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Yet another shooter shut down, this time its the CIA!
George F. Lee, Photo Editor, Photographer
Honolulu | HI | USA | Posted: 3:22 PM on 03.14.07
->> Crimaney! All in the name of homeland security.

Heres the link:
http://www.ilind.net/
Its the third item down on the March 14th entry of this blog.


Sieg Heil!
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Brian Schneider, Student/Intern
Clemson | SC | | Posted: 9:08 PM on 03.15.07
->> I'm probably going to get jumped all over because of this, but it is more in the name of security for the CIA agent. Yes he is giving a public recruiting brief, but if there is a identifiable picture and a name with it, and posted online or published in a newspaper, that makes that guy a target for bad guys. They are just protecting the identity of the guy.
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Michael McNamara, Photo Editor, Photographer
Lincoln | NE | USA | Posted: 9:33 PM on 03.15.07
->> Sorry Brian, but if the CIA wants to have a recruiting presentation in a public place and invite the public via prior announcements, they have no expectation of privacy.
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 10:24 PM on 03.15.07
->> I've photographed in the CIA 3 times now. That's right, inside the CIA. Of course I was escorted and only photographed those who agreed to be photographed. But it's not unheard of photographing employees of the CIA.

That said, I have a problem with shutting down press coverage on public property. If the CIA wanted to recruit and show power-point presentations (too bad they don't know Keynote Speaker - a much better program), then they should hire a private space to have it. Then invite the public to attend in their controlled private space, such as a hotel conference room.

Good intensions with poor execution. Clearly the CIA needs to hire more PR people than spies. Grin.
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John Lee, Photographer
San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 12:22 AM on 03.16.07
->> this particular director of career services and former jarhead was probably looking to crack some "liberal media" heads in the name of homeland security, and took it out on the first fotog that pissed him off. i agree, if this cia agent is supposed to be so damn clandestine, then what the hell is he doing running presentation at a public university? this jarhead was probably more pissed off about the possibility of the fotog giving the protesters coverage than actually thinking about their specific verbage about no photos of the cia agent or his presentation. verbage (if accurate in this link) didn't say anything about forbidding shooting of audience and stuff going on around the presentation.
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 9:10 AM on 03.16.07
->> "Sieg Heil!".... Come now people!

Anyone that's spent any time here knows that a "public" event on "public" property doesn't mean that anyone is free to photograph, video tape, or audio record it. This is no different than the exact same types of restrictions that universities allow professors to impose on their lectures all of the time. The next time a student or student paper is prevented from, or threatened with sanctions for, taping a "controversial" teacher, I expect the same folks to show up here with the brownshirt trivializations.
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Dave Pawlak, Photographer
Soquel | Ca | USA | Posted: 12:26 PM on 03.16.07
->> I agree they lose all expectation to privacy by holding the recruitment in a public venue. With regard to expectation of privacy. I'm fairly sure that the whole expectation of privacy thing allows you to be present for the venue and not necessarily make permanent record of it. ???

However, is it possible they were trying to hide the identities of potential agents? Just because they do not work for the Agency now does not mean they will not in the future.

It seems to me in order to smooth out these wrinkles between law enforcement and the press is something as simple as an explanation or direction.
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 12:46 PM on 03.16.07
->> Too bad the CIA wasn't as careful with Valerie Plame Wilson's identity.

It cost a lot of money training a CIA agent and keeping their cover covered.

Seems it would be so much easier if we all simply repeat Geoff with "Sieg Heil!", even though I find that phrase offensive, especially to those of us whose families might have been victims of Nazi Germany & Austria.
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 1:31 PM on 03.16.07
->> OK, for the "Huh?" folks, let me elaborate...

It's a fact that events open to the general public, on public land do not give an automatic right for someone to take photos or video for either editorial or commericial purposes. The classic example often mentioned here is a high school athletic event. A Principal, AD, or anyone else in such a position of authority may ask anyone to leave the property at any time for any reason. A state university is no different.

It's also a fact that university faculty may restrict recording of presentations that they make in campus settings. This often crops up when an "outspoken" teacher, like Ward Churchill, locks horns with a group of students over the content of a class. Many universities have formalized this prohibition against unauthorized recording in student codes. Here's an example from Rutgers concerning the ADA accomodations for students that cannot take notes: "Faculty concerned about copyright and inappropriate use of the tapes may enter into a written agreement with the student requiring the student to use the tapes only in connection with his/her personal understanding and completion of the course and requiring the student to turn over all tapes at the end of the term."
http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~polcomp/fachand.shtml So how is the power that lecturers are routinely granted at universities any different than honoring such a request from an outside presenter... be it in or outside of a classroom setting?

Also, the "expectation of privacy" issue would only matter if the agent attempted to sue someone if they succeeded in getting the agents photo at the event and publishing it. In that case, I'd agree that the agent would not likely win in court. But that has no bearing on the university being able to grant any request for the prohibition of still or video cameras at the event.

Lastly, there's no evidence that press coverage of the event was "shut down". Protesters were granted admission to the presentation and allowed to protest peacefully. I also have no doubt that members of the media were allowed to be present, take notes, and write stories about the event after the fact. I doubt that these were things that Hitler's detractors were allowed to do at the time.
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Joe Nicola, Photographer
Fort Worth | TX | USA | Posted: 1:38 PM on 03.16.07
->> After reading the blog entry, it sounds to me as though people were told they would not be allowed to shoot stills or video. That being said, it doesn't matter if it's public or not, a notice was given that stated what the restrictions were and if someone went with the intention of pushing the limit, then they deserve to see what the result would be: ejection.

An agent giving a briefing for the CIA might be doing that today, but next month he may be stationed or otherwise located somewhere else in the world where his or her cover may be critical. With that in mind, I think it is prudent to respect the restrictions put in place to at least safeguard this to some degre.

