| Sign in: |
| Members log in here with your user name and password to access the your admin page and other special features. |
|
|
|
|
|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
US ties for 53rd
Jeremy Harmon, Photographer
 |
Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 3:47 PM on 12.06.06 |
->> I got this in my email this morning from Today's Word On Journalism
TODAY'S WORD ON JOURNALISM--Wednesday, Dec. 6, 2006
Freedom Alert: United States ties for 53rd of 168
nations worldwide with Botswana and Tonga in 2006
world "press freedom index," says international
watchdog group Reporters Without Borders:
"I used to tell my students on the first day
of class that we had the freest speech and press
in the world. I can't do that anymore."
--William Bennett Turner, law school professor, 2006
(in Cokie Roberts' and Steve Roberts' syndicated column 12/4/06) |
|
Mike Carlson, Photographer
 |
Bayonet Point | FL | USA | Posted: 4:14 PM on 12.06.06 |
->> A link to the full report from "Reporters Without Borders" who compiled the list is here:
http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=639
A partial reason from the report for the drop from 17th in 2002 to 53rd for the US this year...
"Relations between the media and the Bush administration sharply deteriorated after the president used the pretext of “national security” to regard as suspicious any journalist who questioned his “war on terrorism.” The zeal of federal courts which, unlike those in 33 US states, refuse to recognise the media’s right not to reveal its sources, even threatens journalists whose investigations have no connection at all with terrorism." |
|
Michael Granse, Photographer
 |
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 4:41 PM on 12.06.06 |
->> I think we should take up a collection and see if the geniuses that came up with these rankings would like a one way ticket to some of the less than favorable places to live that finished ahead of the United States in these rankings.
I simply do not understand nor can I identify with the overt self loathing that so many citizens of our country are expressing. America, while imperfect, is a better place to live than most of the rest of the world. If we have really reached a point where we define ourselves as a good and just nation based on who occupies the White House on any given day then we should all be a bit worried. America, or the IDEA of America, is bigger than The President.
The poorest of our poor live in better conditions than the middle class in many other nations. My CATS eat safer and healthier food and drink cleaner and safer water than most PEOPLE in so many other places. Every four years we have an election, and when the votes are counted the winner becomes (or remains) president and the challenger goes home to try again another time. We do not find ourselves running for our lives as military factions loyal to so and so storm the capital cities and oust the existing administration. On top of which, our laws and system of enforcing those laws, while imperfect, is as fair and just as any that has ever existed.
Times are changing, and our laws and the manner in which they are enforced will have to adapt accordingly. This will mean that the government will go too far with some of the laws that they pass and that the enforcers of those laws will be too broad in their own interpretation of some of these rules.
The beauty of our system is that it allows for mistakes to be identified and corrected. Prohibition didn't work, thus Prohibition was repealed. Likewise, many of the causes given for our fall from grace in The Polls will be fixed, in time. We are a young and evolving nation, and there is going to be some stumbling on the part of our leaders as we progress.
Thus, I am left with my belief that we live in a pretty great place even if we DID tie for 53rd in some goofy poll. |
|
Michael McNamara, Photo Editor, Photographer
 |
Lincoln | NE | USA | Posted: 5:02 PM on 12.06.06 |
->> Michael, I think you missed the point of the list. It doesn't rank countries as good places to live. It ranks countries by the restrictions, on the books or implied, that the working press faces.
If you look at their "contact us" page, you'd see that Reporters Without Borders isn't an organization of Americans pissing and moaning about the United States. It is based in Paris, and has offices in Austria, Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland.
"America, or the IDEA of America, is bigger than The President." You're right. The idea of America is based on freedom. And a big part of that is the freedom to publish the news without fear of reproach from the government. And it's too bad when we hold our system up as the ideal model of governance for the developing world, and the major international group of journalists says that America places more restrictions on the working press than 52 other countries. |
|
Eric Canha, Photographer
 |
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 5:27 PM on 12.06.06 |
->> My CATS eat safer and healthier food and drink cleaner and safer water than most PEOPLE in so many other places.
