->> sam, no one addressed your statement about an editor instructing a photographer to alter a photograph =what happened to these kids because it made about as much sense as comparing them to nazis and the massacre in vietnam.
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JohnPaul Greco, Photographer, Assistant
Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 7:36 PM on 05.23.07
->> For you "Rules are Rules" guys..


Ok...a new law passes & I have a new law to enforce /"rule".. If I see someone driving in their car without both hands on the wheel, but doing something else other than shifting gears, like eating, yapping on their cell, putting on lipstick, shaving...picking their nose.. etc.. I will pull them over, and issue them a ticket where the penalty will be ("if convicted")..losing your right to drive for the next 8 years!

Oh,...and in this senario, the law went into effect within 24 hours,...but hey,...the stupid motorist should have known better any ways.. right..? ;-)

JP
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Mike Vander Veer, Student/Intern, Photographer
Cheney | WA | USA | Posted: 9:20 PM on 05.23.07
->> Sam,

"To want to forgive these kids for "following orders" without even inquiring whether the kids knew what they were doing was wrong is irresponsible."

To forgive someone is to acknowledge that they first did something wrong. We don't know if they did anything wrong because like you said, we don't know if they knew the rules or not.

Whether they did or they didn't, and despite even if they chose to ignore them, it's the coach's job to know the rules and subsequently educate and enforce them. Do you think that players would have worn full pads had the coach known the rule and did his job to enforce them? No, because any player that did would no longer be playing on the team. Either way, the coach is ultimately to blame for his incompetence.

Although I believe the punishment is far too harsh, it's an unfortunate incident that will hopefully serve as a learning tool in the future.
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 9:44 PM on 05.23.07
->> Geez, I'm glad I'm not Samuel's kid. Expectations are way too high...
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Greg Foster, Photographer
Atlanta | GA | | Posted: 10:39 PM on 05.23.07
->> If a high school football coach tells his players to take the field in full pads, that's what they do. If he tells them to take the field in shorts and helmets, that's what they do. If he tells them to go full contact, that's what they do. A high school football player's job is not to question his coach's authority, his job is to go out and give his best effort and perform to the best of his ability. That is just the way football is at the high school level and beyond. It is the COACH'S job to know the game, and to know the rules, and to teach both, to COACH both, to his players. That's why he is there. I can assure you there are few, if any, high school players sitting around the locker room studying the rule book. They know that their COACH is supposed to teach them these things.

This coach made a mistake, and I'm betting that it was not intentional. There is just no real advantage to be gained by putting on thigh and knee pads for a few practices. Now, because of this mistake, these kids might be deprived of what could be some of the best times of their lives, as well as the positive lessons that a lot of kids this age learn through participation in organized sports, and that is the real shame. (Not to mention the guys on this team who are college prospects and might not be able to afford college any other way.) Because of this, I think this punishment is ridiculous, and I hope that through some sort of appeal these kids at least get to play ball this fall, whether they are eligible for the playoffs or not.

To relate this to the prevention of future war crimes is beyond my comprehension. These are just some 14 - 18 year old kids out there trying to play some ball and do what their coaches tell them to do.

And Jeff, obviously you were just doing your job. If that coach had known he was doing something wrong, I doubt he would have been so accomodating as you described. I'm wondering if he came in from another state which might have had different rules...
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Dan Goldfarb, Photographer
Staten Island | NY | USA | Posted: 10:52 PM on 05.23.07
->> Greg, my thoughts echo yours

"Not to mention the guys on this team who are college prospects and might not be able to afford college any other way."

There may be SERIOUS financial implications for some of these kids- they may have gotten free rides, or acceptance to schools through football prowess that they will now have zero chance at. This REALLY sucks,

Tell them about how they got to spend more time with their buddies and girlfriends 10 years from now when they are pumping gas instead of working somewhere at a desk with a college degree on the wall.

I seriously hope some lawyers down in your area take on their case and get them justice.

Make them forfeit their rights to post-season play if you must, punish the coach, restrict their future practices, but let the kids play.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 12:46 AM on 05.24.07
->> JP, WTF? I give up...slap me please...somebody...what in the devil are you talking about?
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Robert Catto, Photographer
Wellington | NZ | New Zealand | Posted: 12:53 AM on 05.24.07
->> Hang on - if they practise football without pads, that makes them...a rugby team!

(Now they just need to learn to throw sideways, instead of forward...)
R!
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JohnPaul Greco, Photographer, Assistant
Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 10:09 PM on 05.24.07
->> Chuck:

hmm...


ok ...bad example...


.....but can you understand how horrible this is to those kids..? To us, the penalty would be like losing your license for a very long time for something so ..."who gives a rip" about small..much like how these kid's futures are now ruined because of this! How would you feel if you were the dad of one of those kids..?

I'd guess if you'd want to unmotivate a team,... I'd tell them that no matter what you do this entire season, you will not play in the playoffs..