And it wasn't the CIA who blew Valerie Plame's cover...it was the administration of President Bush.

I agree with Brian. The event in Athens, Greece, where a CIA operative was shot to death in front of his home after an American journalist "outed" him in the name of "freedom of the press," should be reason enough to keep their identities under wraps to the extent possible.

I'll catch a lot of grief for this, but the American public doesn't need to know everything that goes on in the intelligence community. That's what oversight panels and committees are for.
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Eric Canha, Photographer
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 2:03 PM on 03.16.07
->> Geoff,

Very well stated.
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Rick Rowell, Photographer
Canoga Park | CA | Usa | Posted: 3:05 PM on 03.16.07
->> OK, Once again I will say it. NO POLITICS!!

"And it wasn't the CIA who blew Valerie Plame's cover...it was the administration of President Bush."

This did not need to be mentioned on the message board. It was off Topic.
This type of thing is for another message board somewhere else. My 2 cents.
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George F. Lee, Photo Editor, Photographer
Honolulu | HI | USA | Posted: 5:08 PM on 03.16.07
->> Speaking of Valerie Plame......

No one was "outing" this dude as a covert operative. He had presented himself, HIMSELF!, as a representative of the CIA well in advance of this recruiting engagement. Far enough in advance for some to organize a peaceful protest.

Granted, the CIA could have probably handled this better - like hire a PR and marketing firm to represent them or hold their event in a private place, by invitation only.

.........and I do believe agents career tracked into covert operations are not assigned public speaking events..........they don't even SAY who they are.

Now what was that thing about exchanging liberty for security?

Bring it on.


Sieg Heil!
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Brian Schneider, Student/Intern
Clemson | SC | | Posted: 5:22 PM on 03.16.07
->> It's not a matter of Homeland Security it is a matter of ther person's safety. It sounds like the people were allowed to shoot the protesters outside, but not the CIA agent. All you need is a picture and a name, you would be surprised what a terrorist or anybody else might be able to find out about a person. The CIA is just protecting their employee's life. Being a employee, not even an operative, of ANY inteligence agency is a sensitive job, because there are always people trying to find somebody to exploit or harm at those agencies.
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 8:56 PM on 03.16.07
->> My school has hosted CIA recruiters, and we've published photos of their presentation in our weekly newsletter, not once, but twice.

I'm sorry, but this whole thing sounds a little incredible to me. For some reason, when the CIA is involved, people are willing to believe almost anything.

What does sound more credible to me is the bit about the overzealous PR guy. Now THAT is believable. Take it from me, I am one. :-)
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 11:10 PM on 03.16.07
->> Not everyone who works for the CIA is a spook, especially recruiters who speak publicly.

Again, it's too bad the CIA wasn't allowed to protect the identity of one of their agents from politicians in Washington DC. That blunder cost we tax payers a bundle, as well as the loss of assets associated with Ms. Wilson.

Reading all this over, the people who went to this school to recruit really blew it. They turned something that could have been good into a lightning rod. This makes me question how my tax dollars are being spent. This makes me want the media to investigate, which means full coverage.

Now I don't want any clandestine assest of any intellegence agency compromised. I simply want to know why this situation was so poorly handled. Can't the CIA hire good people anymore?

Folks, I found myself behind the iron curtain two weeks after it started to fall. Believe me, what I saw makes me question anyone who would give up one once of liberty for security. Security from what? Terrorist or our own politicians?
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John Lee, Photographer
San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 11:41 PM on 03.16.07
->> uh oh. be careful walter! no politics here! let's all go back to being cows and talk about nice things like nikon vs canon, or what color monopod pad is best. after all, isn't that more important than civil liberties?
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
New England | | USA | Posted: 12:24 AM on 03.17.07
->> Brian

The recruiter, up front with multiple people around them, that do not have security clearance that grants them access to the identity of clandestine operatives, is not really in any danger. This person may do field research, but they are certainly not in the clandestine operations of the CIA.

This person has no expected right to privacy since they are hosting a public recruiting event that was advertised and open to all people.

I sent about 3.5 years spending more than half my time documenting homeland security , both domestically and abroad. I learned very quickly who I could and could not shoot. Anyone who was speaking in public with an open audience was clearly fair game (no matter what they said)
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
New England | | USA | Posted: 12:28 AM on 03.17.07
->> FYI: The CIA has no authority on US soil. The CIA only technically carries out operations outside the US. Operations within the US are handled , typically, by the FBI.
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Joe Nicola, Photographer
Fort Worth | TX | USA | Posted: 11:48 AM on 03.17.07
->> Rick,

I marked your post "off topic" because it wasn't a post about the topic of "Yet another shooter shut down, this time its [sic] the CIA!"

My post was specifically about the blog referenced in the original post. If you object to a comment---one comment---in my post, that's your right; although, it hardly makes my entire post "off topic."

And that's just my 3.1415 cents.
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Dave Yoder, Photographer
Milan | IT | Italy | Posted: 9:22 AM on 03.18.07
->> Why is this even debatable? The guy was in an advertised, open forum. If security were an issue he obviously shouldn't have been doing that. They were justing being consistent to this administration--abusing the invocation of national security.

That, and mentioning Valerie Plame, are entirely germaine to this thread--and they only seem to be "political" if it puts the republicans in a bad light. Personally, I find someone trying to shut down such comments to be acting with purely political motivations.

Anyway... this is the kind of incremental eroding of photography/press freedoms that must be nipped at the bud before they bloom. And they willl if they are not resisted.
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Thread Title: Yet another shooter shut down, this time its the CIA!
Thread Started By: George F. Lee
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