Sadly, your cat is eating and drinking better than some Americans living right here on our own soil.
But then again neither point has anything to do with the original post. |
|
Doug Holleman, Photographer
 |
Temple | TX | USA | Posted: 7:11 PM on 12.06.06 |
| ->> Where did Al Jazeera place on the list? |
|
Michael Fischer, Photographer
 |
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 7:33 PM on 12.06.06 |
->> Michael G -
Not to beat up on you, but there has been a chill over journalism in this country over the last 6 years. The saddest part is that none of it was necessary.
More to the point: Ask Americans how safe they feel today compare to any point preceeding 9/11. Many Americans feel less free today not because of terrorists, but because of their own government.
If you want to get a real eye-full, wander over to Flyertalk.com, a website frequented by yours truly, Steve Frichling and full of frequent flyers. If you want to read some interesting "stuff" head to the Omni section.
Let me relate one true story that actually happened to a flyertalk member. As you may be aware, small liquids must now be placed in a regulation plastic baggie and be available for TSA to easily inspect.
This frequent flyer wrote on his baggie "Kip Hawley is a idiot". He was pulled out of the line, given the fourth degree about it. When he responded that he had a constitutional right to free speech, he was informed by the TSA Supervisor, pointing outside of the airport that "you may out there. You don't in here." He was detained by TSA for several hours.
This is a absolutely true story. And who is Kip Hawley you ask? He is the head of TSA.
There are plenty of people like that supervisor running around right now, with power trips and badges that can make life difficult for the average American exercising his or her right to free speech. While this wasn't a journalist, it is a excellent illustration of how badly our freedoms have been challenged. This isn't a Republican or Democrat issue either - it's evil wrapped in an American flag working to deny YOUR freedoms.
53rd on the list? I'm happy we made it that high. Hopefully the new Congress will respond to the voters and end some of this insanity. |
|
D. Ross Cameron, Photographer
 |
Oakland | CA | USA | Posted: 8:52 PM on 12.06.06 |
->> Yeah! We're #53! Eat your heart out, Fiji!
Only *slightly* sarcastically,
DRC |
|
Walter Calahan, Photographer
|
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 9:04 PM on 12.06.06 |
->> "Where did Al Jazeera place on the list?"
Al Jazeera is not a country.
****
The middle class of most countries live about the same as the middle class of any country. India has about a billion people. 10% are considered middle class by world standards. That's 100 million people with some spending power. Now of the 300 million American's, how many are middle class?
****
What is the bench mark to judge if a poll created by "geniuses" is "goofy." I didn't learn that in statistics.
I bet you if you ask the IQ of the people who made this index, very few would measure up to genius level.
****
American - Love it or report about it. Grin. |
|
Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
 |
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 9:44 PM on 12.06.06 |
->> Ah, just wait until the impact of all those cell phone journalists is felt! That'll put us back up in the Top 25.
But maybe these guys use a system like the BCS. 53rd might not be so bad... |
|
Joe Cavaretta, Photographer
 |
Ft Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 11:29 PM on 12.06.06 |
->> I am happy and grateful to have been fortunate enough to have been born here in the USA...
However, an observation:
Sunday I photographed Venezuelans voting in thier presidential elections at the Orange Bowl in Miami. Stopped off at the media table on the way in, got a sticker, and was allowed to shoot whomever and whatever I wanted. It was a hot day and the consul provided bottled water for everyone in line and for the media also. The consul general was at the front of the line greeting everyone who came to vote, even though most of the ex-patriots who live here were voting against the Chavez government he represents.
On Nov. 7th, here in Broward County, I tried to photograph the mid-term elections. Here in Florida it is now a state crime to get closer than 500 feet to a polling place, and as soon as you get out of you car with cameras around your neck, a gaggle of zealous poll workers is there to greet you to make sure you are aware of the regulation. |
|
Fredrik Naumann, Photographer
 |
Oslo | Oslo | Norway | Posted: 9:26 AM on 12.07.06 |
->> I am not very surprised. I'd be more concerned about going to the US to photograph, than most other countries. Particularly since 9/11. Having read the numerous accounts of photographers being detained and questioned, harassed and/or generally feeling uncomfortable for simply photographing in public places. Permits and releases and whatnot, and if some security nut don't get you, a lawyer may sue your pants off. It actually costs me double for a liabilty insurance covering the world, if I want to include the US too.