That doesn't seem like a fair punnishment for these kids who follow what their coaches tell them to do should have to pay in my humble opinion.. I think the rules are a joke.. Furthermore,....when I read the topic line, I thought that the OP took some snaps of a varsity FB team having a beer party...or something along those lines... not for following orders issued to them by their coach, for wearing certain "pads" that weren't allowed..??!!

Please tell me "WTF" is up with that..??!!

BTW, I always remembered photographing teams in preseason practice wearing full pads.. Perhaps things have recently changed, or everyone was "just doing it".....because no one was enforcing that policy.. Much like driving 1 mile an hour over the speed limit.. I've never heard of anyone getting pulled over for that.....and maybe they just happen to have an over zealous official now.. who knows..

I just thought I'd offer up a few unpopular opinions of my own.. ;-)

JP
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Brandon Iwamoto, Student/Intern, Photographer
Aurora | CO | USA | Posted: 10:37 PM on 05.24.07
->> Sam, have you ever heard of the Milgram Experiment, Asch conformity experiments, or the Stanford Prison Study? Theyre experiments I learned about in psychology class that may apply here.

"The Milgram experiment, which studied how far people would go to obey an authority figure. Following the events of the Holocaust in World War II, the experiment showed that normal American citizens were capable of following orders to the point of causing extreme suffering in an innocent human being" -Wikipedia

"The Asch conformity experiments from the 1950s, a series of studies that starkly demonstrated the power of conformity on people's estimation of the length of lines (Asch, 1955). On over a third of the trials, participants conformed to the majority, even though the majority judgment was clearly wrong. Seventy-five percent of the participants conformed at least once during the experiment." -Wikipedia

"The Stanford prison experiment, by Philip Zimbardo, where a simulated exercise between student prisoners and guards showed how far people would follow an adopted role. This was an important demonstration of the power of the immediate social situation, and its capacity to overwhelm normal personality traits" -Wikipedia

Basically, even if one or two players knew the rules and knew what they were doing was wrong, who were they to speak up about it? It supports the argument that even if players did know the rules (which i doubt... theres a similar CHSAA rules here, my brother didnt even know about, and he plays high school football) then they may not necessarily be capable or willing to go against the coach, who is placed in the role of the authority figure (whereas they are playing the role of obedient athletes under the coaches tutelage). And for one or two players to go against the flow of his 30 or so other teammates make it an even harder task, it's much easier to just conform (even if it does cost them the season).

Jeez, who knew I payed THAT much attention in class...?
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 12:43 AM on 05.26.07
->> well, JP, not wanting to bust your chops or anything but maybe you should have read the post and not the tagline before you respond= "Furthermore,....when I read the topic line, I thought that the OP took some snaps of a varsity FB team having a beer party...or something along those lines... not for following orders issued to them by their coach, for wearing certain "pads" that weren't allowed..??!! " and I just also have to put this out there...where in the world did you get the idea I wasn't on the kid's side? this was and is entirely the coaches fault.........and just to be honest with you...I still don't understand what point you're trying to make...........
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JohnPaul Greco, Photographer, Assistant
Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 8:51 AM on 05.29.07
->> Chuck I did read the whole post, not just the subject line..

Where do you get the idea that I didn't read any of the message..?

I'm not accusing you of anything, I was asking "you", the reader what was absolutely necessary about following the "rules" when they get broken all the time/ don't get enforced, and considering the penalties, they seem to me to be too harsh, unless "you"/ the reader feels they should be enforced no matter how slight the infraction is, regardless of the penalty.. Of course, that is just MY opinion I am sharing..


A few days ago, I observed another HS football team wearing pads in their practice.. Maybe the rules are different around here, or maybe we have some people who aren't so quick to pull the "kill" trigger..

Does that answer you..?



JP
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Jeff Blake, Photographer
Columbia | SC | USA | Posted: 8:25 PM on 08.02.07
->> Another unbelievable twist to this story:

Last week, the South Carolina High School League decided to allow the team to play their regular season schedule (although they are still prohibited from the post season).

Monday, we sent out a photographer (not me this time!) to cover their practice, again they are very friendly and helpful. So a photo runs in our paper and a gallery of photos runs on our website. It turns out that one of the web gallery photos shows two linemen engaged in full-contact, with the head coach looking on in the background. Full contact is not allowed before Aug. 1.

So, in just a few months, this new coach violates two rules, which we inadvertently photograph, which is in turn brought to the attention of the HS League. What was this guy thinking?

The coach resigned today and the school board decides that is enough punishment.

Here's a link to the story and the most recent photo that got him in trouble:

http://www.thestate.com/breaking/story/135328.html
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Mark Buffalo, Photographer
Lonoke | AR | USA | Posted: 8:55 PM on 08.02.07
->> You would think they would learn.

In Arkansas, you can start two-a-days in the fifth week of the school calender, which is this week. And on thursday of the fifth week, you can practice in full pads, which was today.

I feel bad for the kids but luckily, they still get to play their season even if they don't get to defend their title
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Dave Prelosky, Photographer
Lower Burrell | Pa | US | Posted: 9:13 PM on 08.02.07
->> Mark,
As a point of order, do kids in Arkansas start school in late June?

dp
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