For the record: I have lived a year in the US and visited quite a few times, as well as some 50+ other countries, so I am not entirely basing my concern on second hand information...
As for the best place to live - OT i know, but how can I resist? ;-) - have a look at the column on the right:
http://hdr.undp.org/hdr2006/statistics/
according to the webiste: "Each year since 1990 the Human Development Report has published the human development index (HDI) that looks beyond GDP to a broader definition of well-being." |
|
Mark Smith, Photographer
 |
Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 10:49 AM on 12.07.06 |
->> Yes, yes, the US is a terrible place to live and work, but look at it on the bright side, since we're so terrible, we don't have a problem with illegal immigrants trying to get in....oh, er, wait...nevermind.
Anyway, at least we know the report is unbiased. I mean, they are based in Paris, the cradle of objectivity concerning all things American. |
|
Geoff Miller, Photographer
 |
Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 11:22 AM on 12.07.06 |
->> "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"
Count me in on the group of people who doesn't give a rat's arse how the US does in a international PJ popularity contest.
You also gotta love the summary cite above for the poor showing.... So the administration not getting along well with the press represents a suppresion of press "freedom", that's an interesting definition. I also find it ironic that the only PJ, that I can recall, that's been jailed in the last year for not revealing a source was in a case where the prosecutor was investigating members of the staff of the "Oppressor-In-Chief".
Fredrik, don't take anecdotes you may read about the US and apply them to the whole country. The type of incidents you fear are very limited, imho, and have subsided in recent years as the memories of 9/11 have moved further into the past. Also, while we're on the topic, let me reassure you that despite what you might read about or see in movies, it's really quite possible to visit places like Detroit, New York City, or LA and have a great time and not be murdered in a hail of gun fire. |
|
Geoff Miller, Photographer
|
Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 11:27 AM on 12.07.06 |
->> (Too bad we don't have an edit feature...)
Fredrik, I missed the part about you having lived in the US for a year previously, but I hope you understand what I was trying to get at. |
|
Thierry Gourjon, Photographer
 |
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:53 AM on 12.07.06 |
->> Mark,
Out of curiosity, when was the last time you went to Frog Land? If you scroll down the list you'll see that France is #35, not exactly a great ranking either.
I wonder who is biased in this case....
T. |
|
Mark Smith, Photographer
|
Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 1:02 PM on 12.07.06 |
->> Thierry, it's been quite a few years. Has the general opinion toward the US improved substantially in the last decade or so?
Feel free to wonder about my bias, or lack thereof, but I'd be curious about from where you drew your conclusions. |
|
Thierry Gourjon, Photographer
|
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 2:20 PM on 12.07.06 |
->> ..."Anyway, at least we know the report is unbiased. I mean, they are based in Paris, the cradle of objectivity concerning all things American."...
Mark, I just read your words to come to my conclusion and honestly I don't really see how else I could have taken it. I am well aware that most of your posts have a humorous tone to them, and if you have read some of mine, they do too; and I am the first one to poke fun at the French when they deserve it (for the record, part of my family is French, I was born there and lived in Paris for 20 years); but somehow I thought it was a cheap shot and that you usually do better.
As to your question about how Americans are viewed there, just know that most of my semi-compatriots are able to differentiate the people in general from their government of the moment. It is true that they have a fairly low opinion of the actual administration and they were very puzzled by Bush's re-election, but it has never translated into a full blown anti America sentiment, at least in general (There are always morons everywhere regardless of nationality: I.e: The "well meaning" idiots who a few years ago, bought bottles of French wine to dump them on the streets here in NYC to protest the French position in regards to invading Iraq, or even better, the official switch from "French fries" to "Freedom fries"....)
In the days after 9/11, the headline on one of the biggest news paper in France was: "We are all Americans" or "We are all New Yorkers" (sorry can't remember which of the two it was and too lazy to do a search, that's the French in me.) Also, to my knowledge there are still French troops in Afghanistan helping in the fight against Al Qaeda/Talibans...
It is true that both governments do not like each other very much. Yet, if you do a little bit of research, you will find that for the past few years, one of the main partners in the fight against terrorism, the fight that should be fought, has been the dreaded French. A French envoy flies regularly to the US to meet with his American counterpart to assess the course of action. Ironically this is a little known fact; I only learnt about it while watching a Charlie Rose interview a few months back and then looked for more info on the subject. And as a final note, when Clinton travels there he is greeted as a rock star...
End of rant, I am now going to put my beret on, grab a baguette and a Gauloise (no filter) and wander the streets of NY yelling: "I surrender..."
Later,
T. |
|
Sam Santilli, Photographer
 |
Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 2:44 PM on 12.07.06 |
| ->> OK....so we were ranked not very high by peolpe who do not overly love us. At least we can discuss it here and all stay friends. Thierry...can you still smoke in NYC? |
|
Thierry Gourjon, Photographer
|
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 2:57 PM on 12.07.06 |
->> Sam,
Probably not for very much longer if Bloomberg has his way...
T. |
|
Michael Fischer, Photographer
|
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 3:05 PM on 12.07.06 |
->> Thiery is correct: The French people know enough to perhaps hate an administration, but when I was in Paris last March, I had a great time and never felt hated or dispised because I was an American. The French love Americans as a people - some of them aren't too wild about some of our leaders.
Of course, we could make the same statement about them... they have their challenges.
There are a lot worse places I can imagine being than Paris... heh heh heh. |
|
Mark Smith, Photographer
|
Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 3:10 PM on 12.07.06 |
->> Thierry,
Thanks for the chuckles.
Perhaps, my post is a bit more contextual and a bit less "cheap shot-like" when I admit that it was largely born of Michael McNamara's post. I'm not even attacking his post, just asserting my profound lack of certainty of objectivity, simply because the organization "...is based in Paris, and has offices in Austria, Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland." (Isn't Paris in France..they aren't based in Paris, TX, are they?)
Anyway, if my post was offensive, it was unintentional, as I save all of my intentional offensiveness, on every variety of topics, for private conversation and missives.
Incidently, I'm delighted to hear that Clinton is greeted as a rock star, one should be greeted according to their behavior (geez, it's a joke).
I'm proud to say that I've never ordered "freedom fries", however I don't think I've ordered "French" fries in years, either. This, of course is purely born of laziness (I have no French in me, that I know of) as simply ordering "fries" saves me a syllable at every turn.
Finally, and to avoid the dreaded "off-topic", it is my belief that tying the US with Botswana and Tonga is silly. I'm not offended by it, because I seldom am offended by silliness. Nonetheless, thus tying is evidence enough that the ranking is likely biased....at least that is the way I see it. |
|
Willis Glassgow, Photo Editor, Photographer
 |
Florence | SC | USA | Posted: 3:34 PM on 12.07.06 |
->> Folks,
I have been a PJ for over 14 years and have lived in 3 different countries in that time and reported in 14 countries. Mostly in Eastern Europe in the early to Mid-90's. After looking at the list, I would say that it was pretty accurate. Obviously this is my opinion, and everyone and anyone can disagree with it, but, honestlyI was surprised that the USA was ranked so HIGH. I was more harrassed in this country BEFORE 9/11 than in most Eastern European countries after the fall of communism. I sometimes had more journalistic freedom in Sarajevo during the war than sometimes here in the USA. Since 9/11, the overzealousness of the police has really been at an all time high and have been making the jobs of most PJ's much more difficult.
The problem with us Americans, is that we are a people of extremes. We flux from one extreme to the other and back in a very short time. As a journalist, that makes it very hard to know what you can or cannot do. The other problem is that many of us Americans are too quick to think that we are the BEST country in the world. Unfortunately many people who feel strongly about this opinion are the ones that have spent very little time or no time out of the USA and..... What make us the best? and why?....then again....who cares! As one who has lived many years both inside and outside the USA, there are advantages and disadvantages to the USA and of course all other countries in the world and there is no time to really discuss the details of each country. I wish I could combine many places together and make my ideal country, but hey, that is my fantasy.
As for the French. I think we as Americans should step back and look at how influential the French are and have been in the photojournalism world. Going there and dealing with the French agencies and their photographers is very eye opening. They are, (again in my opinion), the best in the world in photojournalism. And as for Reporters Without Borders. They are a fantastic organization and deserve all the credit they receive, and we all should heap this credit onto them, whether they are French or not. |
|
David Calvert, Student/Intern, Photographer
 |
Reno | NV | USA | Posted: 4:41 PM on 12.07.06 |
->> “The First Amendment is often inconvenient. But that is besides the point. Inconvenience does not absolve the government of its obligation to tolerate speech.” - Justice Anthony Kennedy
It's disappointing to see a report like this--call me a First Amendment junkie, but I certainly give a damn.
Although this report isn't a surprise, it is deplorable. We’re talking about the First Amendment. Fundamental freedoms, freedoms that, according to Reporters Without Borders are being eroded. And not just for the press but for everyone. If you need an example--Joe Cavaretta’s is an excellent one--look at Josh Wolf v. United States of America:
http://tinyurl.com/y9ddqq
Do you realize Wolf has been in jail for more than 100 days?
In an editorial, the San Francisco Chronicle (Aug., 2006) wrote, “He [Wolf] may not have the clout or journalism credentials of some of the other government targets, but Josh Wolf is no less entitled to First Amendment protection. Each day he remains incarcerated represents another small dent in this nation’s basic freedoms.”
Don’t you agree?
But there are more examples. How about the Patriot Act? Or when was the last time a judge imposed a prior restraint by sealing a courtroom unjustly? Or withheld documents?
Judith Miller anyone?
http://tinyurl.com/ycdqkg
It’s not about what she wrote or who she wrote about, it’s about the common law affects.
Some of us are lucky enough to live in states with shield laws.
http://tinyurl.com/ybgrdk
But where is our Federal protection? How effectively would the modern media cover the Watergate scandal? And for that matter, who actually owns our notes, outtakes?
Don't blame the government entirely though.
Unethical behavior undermines our credibility. And without credibility, the government and the judiciary are more likely to impose regulations that further hinder us. Think about the lasting affects of the media's coverage of the murder trial of Dr. Sam Sheppard.
http://tinyurl.com/yncu3j
We also have an economic responsibility to the First Amendment. I have a journalism professor and friend who will often ask, “When was the last time you read the Brooklyn Eagle or the Los Angeles Herald-Examiner with your morning coffee?”
http://tinyurl.com/yczxpw
It's hard to protect the First Amendment when newspapers are merging, downsizing and disappearing.
Jeremy, we have a very healthy "First Amendment protected" discussion going on here. Thank you for making this report available to this community.
I love this stuff,
David |
|
Chris Jordan, Photographer
 |
Whtiefish | MT | United States | Posted: 6:42 PM on 12.08.06 |
->> geoff -
josh wolf has been in jail for 110 days for refusing to turn over video of a protest to authorities. he is a questionable journalist, but he should still be protected by ca. shield laws.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/08/0...
lots of info on josh wolf at -
http://www.penpressclub.org
for the record i am a card holding member of reporters without borders. the work they do, such as advocating for imprisoned journalists and fighting for press freedom, is extremely important. they take this report very seriously, and i doubt that the intention of the group is to bash the U.S.
hope all is well,
chris jordan
http://www.cjorphoto.com |
|
|| Sponsor Special Deals
Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM Autofocus
|
Available from:
Samy's Camera
|
Price: $1999.95 |
Notes:
Incorporating Canon's second generation Image Stabilization technology, this telephoto zoom responds in as little at 0.5 seconds, while providing up to three stops of correction for camera shake. Its AF system has been refined for better response time and tracking speed.
|
|
-- More Info -- |
|
Return to --> Message Board Main Index
|